6 year old shoots his teacher

a reply to: chr0naut

Yes, i know you dont like us having guns. And my answer is the same now as its always been.

I dont care.

Guns arent going away but we can do better with culture as well as education and training which Ive stood behind for years.

This is extremely sad, but not a sign of gun issues. Rather a sign of parental issues and at a broader look, societal issues. The kid would have harmed his teacher one way or another, why is that? What are the kids parents teaching them? Why was this child's first instinct to kill? How did they acquire a gun that should usually be under lock and key?

Remember, taking away law abiding citizens the right to bear arms means you give the criminals an advantage. They WILL ALWAYS have access to firearms.

a reply to: Hypntick
I say it does.

And now?

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: AOx6179

The culture both glorifies firearms, and makes them highly available.

There is no mystery here.

Agreed.

What is more, there is the ofttimes argument from many gun advocates that "an unloaded gun, locked in a safe, is of little use in an emergency". One of the reasons, supposedly, that so many are in support of both open, and concealed, carry laws.

Kids learn more, and faster, by imitation than by instruction.

Always have.

And, as long as that is true, No amount of "gun safety training" will stem the tide of gun violence as long as what you have stated remains true.

originally posted by: nolabel
a reply to: AOx6179
I've spent the last 15 minutes trying to post this.

The BIG question is "How the hell did a six year old kid get hold of a gun and then walk into school with it?"

The next question is "How f**king negligent are the kids parents to allow a loaded gun to be within easy reach of a child and not notice he went to school with it?"

Expect all the pro-gun lobby along very soon to say how responsible they are.
Can't wait to see their excuses for this. All the same crap they spout out after any shooting that attracts the general publics attention.

I expect to either get shot down in flames or just get shot by the pro-gun lobby.

Please be respectful with your replies.

I don't have to make excuses for these people. I have nothing to do with them or the mistakes they made. Its not my place to make excuses for them and its not your place to blame me for their actions.

BTW, when you say things like "I expect to get shot down in flames or just get shot by the pro-gun lobby" you pretty much give up the right to "Please be respectful with your replies." If you want people to be respectful don't throw insults like that around.

Its actions like yours right here on this thread that are in some ways at least partly to blame for the violence we see every day. I know, of course you did nothing wrong. Making incendiary comments guaranteed to insult and anger people is your right. And you are upset so being rude and insulting is just collateral damage and not your fault. And if someone takes the bait and gets angry - its their fault, not yours. Its the idea that you can be as rude offensive and insulting as you want and shouldn't have any consequences as a result because you are angry. The perfect victim-Karen setup. "Cant you see how upset I am? That means I must be right!"

That having been said, its a long way to go from being angry to shooting someone. The younger a person is, the shorter that distance. When I was younger growing up in Chicago if you saw a kid do something stupid and you laughed that was the end of it. Today, you don't laugh at that kid because he will probably shoot you. I am talking about kids, children, ten year olds. This is not a racial issue but it would be disingenuous to ignore the fact that the greater majority of these crimes happen in predominantly black communities. Guns are far more pervasive in these communities than respect for life is. There are also white people in these communities and their attitudes and behaviors are the same. It really isn't about race or skin color. Its not the skin color of the shooter, its the values of the community that matter.

There is a growing segment of society that is not troubled by this type of thing unless it affects them directly. You won't hear a word from them until either the victim or the shooter is a family member. Then they are all over television screaming about it. And even then its nothing but denial and demands.

It might be well worth understanding that this generation of children is the first to grow up in a society where blm and antifa are household words. When someone says black lives matter it is understood as implying that white lives don't matter. If they all matter - why distinguish between one and the other with that statement? Why not just say Life Matters? Isn't that the message we want to be sending anyway?

The result of this tragedy will be democrats shouting about banning assault rifles!! Even though it was a .32 caliber handgun that was used. It wasn't an assault rifle. It didn't have a high capacity magazine. It wasn't a high power firearm. But that is what we will hear about in the news. That and how republicans don't care about life...while democrats are demanding the right to abortions and importing hundreds of thousands of criminals from third world countries.

In other words, the underlying theme here is: mixed messages do not solve problems, they create them. Don't imply one life is worth more than another and then become outraged when someone acts accordingly. Don't sling insults and expect respectful responses. Don't ignore a real problem in favor of politically expedient canned outrage.

a reply to: TDDAgain

Why is the media responsible for what a parent chooses to do? It's not the responsibility of the media to parent children; that's on the parents. As much as I hate the media, this is not a violent media issue.

a reply to: Hypntick

It isn't responsibility of the media to parent children, no.

That being said, if there wasn't such a glorification of violence everywhere, the parents would not have to deal with the fallout. You can not hide it from the children either as a parent.

YOUR problem however is that you read every single sentence I write as an absolute. You already decided to focus on my first paragraph while you ignore everything else I wrote and refuse to take it into context.

This is your issue, not mine. I said everything I had to, have a nice day.

Question.

In our entire history of humanity, when was violence not glorified please?

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: chr0naut

Yes, i know you dont like us having guns. And my answer is the same now as its always been.

I dont care.

Guns arent going away but we can do better with culture as well as education and training which Ive stood behind for years.

I am not advocating a blanket ban on all guns, for all people.

Clearly there are some firearms types that should be restricted (high capacity automatic and semi-automatic weapons).

And there are some people who should not be allowed to carry and use firearms (those dealing with psychological issues, and/or those with a felony, drug addiction, or previous firearm misuse on record).

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

originally posted by: nolabel
a reply to: AOx6179
I've spent the last 15 minutes trying to post this.

The BIG question is "How the hell did a six year old kid get hold of a gun and then walk into school with it?"

The next question is "How f**king negligent are the kids parents to allow a loaded gun to be within easy reach of a child and not notice he went to school with it?"

Expect all the pro-gun lobby along very soon to say how responsible they are.
Can't wait to see their excuses for this. All the same crap they spout out after any shooting that attracts the general publics attention.

I expect to either get shot down in flames or just get shot by the pro-gun lobby.

Please be respectful with your replies.

I don't have to make excuses for these people. I have nothing to do with them or the mistakes they made. Its not my place to make excuses for them and its not your place to blame me for their actions.

BTW, when you say things like "I expect to get shot down in flames or just get shot by the pro-gun lobby" you pretty much give up the right to "Please be respectful with your replies." If you want people to be respectful don't throw insults like that around.

Its actions like yours right here on this thread that are in some ways at least partly to blame for the violence we see every day. I know, of course you did nothing wrong. Making incendiary comments guaranteed to insult and anger people is your right. And you are upset so being rude and insulting is just collateral damage and not your fault. And if someone takes the bait and gets angry - its their fault, not yours. Its the idea that you can be as rude offensive and insulting as you want and shouldn't have any consequences as a result because you are angry. The perfect victim-Karen setup. "Cant you see how upset I am? That means I must be right!"

That having been said, its a long way to go from being angry to shooting someone. The younger a person is, the shorter that distance. When I was younger growing up in Chicago if you saw a kid do something stupid and you laughed that was the end of it. Today, you don't laugh at that kid because he will probably shoot you. I am talking about kids, children, ten year olds. This is not a racial issue but it would be disingenuous to ignore the fact that the greater majority of these crimes happen in predominantly black communities. Guns are far more pervasive in these communities than respect for life is. There are also white people in these communities and their attitudes and behaviors are the same. It really isn't about race or skin color. Its not the skin color of the shooter, its the values of the community that matter.

There is a growing segment of society that is not troubled by this type of thing unless it affects them directly. You won't hear a word from them until either the victim or the shooter is a family member. Then they are all over television screaming about it. And even then its nothing but denial and demands.

It might be well worth understanding that this generation of children is the first to grow up in a society where blm and antifa are household words. When someone says black lives matter it is understood as implying that white lives don't matter. If they all matter - why distinguish between one and the other with that statement? Why not just say Life Matters? Isn't that the message we want to be sending anyway?

The result of this tragedy will be democrats shouting about banning assault rifles!! Even though it was a .32 caliber handgun that was used. It wasn't an assault rifle. It didn't have a high capacity magazine. It wasn't a high power firearm. But that is what we will hear about in the news. That and how republicans don't care about life...while democrats are demanding the right to abortions and importing hundreds of thousands of criminals from third world countries.

In other words, the underlying theme here is: mixed messages do not solve problems, they create them. Don't imply one life is worth more than another and then become outraged when someone acts accordingly. Don't sling insults and expect respectful responses. Don't ignore a real problem in favor of politically expedient canned outrage.

Anger is the most primal emotion we have and the healthiest when in check. It lets us know of danger and it is evolved in our dna at this point. So yes, anger isn't the issue as much as "unbridled anger."
Some good points were made here (on a generalized view) about how we have gotten to a point where "being right" and "winning" the conversation, so "everybody can see how awesome we are" is yes, part of the problem as a whole. We are insulting each other here about the differences of our views. WE, te adults, need to relearn and teach our kids that a different opinion is okay and a good thing. A necessary part of our existing and growth. We have all started forcing our opinions on each other. Not just here.... everywhere. These are absolutely the foundation of the issues that need to be addressed.

Love, mercy and compassion are dyibg away. Why? What happened to us? Life sucks for all of us in some way. I'll admit I am part of the problem because right now and for a long while, I haven't been part of the solution.
We are to blame here. All of us. We're not all raising murderers, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying, look at us, we are arguing and not solving.

Marinate on that for a minute.....

originally posted by: ManSizedSquirrel
a reply to: AOx6179

Fixing the home and fixing mental health would probably fix most of this. Good kids, from good homes, with mental stability (with parents helping them through their issues if any), with a solid support system don’t commit these crimes. It’s almost impossible to fix that now. Nobody EVER wants to talk about those issues. That’s why you have six year olds bringing guns to school. Taking away a normal adults ability to own a weapon will never fix the issue, it starts at home.

Unaddressed and addressed mental illness is indeed a problem. We have had an ongoing and growing problem with the homeless which a good number are mentally ill. The age of the mentally ill homeless person is getting younger every year. I had three patient's this week that were mentally ill and lived on the streets, by choice. Ages 18 to 26.

We treat them and have no choice but to send them back to the streets, because they refuse shelter or placement in support homes. Most, even if you can get them to go for a night, usually leave and do not return in about a day. I admit. I don't know the answer. I know that the mental institutions were horrible dens of evil when they existed, that is why they were abandoned. Reestablishing them would not solve that problem, in fact it would be probably 10 times worse.

I know families that have spent thousands of dollars trying to help their mentally ill child with no success. They can't lock them in their room, and the moment the mood hits them they are gone. Weeks, sometimes months go by before they get the call from the police. They go pick up their child and they bring him/her home and in a few days, the cycle begins again.

A never ending story with no workable resolution.

The classroom problem is usually not an issue of mental illness. It is straight up a lack of parenting. I will be the first to admit that parenting is not easy and it becomes more difficult with every downward dip we have in our culture and society. You have to choose if you want to spend your time, money, and efforts, in keeping your child out of trouble or if you want to spend your time, money, and efforts, in getting your child out of trouble.

a reply to: JinMI

Just in case you adressed me because you didn't use reply function to any specific member and it's directly under my post:

Violence has been glorified before, but it got exceptional gory in the last twenty years. Movies like SAW and Hostel broke a lot of taboos. GTA5 online... I played it for years on XBOX and you are lucky to find and adult to play with, it's all underage kids.

And the companies like MS, SONY and other console manufacturers give a # about it. First line of defense should be the parents, however you can not hide it from the children anymore like it used to be. I have a small daughter and I experience this daily. And I am not talking about Tiger wants to eat Mogli (Djungle Book) type of violence. And it does not stop with violence, grown adults in pampers, LGBTQ and whatnot.

And it's not the parents pushing this on the children, it's the media, politics, Hollywood and greed in general.

a reply to: chr0naut

Clearly there are some firearms types that should be restricted (high capacity automatic and semi-automatic weapons).

First, explain to me what high capacity magazines are.

Then give me your best effort as to why we the people shouldnt have the same arms as law enforcement and military. Based on the constitution.

Ill read it, promise.

a reply to: TDDAgain

Its an open question.

When in history has violence not been glorified?

The medium may change, but the access has always been there.

They will blame the gun of course, but the problem is helicopter parenting.

if parents arent involved in the childs life they will miss the signs and terrible stuff will happen and not a law you can dream up will prevent things like this.

How old do you have to be to buy an Xbox, or PlayStation (any such video game consoles)?

Just curious seeing as they are so violent and cause such bad things...there has to be an age limit!

Are there laws to prohibit these children from access to such violence (if not can we get some passed)?

How about a background check before we sell these things (video game consoles), in case the buyer is a drug addict, violent offender, mentally unstable, or a criminal?

Maybe these types of violent crimes can be stopped!

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn

originally posted by: ManSizedSquirrel
a reply to: AOx6179

Fixing the home and fixing mental health would probably fix most of this. Good kids, from good homes, with mental stability (with parents helping them through their issues if any), with a solid support system don’t commit these crimes. It’s almost impossible to fix that now. Nobody EVER wants to talk about those issues. That’s why you have six year olds bringing guns to school. Taking away a normal adults ability to own a weapon will never fix the issue, it starts at home.

Unaddressed and addressed mental illness is indeed a problem. We have had an ongoing and growing problem with the homeless which a good number are mentally ill. The age of the mentally ill homeless person is getting younger every year. I had three patient's this week that were mentally ill and lived on the streets, by choice. Ages 18 to 26.

We treat them and have no choice but to send them back to the streets, because they refuse shelter or placement in support homes. Most, even if you can get them to go for a night, usually leave and do not return in about a day. I admit. I don't know the answer. I know that the mental institutions were horrible dens of evil when they existed, that is why they were abandoned. Reestablishing them would not solve that problem, in fact it would be probably 10 times worse.

I know families that have spent thousands of dollars trying to help their mentally ill child with no success. They can't lock them in their room, and the moment the mood hits them they are gone. Weeks, sometimes months go by before they get the call from the police. They go pick up their child and they bring him/her home and in a few days, the cycle begins again.

A never ending story with no workable resolution.

The classroom problem is usually not an issue of mental illness. It is straight up a lack of parenting. I will be the first to admit that parenting is not an easy and it becomes more difficult with every downward dip we have in our culture and society. You have to choose if you want to spend your time, money, and efforts, in keeping your child out of trouble or if you want to spend your time, money, and efforts, in getting your child out of trouble.

Thank you Nightsky, I appreciate you sharing about the mental health aspect. I learned recently, after having my own bout of overwhelmed beyond what I had ever known before. I was unraveling and knew I needed to get myself in check. I checked myself into a hospital with the hopes of getting so e counseling or time to regroup and take care of what I was feeling. But what I learned is this is another broken system that really does no real good for the issues. I was locked alone in a room under 24hour surveillance. No help. Just kinda locked me in solitary confinement, which was only making it worse. I knew I need to "get some things off my chest" and needed some guidance on how the heck I was going to deal with what I had to deal with. But after 3 days of that I checked out. Apparently the waiting list to get in anywhere was so long it might've been a month before I got into anywhere. I noticed it was all men my age. Middle aged men of every race. And they all looked beaten down in their very souls. All men was caught my attention, and all within I'd say a 35-45 year range. Apparently it's not quite that bad for the woman to get into a mental health facility right now because there's room. I was told we are having a mental health pandemic, and especially in men around my age.
So, I back up to what I said, if we the adults are breaking down, and we can't even get help to fix ourselves, then how the hell are we gonna be able to handle all these issues with our kids?
I'm starting to think there is no solution. This is going to continue, and get worse.
I've been thinking about the next generation that's about to be born. I can't even imagine how bad they are going to have it. And for me....that's our grandbabies.

I'm starting to wish I hadn't posted this because it really seems like all hope is lost with this. We're going to have to continue watching 6 year olds being charged with murder.
No worries, just the new norm.

Sigh

REEE guns R baaaad.

Then proceeds to give weakest arguments known to man. literal talking head npc responses.

a reply to: JinMI
Then let's talk about the amount of access to violence, that sure has changed a lot in the last twenty years. And as a parent you can not always helicopter your child. That's one reason the TV stays off most of the year, even on dedicated children channels you will have utter crap and also violence.

I am talking in general, not about this case. Too less known yet and we will probably never know because after all it's a six year old child. First of all the parent that didn't make sure the firearm is safely stored away are to blame but then we have to ask the question what role the environment played, too.

I owned guns before and was active in the local shooting club for years. This topic is so heated and emotional for many, I feel I have to address this. Because it seems for many here it's just 1/0 black/white issue. Either full trottle or idle. With or against me.

Life isn't like this.

I need more guns, so I can protect myself from the six year olds of the world.