Ankh Decoded

a reply to: Dalamax

Used to set out the Great Pyramid, its length measures 524mm, or 0.524m. metricviews.uk...

try again

originally posted by: Mike27
a reply to: Dalamax

Used to set out the Great Pyramid, its length measures 524mm, or 0.524m. metricviews.uk...

try again

Apologies for taking a time with my link dude.

Previous post has been updated.

There’s a couple of YouTube videos on it as well but I’m not sure how sensationalist they are.

a reply to: Dalamax

I dont have time to watch videos. I'd rather read.
So for every two cubits per meter you would, you would gain 48mm.

www.civilgeo.com...

Lol. They’re iffy veracity is why I didn’t put one up, but they’re there.

My last post previous page has the details of how the cubit relates to the meter.

I get the inkling that there is a reason these measurements relate to the world around us.

Sometimes I wonder if the expanding earth theory is something and the GP was built as a snapshot of the dimensions for someone in the far off future.

a reply to: Mike27

a reply to: Dalamax

The numbers are just cherry picking. If it wasn't don't you think they would have made the meter 524mm or a multiple there of. and|or used something in Egypt for the basis of the meter.

Here is another cherry picking example which uses the passages of the great pyramid as a historical timeline.

I guess. There is something in Pythagoras theorem an angle and a known length of two sides giving an unknown length (the remaining side)

And the 1 second interval in the swing of a 1 meter pendulum at 30 degrees giving the 52cm length of the cubit?

Dunno, my understanding of mathematics is to shallow to make a concrete conclusion.

a reply to: Mike27

originally posted by: Mike27
a reply to: Byrd

It's easy to make a simple solar observatory. Here's an example made from everyday garbage. I'm sure a creative ancient egyptian engineer could come up with something similar.

Now it is an exercise for The Mystical Spiral to find the mislabeled artifact(s).

Love those. We made one for the last solar eclipse and shared it with people in the park (where we gathered to get a good view of the eclipse.)

The real issue I see here is that it's difficult to make an observatory with one; you have to keep adjusting the angle to get a good view of the sun. I thought about using my telescope, but it's old and I couldn't find a solar lens that I liked. Later gave it to my son, but with the upcoming eclipse next year I may ask him to dig it up and to find a good filter for it so we can look at the eclipse more closely.

a reply to: Dalamax

That was the standard for a while until they discovered that it didn't work quite right.

Seconds Pendulum

A seconds pendulum is a pendulum whose period is precisely two seconds; one second for a swing in one direction and one second for the return swing, a frequency of 0.5 Hz.

Meter - Pendulum or meridian

In 1671, Jean Picard measured the length of a "seconds pendulum" and proposed a unit of measurement twice that length to be called the universal toise (French: Toise universelle). In 1675, Tito Livio Burattini suggested the term metre for a unit of length based on a pendulum length, but then it was discovered that the length of a seconds pendulum varies from place to place.

The base12 measurements we still use today, feet and inches, 24 hour clocks, 60 minute hours, 360 degree circles, meridian coordinates, etc, come from Sumeria. Egypt adopted their system later.

The origins of the number 60 as a counting method

Less obvious is the reason for using the number 60, a number still widely used today with 60 seconds in a minute, 60 minutes in an hour, 60 minutes of arc in one degree of angle and six times that number of degrees, 360, in a circle.

The numerical system based on 60 originated with the Sumerian civilization, 4500 years ago. Sumer was located in what is now the southern part of Iraq. It is thought the number 60 is related to the origin of the number 12, which is the number of joints on 4 fingers of a hand, the thumb being free to count.

Five repeated hand counts delivers the number 60 which was used as the base for counting large numbers. Scholars of ancient history think that the finger-joint counting pioneered by the Sumerians explains why much of the ancient world based their numerical systems on 12 and multiples of 12, such as 24 and 60.

This system was handed down to the Babylonians, another ancient civilization that emerged just north of Sumer on the banks of the Euphrates river about 600 years after the Sumerians.

...

About 3500 years ago the Egyptian civilization became the dominant civilization and they embraced the duodecimal system (base 12).

So if you look at it objectively the English (SAE) measurements have more to do with Ancient Egypt than the metric system.

originally posted by: Mike27
a reply to: The Mystical Spiral

honestly, i think this would a better fit in one of the following;
conspiracies in religions
origins and creationism
philosophy and metaphysics
people won't ask for as much supporting material.

philosophy and metaphysics might be the best.

I'd agree, though Conspiracies in Religion is also a strong place for it. I think Creationism is a weaker forum for this kind of discussion - and would advise completely avoiding Space. It could be moved to Metaphysics or a new topic started there.

This forum, prowled by the occasional real life historian and at least one archaeologist (and others) is not going to be a good match for "let's just all agree and explore this idea of mine", particularly if there's no historical or archaeological sources that support it.

originally posted by: The Mystical Spiral
www.instagram.com...
The akh and Ankh


a reply to: Byrd

(eyes the link) There's a picture of an Akh, a picture of something that might be the "kh" sound drawn at a strange angle and what looks to be the sun with descending solar rays (not ankhs) taken from one of the Dendera astronomical ceilings.

Not a single ankh there.

First question: Where is this from? What temple/papyrus/etc? You've got a lot more material than I do in your libraries, so could you please give me a source where this drawing (since it's not an actual photo of material) comes from?

Second question: The ancient Egyptians didn't just scribble out a few characters like this and nothing else unless it was on an ostrika. Where's the rest of the text? The sun, as I said, makes me think it's Dendera but I don't see anything like it on a quick perusal of the ceilings.

Since there should be hieroglyphic texts associated with it, I'd like to be able to eyeball them and see what they say and why they presumably support your claim (though, as I said, there's no ankh there.)

originally posted by: Dalamax
I guess. There is something in Pythagoras theorem an angle and a known length of two sides giving an unknown length (the remaining side)

And the 1 second interval in the swing of a 1 meter pendulum at 30 degrees giving the 52cm length of the cubit?

Dunno, my understanding of mathematics is to shallow to make a concrete conclusion.

a reply to: Mike27

They knew how to calculate slopes, though they gave them as 'seked' (rise divided by run.)

Their clocks (water clocks, called clepsydras) couldn't measure seconds and were 'iffy' in measuring minutes. There's a discussion around here somewhere (I think it was on this board) where we went into clocks and time measurements and looked at the really weird tweaking they had to do with their clepsydra clocks to be able to measure the changing length of the night.

If you're absolutely DESPERTE for reading that will have you falling asleep in no time, let me know and I'll find a link to one of the better books that was mentioned in that thread.

Ahhahaaha. I’m not that bad an insomniac thanks Byrd

a reply to: Byrd

To Mike27, cheers that’s interesting that the swing varies from place to place... there can’t be that many variables involved.

Appreciate the time to post

originally posted by: Dalamax

How, on Earth, did the pyramid builders define light through a vacuum to 8 decimal places?

IDK.

More than that, how did they define it... when they didn't have decimal fractions?

I got into this argument on another board and had to work out how to write that number in hieroglyphs. Egyptians used something called "unit fractions" - they had special symbols for 1/2, 1/3, and 2/3 but for everything else they combined fractions -- 3/4ths was usually 1/2 + 1/4.

Actually, here's a really GREAT page on Egyptian math (don't worry. This isn't an eyeball-hurting page) and shows just how difficult it would be to write out that number.

Go take a gander at it and then try to imagine doing any sort of calculating with it!

They could, and it was really cumbersome, but they only worked with fairly small numbers (I don't see any math problem where they were calculating things with a value of 10,000 or more... it could be done but the chances for error were VERY high with juggling all those symbols.)




...and that's why the Satire of the Trades said "forget all those other professions - go be a scribe. People will PAY good money for you to sit and write and even do this kind of math for them."

a reply to: Byrd

Thanks for the explanation at the top of page 6, Byrd. I've missed all of that backstory.

originally posted by: Dalamax
Ahhahaaha. I’m not that bad an insomniac thanks Byrd

a reply to: Byrd

To Mike27, cheers that’s interesting that the swing varies from place to place... there can’t be that many variables involved.

Appreciate the time to post

(evil grin) Are you SURRRRREEEE you don't need something for insomnia?

Mike, I'm sure, will give you the lowdown on pendulum swings - engineers are good with explanations like that. For more fun, if you hang a second pendulum on the bottom of the first and swing them you get a chaotic (mathematical term) pattern. It's called a "chaos pendulum."

originally posted by: Dalamax
a reply to: Mike27
I guess. There is something in Pythagoras theorem an angle and a known length of two sides giving an unknown length (the remaining side)

It just defines a right triangle.
Here is a real world application; Getting Square with the 3:4:5 Triangle

And the 1 second interval in the swing of a 1 meter pendulum at 30 degrees giving the 52cm length of the cubit?

The coordinates of the great pyramid are 29.9 792° N, 31.1342° E,

30°N puts you at 30° N 31.1342° E

So the 30°N figure has been cherry picked to fit the duration of the seconds pendulum.

No one notices because;
It was presented nicely.
It ~almost~ fits.
No one likes to do their homework (research).
and, People like a good story.

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: Dalamax

How, on Earth, did the pyramid builders define light through a vacuum to 8 decimal places?

IDK.

I got into this argument on another board and had to work out how to write that number in hieroglyphs. Egyptians used something called "unit fractions" - they had special symbols for 1/2, 1/3, and 2/3 but for everything else they combined fractions -- 3/4ths was usually 1/2 + 1/4.

Actually, here's a really GREAT page on Egyptian math (don't worry. This isn't an eyeball-hurting page) and shows just how difficult it would be to write out that number.

The table is from a different page, but where are the rest of the single digits for base12 (A and B), that table is base10 ...

a reply to: The Mystical Spiral

Ta am enjoying this. Like the crist cross can be folded into a cube is this a possibility also for the Ankh, but done differingly ?

originally posted by: Mike27

The table is from a different page, but where are the rest of the single digits for base12 (A and B), that table is base10 ...

Oookayyy.... now we've got to talk about writing and language. And math.

Language first, then the math.

The writing you see there (which might look (falsely) a little bit like Arabic) is something called "demotic." It's the "cursive" form of ancient Egyptian, used in the Nile Delta (the farthest north point) and influenced somewhat by other written languages in the area. In terms of "ancient" it dates to around 600 BC or thereabouts.

It's a simpler form of the written language, but it's not the oldest.

It develops from something called "hieratic" - think of it as being similar to cursive writing of today. Hieratic is an old form of hieroglyphs, suitable for writing on papyri. Formal hieroglyphs (which are like the printed form of our alphabet) is the writing on monuments.

Just as today we would write a letter in cursive (well, us old folks would) or take notes in cursive. When they put writing on street signs and on buildings and formal documents, however, we use a printed typeface for clarity.

So that's demotic, hieratic, and hieroglyphs. Hieratic is pretty hard to read, too, because it's handwritten. Hieroglyphs are much easier. I haven't yet tried to read demotic or hieratic.

Here's a link to how the numbers were written in hieroglyphs and as you see it takes 18 individual signs to write out what we write in five signs: 46206


Now - on to the math.

As we can see from the math problems in the Rhind Mathematical Papyrus they actually calculated in base 10. So 12 would be the sign for 10 plus two hash (staff) marks.

Unlike base 12, you won't see a single sign for eleven or for twelve.

Wolfram-Alpha, the large mathematical site, has more information about the math Be warned that they're talking math, so There Be Formulas Here!

originally posted by: 13Kiwi20qYes
a reply to: The Mystical Spiral

Ta am enjoying this. Like the crist cross can be folded into a cube is this a possibility also for the Ankh, but done differingly ?

I don't know if Mystical will be back, so let me give you the answer: it's "no, it can't be transformed into a cube."

So... how do I know?

It has to do with a branch of math related to geometry - a branch called "topology." And if you think math is strange, well... hold on to your hat because topology gets REALLY strange. I'm not going into the strange parts, but one of the things they ask is "how do you transform shapes?"

Let's take a coffee cup and ask "what's the simplest form? What's the most basic shape that you can have that makes a coffee cup?

Pause a second and think about it while I put in a bunch of spaces and then give the answer.

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It's a donut.

Surprised?

A coffee cup has the handle (the part with the hole) and the cup part (you make a dent in one wall of the donut.

The first 1 minute 30 seconds of this video shows you how a straw and a coffee cup are equivalent to a donut

The ankh has one hole and a shape on the side that you can think of as being pulled out of one side. So an ankh is (topologically) a donut.