6 year old shoots his teacher

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: iamthevirus

I reject that.

Crime is not a result of race, period. Crime is a result of culture. Almost all of the mass shootings in recent years have been by Caucasians.

Take away hope for a better life from any one people, of any skin color, any nationality, any race, any creed, and one sets the foundation for a crime-riddled, failing culture of violence.

TheRedneck

You are right. I worked in an area where the demo was 93% white and 1% black. There were more Asians than blacks in that area, and Asians usually come in last in the demos. It was poor, alcohol and drugs were too common, and crime and assaults were the activity of the day.

Not saying that rich people don't abuse drugs or alcohol, or don't commit crimes. We know that they are the kingpins when it comes to crimes of all sorts. The difference is that they can afford to wash their hands.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

Crime is a people problem, not a race problem, directly linked to poverty and deprivation.

Well, most crimes anyway far as i can establish.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
By the way, another thing that just occurred to me... we are hearing a lot about the mother (it was her gun, she's lawyered up, etc.) but not one word about the father? Where is the father in all this?

Sounds like this kid came from a broken home on top of everything else.

Can we talk about this? It's just not possible for any single parent, be they male or female, to raise a child by themselves. Just cannot be done. Either they will be unable to make a reasonable living to provide for the child, or the child will suffer from a lack of attention. Heck, it's hard enough to do in a two-parent home with both parents working!

And before anyone takes that wrong, yes, it has happened... but it is the exception, not the rule. Children form broken homes typically are either poorer or have more social issues than those from two-parent homes.

Bottom line: if we expect to raise well-adjusted children, we have to go back to the nuclear family construct and allow people to make a living wage so it's no longer absolutely necessary for both parents to work outside the home.

So far, it seems we have a headstrong child from a broken, single-parent home (hence the child is going to be headstrong), not living in poverty but then probably suffering from a lack of attention (more indication of why the child is headstrong), a mother who is uneducated in the finer points of firearm safety (education issue) who inadvertently allows the child to take her new handgun to school, where he shows it off to his friends (taboo effect, which I have mentioned many times as part and parcel of the education issue), and is only versed in the use of it enough to know, from TV, movies, and video games, to point and pull the trigger to make people stop what they are doing (education issue again).

That's two, only two issues, that led to this tragedy. Resolving either one could have stopped this: had the father been an integral part of the child's life, chances are the child would not be as headstrong and would not have wanted to take the gun. If he had still wanted to take the gun, there would have been two people to watch him instead of one. If the mother had been better versed in firearm safety, she would not have left the gun idle with a chambered round and pulling the trigger would have had no effect. If the child had been better familiar with firearms, he would likely not have been as excited to break the rules and take that "cool" gun to school to show his buddies.

What would not have prevented this tragedy is

• More regulations on firearms... the mother went through all the proper channels and obtained the gun legally
  
• Stricter background checks... there was nothing in her background to indicate a problem.
  
• Requiring a gun safe to be used... we have no indication one wasn't used and the kid didn't just find the key. Also, the woman obviously bought the gun for a specific reason, and since it is a self-defense gun that reason can be assumed to be crime. Having a gun in a gun safe, as I have already said several times, means it is useless for self-defense. Even if it was on her person, that could mean it was in her purse, which a headstrong child can open and retrieve the gun from.
  
• Stricter punishments... the child at age 6 had no concept of going to jail for shooting his teacher. Kids at that age don't think about such things.

We're going to have to take the hard paths back to a freer and more polite society if we want to stop the killing. There is no other way.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

I'm still chomping at the bit to hear what the teacher has to say when she wakes up.

As the two-parent dilemma.

Well by my guess, two parents and indeed better than one, just like one parent is better than none.

Attention/time/and money wise, far as i can establish at least as a rule of thumb.

a reply to: andy06shake

There was a time when it was common for one parent (usually the man) to work outside the home and the other (usually the woman) to stay home for the kids. I have absolutely nothing with a couple changing those roles, or women working, or whatever one wishes to do... but we should at least be honest about the consequences.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Well if there is no parent at home i really can't see how they are supposed to parent TheRedneck.

I agree wholeheartedly that one parent should remain at home, no matter which one that may be.

I wish the world felt the same way through.

Because the fact of the matter is without both parents working full-time, it's kind of hard to pay the rent/mortgage nevermind keep the lights on for most in this day of age.

It's one of those catch-22 situations where unless you are of means, compromises are going to have to be made if people wish the roof to remain above their heads.

When i was a lad that's what grandparents were for to a certain degree, don't wanna sound agist all the same.

a reply to: andy06shake

Well if there is no parent at home i really can't see how they are supposed to parent TheRedneck.

That's my point. They can't.

Because the fact of the matter is without both parents working full-time, it's kind of hard to pay the rent/mortgage nevermind keep the lights on for most in this day of age.

And that is what needs to change.

I could get into how we have replaced faith in ourselves and others with faith in money, but that's for another thread.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Well im £690pcm in rent, and probably about another £300pcm for gas and leckie.

Then there is food, phone bills, and all sorts of other things that cost cold hard cash monies pertaining to bringing up two kids which is probably about another £500-£700pcm.

Without both me and my partner contributing everything we make to the household, we would not be able to survive.

Im all for change TheRedneck, but chances are things are only going to get more expensive as opposed to cost less.

This keeps up mate and the weans will need to be going down that new coal mine that got approved in the UK to be able to make ends meet. LoL

Unfortunately, faith doesn't pay the bills or the rent in this day of age.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: andy06shake

Well if there is no parent at home i really can't see how they are supposed to parent TheRedneck.

That's my point. They can't.

Because the fact of the matter is without both parents working full-time, it's kind of hard to pay the rent/mortgage nevermind keep the lights on for most in this day of age.

And that is what needs to change.

I could get into how we have replaced faith in ourselves and others with faith in money, but that's for another thread.

TheRedneck

It is the times. We as a society has greatly changed and not or the better.

My story is the odd one out, but it does shed a little bit of light on just how much things have changed over just the last 50 years.

I grew up in the country, in a tiny town. Everyone knew everyone else. Everyone was poor, and we looked out for each other.
My father was a truck driver and my mother started out with cleaning homes of the wealthy over 75 miles outside of our little village. She went to school at night, and became a nurse.

I grew up in a home with three sisters, and four brothers. I am the oldest, I left home early, right out of school. There are a total of 10 of us, 5 girls and 5 boys.

My father died of a cerebral aneurysm when he was sleeping at the age of 41. My Mother raised us children by teaching the importance of working together and taking care of each other. We got help from the church, and the community. But we did most of the work, because we knew how hard it was for our Mother to raise us, clothe us, feed us, and educate us. We did everything we could to make this sacrifice and easy for her as possible.

We grew up in a time when unlawful, uncouth, vulgar actions or speech was not tolerated, not glamorized, and was punished. And that punishment could have come from a trusted neighbor or a trusted teacher. Never ever during my childhood can I think of a time when any of us was punished for something we did not deserve to be punished for, and that is exactly why we never told our parents, because we knew we were wrong and we would have received a more severe punishment if we ratted ourselves or each other out.

Discipline has become a dirty word and corporeal punish a criminal offense in the minds of some people. It is not a crime where I live and is discipline is properly utilized, it is rarely ever needed.

Parenting has become a cancelled word in our society, and our children are paying the price for its lost.

I volunteer twice a week in the community. I know a lot of the children and their families. I can tell a home schooled child from a public schooled child from a mile away. We have become a society that seeks social media acceptance, regardless to where it comes from, or what it makes us. And right now, social media is making us a world full of deceitful avatars, lying to ourselves more frequently then we lie to others.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: TheRedneck

I'm still chomping at the bit to hear what the teacher has to say when she wakes up.

As the two-parent dilemma.

Well by my guess, two parents and indeed better than one, just like one parent is better than none.

Attention/time/and money wise, far as i can establish at least as a rule of thumb.

Update.

Added: I think I was posting this at the same time as NSB4D was updating.

The teacher, Abigail Zwerner, 25, was shot in the chest with injuries initially considered to be life threatening. Her condition has improved, though, and she has been reported in stable condition at a hospital.

Wow, shot point blank in the chest by a 9mm. And is hanging in there. Wow. The word miracle might be appropriate here.
This is the only news I can find on the teacher. Still doing ok, so that's good. I do wonder what she'll have to say about it. And who gave the tip the kid had the gun? Something behind that..

www.pbs.org...

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

Cheers.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: TheRedneck

I'm still chomping at the bit to hear what the teacher has to say when she wakes up.

As the two-parent dilemma.

Well by my guess, two parents and indeed better than one, just like one parent is better than none.

Attention/time/and money wise, far as i can establish at least as a rule of thumb.

Update.

Thank you NightSkyB4Dawn!!
Woah! Not gonna lie, I had tears listening to her story. One word right now: hero. Wow

We can't ignore the likely outcomes of this event.

I noticed in the update, that a lot of emphasis was placed on deterrents. They did not go into depth about what type of safety measures they are planning on putting in place. I am sure it is going to make the school environment look more like areas of confinement than places for intellectual education, and I don't think it is going generate an atmosphere of learning.

I have no easy answers. There is no quick fix. This is not a problem that the school can fix. This is a problem that can only be "fixed" in the home. And that is going to take decades, and more.

If society keeps using schools as babysitting operations, things are only going to get worse.

a reply to: AOx6179

A true hero indeed!

Let's hope said story dispels the likes of any would-be crackpots calling the teacher a pedophile once and for all.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn

We can't ignore that likely outcomes of this event.

I noticed in the update, that a lot of emphasis was placed on deterrents. They did not go into depth about what type of safety measures they are planning on putting in place. I am sure it is going to make the school environment look more like areas of confinement than places for intellectual education, and I don't think it is going generate an atmosphere of learning.

I have no easy answers. There is no quick fix. This is not a problem that the school can fix. This is a problem that can only be "fixed" in the home. And that is going to take decades, and more.

If society keeps using schools as babysitting operations, things are only going to get worse.

Agree. So many elements unanswered. I think he sort of had to assure that measures were taken properly, after the texas thing. I saw a lot of concern about stating all out to pre-answer those coming questions. It sounded like the entire staff handled the whole thing with grace and as well as with the police on scene. It was sort of a good story on the part of knowing we do have the abilities to get our kids to safety when things like this happen. That was sort of a silver lining from my vantage point.
No easy answers. So many things to consider.
The boy shot unprovoked, imo. Sounds like she was softly and gently trying to get him to hand her te gun and he just shot.
That begs questions as to why did he feel he needed to shoot? The answer will open some eyes, I bet, and bring on many more topics to address on where our children are headed with all of this.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: AOx6179

A true hero indeed!

Let's hope said story dispels the likes of any would-be crackpots calling the teacher a pedophile once and for all.

No doubt! Her side is a ray of sunshine in the darkness of our school system. Her story made me a little more comfortable knowing we still have good teachers who love our kids.
She will be honored. And from the sounds of it, everyone worked beautifully getting the kids to safety. The one good element to this horror story. That and teach taking a slug to the chest and still getting those kids out before she fell. And pulled through! 💪 She's my new hero for sure.

a reply to: AOx6179

I'd call it lucky, for sure... but after hearing the details on how she was shot, "miracle" might be pushing things a little. Certainly I credit and thank God for her survival, but it doesn't sound like any physical laws were broken or bent.

This might get a little disturbing... be forewarned.

What happens when one is shot is that the bullet strikes the body at a very high rate of speed. A lot of people think the whole idea is for the bullet to shoot int a person; that is not always the case. The shape of the bullet, as well as the materials in it, varies quite a bit form one round to another. Based on this being a self-protection weapon, I would expect the bullet used to be more of an impact bullet.

An impact bullet is designed to expand on impact with any solid body. The nose is flattened to reduce penetration, and the shape and materials are designed so the bullet mushrooms out (and in some designs, actually flies apart as shrapnel) when it makes impact. A small enough body can still be pierced, but the idea is that all of the energy contained in the bullet is transferred to the target and not behind the target.

When the teacher threw her hand up, I believe that literally saved her life. The bullet started mushrooming on impact with her hand, and in punching through it, lost enough energy so it likely did not penetrate far into her chest. Also, the impact was upper left chest; the heart is located in the lower half of the chest and the major blood arteries in the middle. She likely had some lung damage, blood loss, and maybe some other injuries from the bullet, but not enough to be immediately life-ending.

I'll say that it most certainly wasn't a pleasant experience. The fact that she led her kids out into the hall herself, including looking back to make sure they were safe, after receiving any chest wound from a bullet just makes me hold her in higher esteem. That's a true hero right there, and I hope the parents in that community know what they have in her. If there is any justice, she will never again be able to buy her own meal. Someone will be buying them for her as fast as she can eat them.

It seems we got some misinformation earlier... I didn't her anything about her trying to get the gun away from the child; it actually sounded like he purposely pulled the gun and fired while she was teaching. If so, this kid has some serious problems.

Also, they did mention the father this time, and one sentence even indicated that the family was together, but then again they are focusing on the mother. I don't know what to make of that.So far there have been no charges against the family, but they are also not ruling possible criminal charges out. Not knowing the specifics of how the kid got his mother's gun, I am not going to comment further on that at this time. As the police chief said, let the law and the circumstances make that determination.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: AOx6179

I'd call it lucky, for sure... but after hearing the details on how she was shot, "miracle" might be pushing things a little. Certainly I credit and thank God for her survival, but it doesn't sound like any physical laws were broken or bent.

This might get a little disturbing... be forewarned.

What happens when one is shot is that the bullet strikes the body at a very high rate of speed. A lot of people think the whole idea is for the bullet to shoot int a person; that is not always the case. The shape of the bullet, as well as the materials in it, varies quite a bit form one round to another. Based on this being a self-protection weapon, I would expect the bullet used to be more of an impact bullet.

An impact bullet is designed to expand on impact with any solid body. The nose is flattened to reduce penetration, and the shape and materials are designed so the bullet mushrooms out (and in some designs, actually flies apart as shrapnel) when it makes impact. A small enough body can still be pierced, but the idea is that all of the energy contained in the bullet is transferred to the target and not behind the target.

When the teacher threw her hand up, I believe that literally saved her life. The bullet started mushrooming on impact with her hand, and in punching through it, lost enough energy so it likely did not penetrate far into her chest. Also, the impact was upper left chest; the heart is located in the lower half of the chest and the major blood arteries in the middle. She likely had some lung damage, blood loss, and maybe some other injuries from the bullet, but not enough to be immediately life-ending.

I'll say that it most certainly wasn't a pleasant experience. The fact that she led her kids out into the hall herself, including looking back to make sure they were safe, after receiving any chest wound from a bullet just makes me hold her in higher esteem. That's a true hero right there, and I hope the parents in that community know what they have in her. If there is any justice, she will never again be able to buy her own meal. Someone will be buying them for her as fast as she can eat them.

It seems we got some misinformation earlier... I didn't her anything about her trying to get the gun away from the child; it actually sounded like he purposely pulled the gun and fired while she was teaching. If so, this kid has some serious problems.

Also, they did mention the father this time, and one sentence even indicated that the family was together, but then again they are focusing on the mother. I don't know what to make of that.So far there have been no charges against the family, but they are also not ruling possible criminal charges out. Not knowing the specifics of how the kid got his mother's gun, I am not going to comment further on that at this time. As the police chief said, let the law and the circumstances make that determination.

TheRedneck

I was thinking the same thing. Her hand broke the bullet up (mushroomed, slowed projectory). And that is what saved her. IMO pretty miraculous. But luck, miracle, kinda same same I guess in a way. Good fortune. One wouldn't normally think putting your hand up could actually save your life, but as you explained out it can. I know ppl who keep bullets like black talons loaded up which would have gone right thru her hand. I was pretty in awe at that action of placing her hand up made such a difference in the outcome for her.

On point ballistics summary. Thanks for sharing that out. Definitely notable how she was able to survive.

originally posted by: AOx6179

The boy shot unprovoked, imo. Sounds like she was softly and gently trying to get him to hand her te gun and he just shot.
That begs questions as to why did he feel he needed to shoot? The answer will open some eyes, I bet, and bring on many more topics to address on where our children are headed with all of this.

It's not little timmy's fault he's from a den of vipers, he's just a product of his environment.

Maybe kill whitey is the talk of the town across the hood nationwide, or maybe it is the topic of discussion at the dinner table among minority communities...

One thing I guess the MSM surely didn't play a role. kids are malleable, impressionable, they pick up on things.