Scot left unable to stand after Covid vaccine reaction raising money for stem cell treatment

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: Asmodeus3

The most plausible explanation after getting injected with the mRNA vaccine and developing immediately after debilitating conditions is the vaccine itself and not something else. Unless you are engaging in vaccine apologetics and trying to defend Pfizer.

So clearly you have evidence of this you're willing to post, or you making assumptions based on your bias?

Denial is a common tactic that substitutes deliberate ignorance for thoughtful planning.
CHARLES TREMPER

Let me start with this written by another member.

You are defending Pfizer by proxy. And you're stretching out towards infinity to deny that these experimental Covid drugs aren't the reason for massive debilitating side effects being reported on an unprecedented scale, which is also defending Pfizer and Moderna even if you didn't intend it that way, that is the bottom line.

If you conveniently trying to dismiss it then you are at odds with common sense and reality.

John Watts developed POTS immediately after been vaccinated with the Pfizer vaccine. There is a clear link here. Unless you engage in vaccine apologetics and denialism of reality.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

I see that you can no longer provide any evidence to back up your outragous claims and support of the vaccine causing POTS in this case and can only post someone else arguement about defence by proxy.
You're unwilling to except the most obvious reasons as posted and instead except something that conforms to your bias.

Denial is a common tactic that substitutes deliberate ignorance for thoughtful planning.
CHARLES TREMPER

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: Asmodeus3

I see that you can no longer provide any evidence to back up your outragous claims and support of the vaccine causing POTS in this case and can only post someone else arguement about defence by proxy.
You're unwilling to except the most obvious reasons as posted and instead except something that conforms to your bias.

Denial is a common tactic that substitutes deliberate ignorance for thoughtful planning.
CHARLES TREMPER

The vaccine could cause anyhing since the LPNs can go anywhere and deliver their payload which causes immune system activation and tissue death, so virtually any condition could be caused by them and the mechanism is easy to see.

a reply to: v1rtu0s0

Including suicides and car accidents and murders?

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: Asmodeus3

I see that you can no longer provide any evidence to back up your outragous claims and support of the vaccine causing POTS in this case and can only post someone else arguement about defence by proxy.
You're unwilling to except the most obvious reasons as posted and instead except something that conforms to your bias.

Denial is a common tactic that substitutes deliberate ignorance for thoughtful planning.
CHARLES TREMPER

Let's start with this again

You are defending Pfizer by proxy. And you're stretching out towards infinity to deny that these experimental Covid drugs aren't the reason for massive debilitating side effects being reported on an unprecedented scale, which is also defending Pfizer and Moderna even if you didn't intend it that way, that is the bottom line.

John Watts developed a debilitating condition immediately after he was vaccinated with the Pfizer booster. This most plausible explanation is the vaccine and not a viral infection. Unless you want to engage again in vaccine apologetics and defending of Pfizer.

a reply to: v1rtu0s0

The vaccine could cause anyhing since the LPNs can go anywhere and deliver their payload which causes immune system activation and tissue death, so virtually any condition could be caused by them and the mechanism is easy to see.

Yeah, they cause gunshot wounds, car accidents, cancer before Covid was found, murders and suicides!!!

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: v1rtu0s0

The vaccine could cause anyhing since the LPNs can go anywhere and deliver their payload which causes immune system activation and tissue death, so virtually any condition could be caused by them and the mechanism is easy to see.

Yeah, they cause gunshot wounds, car accidents, cancer before Covid was found, murders and suicides!!!

But they are likely to cause debilitating conditions such as POTS. John Watts developed a debilitating condition immediately after he was vaccinated with the Pfizer booster. The most plausible explanation is the vaccine and not a viral infection. Unless you want to engage again in vaccine apologetics and defending of Pfizer and/or denialism of reality.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

That again is an assumption based on bias and not confirmed medically.
As I've posted POTS is caused by many things and untill its proven what John Watts reason for developing it is, you're making assumptions based on headlines and hearsay, Which is very unscientific, but what else can we expect judging from your posting history.

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: Asmodeus3

That again is an assumption based on bias and not confirmed medically.
As I've posted POTS is caused by many things and untill its proven what John Watts reason for developing it is, you're making assumptions based on headlines and hearsay, Which is very unscientific, but what else can we expect judging from your posting history.

We haven't spoken about proof here but about the plausible explanations. The most plausible explanation is the vaccine as John Watts developed POTS immediately after getting vaccinated. There was no sign of an infectious disease either Covid or anything else. The family has said he was very healthy until the moment he got vaccinated.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

I've posted the most plausable explanations but you choose to ignore that and subtitute it with your own assumptions, just like John Watts has.
So was his reaction the same minute of injection, the same day or the same week, or the same month? Had he suffered from covid, a viral infection or any other of the propable causes of POTS during this time? This is unknown, so your assumption is just that, an assumption based on nothing other than John Watts opinion.

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: Asmodeus3

I've posted the most plausable explanations but you choose to ignore that and subtitute it with your own assumptions, just like John Watts has.
So was his reaction the same minute of injection, the same day or the same week, or the same month? Had he suffered from covid, a viral infection or any other of the propable causes of POTS during this time? This is unknown, so your assumption is just that, an assumption based on nothing other than John Watts opinion.

The most plausible explanation is the vaccine as his debilitating condition started immediately after getting vaccinated.

What you have posted would have been the most plausible explanation if there was no vaccination involved and especially the timing.

The family said he was healthy until this point and there was known viral infections including Covid.

But when you are engaging in vaccine apologetics and denialism or reality that's what happens.

a reply to: chr0naut

You Bore me . Nuff Said . You do not Converse , but Preach Constantly .

a reply to: Zanti Misfit

Nice conversing.

Bored now.

Nuff said.

Zzzzzzzzz

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: surfer_soul
a reply to: chr0naut

all other mitigations against transmission (lock-downs, social distancing, sanitizing and masking) were dropped by the general public for political reasons.

Dropped for political reasons, are you serious? Clearly you have nothing better to do with your time than troll these boards pretending to be some medical expert when you’re nothing of the sort. For you it’s all about political views.

The member you are referring to suggested the vaccine is not the most likely cause of the debilitating condition John Watts developed immediately after receiving his mRNA booster vaccine.

Correct.

They argue along with a few others that viral infections are equally plausible explanations but that's plain denialism and vaccine apologetics.

No, I explained why I consider other possibilities more probable. I went with the more probable explanations.

I recall as I said in my post above that the same member was arguing SARS-CoV-2 was present in humans long before it became pathogenic.

Rubbish. I wrote that a recent ancestor of SARS-CoV-2 could have existed in a benign and therefore unnoticed form in humans prior to the mutation/s that gave SARS-CoV-2 pathogenicity. The specificity of bonding to human ACE2 (and poor binding efficiency in all other tested species), by the SARS-CoV-2 virus would argue that. And it is just one possibility, just a possible idea, because there is no evidence either way for recent zoonosis occurring in 2019 (when it was first detected) in the case of SARS-CoV-2, either.

But there is no evidence for it whatsoever.

But that is an absence of evidence. You cant hold up 'nothing' as evidencing 'something - that is poor reasoning.

SARS-CoV-2 is not known to have existed for years undetected among humans.

But there have been a family of SARS related viruses affect humans, two of them pathogenic (SARS and MERS), known for more than two decades prior.

Earlier he was also arguing that the Cambrian Explosion disproves evolution! But evolution is not a linear process and the Cambrian period doesn't disprove it. It's just a very false claim.

Both classical Darwinian Evolution and the Modern Evolutionary Synthesis require a gradualism that is argued against by several real-world observations of bursts of biodiversification.

Punctuated Equilibrium, Panspermia, Horizontal Genetic Transfer, Epigenetics, and Catastrophism are NOT covered at all in Evolutionary Theory. They are additional to, and occasionally contrary to, Evolutionary Theory. This leads to the conundrums of situations of observed relatively sudden changes inexplicable by just the mechanisms of Evolutionary Theory.

It terms of the members who are in support of lockdowns, restriction, mass and mandatory vaccinations

I am neither for, nor against mandatory vaccinations. I do however, prefer that vaccination campaigns have a good uptake, which is required for them to be effective. Part of that is support for good education in that regard, and opposition to disinformation campaigns.

, and engage in vaccine apologetics, one is for sure, nobody is an expert in any scientific and medical field. They are just 'offering' their often unsubstantiated and false opinions which are based on politics and ideology.

I make no claim about being a medical expert.

I have an academic and science background, but not in a medical field.

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: chr0naut

You Bore me . Nuff Said . You do not Converse , but Preach Constantly .

That's OK.

You deliver your opinion, and then insult any who suggest something different.

You do not debate.

originally posted by: v1rtu0s0

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: Asmodeus3

I see that you can no longer provide any evidence to back up your outragous claims and support of the vaccine causing POTS in this case and can only post someone else arguement about defence by proxy.
You're unwilling to except the most obvious reasons as posted and instead except something that conforms to your bias.

Denial is a common tactic that substitutes deliberate ignorance for thoughtful planning.
CHARLES TREMPER

The vaccine could cause anything since the LPNs can go anywhere and deliver their payload which causes immune system activation and tissue death, so virtually any condition could be caused by them and the mechanism is easy to see.

So you have argued elsewhere that the vaccines are ineffective in causing sufficient immune response, and yet, here, in this post, you are arguing that they are causing a strong immune response?

Perhaps your worst-case views of things, cancel your opinions out entirely?

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: surfer_soul
a reply to: chr0naut

all other mitigations against transmission (lock-downs, social distancing, sanitizing and masking) were dropped by the general public for political reasons.

Dropped for political reasons, are you serious? Clearly you have nothing better to do with your time than troll these boards pretending to be some medical expert when you’re nothing of the sort. For you it’s all about political views.

The member you are referring to suggested the vaccine is not the most likely cause of the debilitating condition John Watts developed immediately after receiving his mRNA booster vaccine.

Correct.

They argue along with a few others that viral infections are equally plausible explanations but that's plain denialism and vaccine apologetics.

No, I explained why I consider other possibilities more probable. I went with the more probable explanations.

I recall as I said in my post above that the same member was arguing SARS-CoV-2 was present in humans long before it became pathogenic.

Rubbish. I wrote that a recent ancestor of SARS-CoV-2 existed in a benign and therefore unnoticed form in humans prior to the mutation/s that gave SARS-CoV-2 pathogenicity. The specificity of bonding to human ACE2 (and poor binding efficiency in all other tested species), by the SARS-CoV-2 virus would argue that.

But there is no evidence for it whatsoever.

But that is an absence of evidence. You cant hold up 'nothing' as evidencing 'something - that is poor reasoning.

SARS-CoV-2 is not known to have existed for years undetected among humans.

But there have been a family of SARS related viruses affect humans, two of them pathogenic (SARS and MERS), known for more than two decades prior.

Earlier he was also arguing that the Cambrian Explosion disproves evolution! But evolution is not a linear process and the Cambrian period doesn't disprove it. It's just a very false claim.

Both classical Darwinian Evolution and the Modern Evolutionary Synthesis require a gradualism that is argued against by several real-world observations of bursts of biodiversification.

Punctuated Equilibrium, Panspermia, Horizontal Genetic Transfer, Epigenetics, and Catastrophism are NOT covered at all in Evolutionary Theory. They are additional to, and occasionally contrary to, Evolutionary Theory. This leads to the conundrums of situations of observed relatively sudden changes inexplicable by just the mechanisms of Evolutionary Theory.

It terms of the members who are in support of lockdowns, restriction, mass and mandatory vaccinations

I am neither for, nor against mandatory vaccinations. I do however, prefer that vaccination campaigns have a good uptake, which is required for them to be effective. Part of that is support for good education in that regard, and opposition to disinformation campaigns.

, and engage in vaccine apologetics, one is for sure, nobody is an expert in any scientific and medical field. They are just 'offering' their often unsubstantiated and false opinions which are based on politics and ideology.

I make no claim about being a medical expert.

I have an academic and science background, but not in a medical field.

If you have academic and science background as you have said then wouldn't claim that the Cambrian Explosion disproves evolution. Evolution is not a linear process. And the Cambrian Explosion doesn't disprove evolution. It shows that evolution is not linear. Gradualism isn't necessary in evolution. That's false.


I recall as I said in my post above you were arguing that SARS-CoV-2 was present in humans long before it became pathogenic.

And you replied

Rubbish. I wrote that a recent ancestor of SARS-CoV-2 existed in a benign and therefore unnoticed form in humans prior to the mutation/s that gave SARS-CoV-2 pathogenicity. The specificity of bonding to human ACE2 (and poor binding efficiency in all other tested species), by the SARS-CoV-2 virus would argue that.

But this is exactly what I said above. SARS-CoV-2 existed in humans long before it became pathogenic. It's obvious it was another non pathogenic ancestor of the virus. But there is not a single piece of evidence for it.

There is SARS-CoV and MERS and for long time now we have known them. If there was another one related to SARS-CoV they would have found it long time ago even if it was not pathogenic.

As far as I have seen there are not good arguments why someone who is young and healthy develops a debilitating condition such as POTS immediately after he is getting injected with the Pfizer vaccine. The most plausible explanation is the vaccine itself and not a viral infection. He didn't develop this condition after getting infected with SARS-CoV-2 or another virus but after getting vaccinated.

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: Asmodeus3

That again is an assumption based on bias and not confirmed medically.
As I've posted POTS is caused by many things and untill its proven what John Watts reason for developing it is, you're making assumptions based on headlines and hearsay, Which is very unscientific, but what else can we expect judging from your posting history.

We haven't spoken about proof here but about the plausible explanations. The most plausible explanation is the vaccine as John Watts developed POTS immediately after getting vaccinated. There was no sign of an infectious disease either Covid or anything else. The family has said he was very healthy until the moment he got vaccinated.

The most plausible explanantion is the one most frequently given as a possible cause of the condition out of all cases of the occurrence of that condition. A one off coincidence is not the most plausible.

Evidence - the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.

I hate it when someone says “there is no evidence”. There is always evidence when you say there is “no evidence “ you are show your ignorance and lack of English comprehension.

Instead of being stupid and saying there is “no evidence” simply state what evidence you will accept. When someone develops a condition immediately following a vaccination it is indeed evidence. If you don’t like it and you want more then look for it. We are not a court of law. We are not held to any standards for our beliefs. Most people don’t catch their spouse in the act of cheating but you know.

I don’t need a court of law to tell me these vaccines are dangerous and if you do then you are deliberately obtuse. If this vaccine was for anything other than Covid it would have never been released, it would have been pulled, if it was released the company releasing it would be sued to oblivion.

I’m not taking it ever. That’s my evidence.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: Asmodeus3

That again is an assumption based on bias and not confirmed medically.
As I've posted POTS is caused by many things and untill its proven what John Watts reason for developing it is, you're making assumptions based on headlines and hearsay, Which is very unscientific, but what else can we expect judging from your posting history.

We haven't spoken about proof here but about the plausible explanations. The most plausible explanation is the vaccine as John Watts developed POTS immediately after getting vaccinated. There was no sign of an infectious disease either Covid or anything else. The family has said he was very healthy until the moment he got vaccinated.

The most plausible explanantion is the one most frequently given as a possible cause of the condition out of all cases of the occurrence of that condition. A one off coincidence is not the most plausible.

If there was not a vaccination with an untested and potentially hazardous product then the most plausible explanation would have been a viral infection. Unless you have some other underlying conditions such as diabetes or cancer or autoimmune diseases such as lupus.

But John Watts developed this debilitating condition immediately after receiving his mRNA booster vaccine. His deterioration was recorded by his family who has pointed to the vaccine from the from very early given there were no other conditions he suffered from or known viral infections.