Scot left unable to stand after Covid vaccine reaction raising money for stem cell treatment

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: Asmodeus3

The first one.

No one has suggested the other three.

Oh, more sarcasm?

So much for serious debate.

Question . " Do you Like seeing Young Children Experimented on like " Lab Rats " > ? This is What is Happening RIGHT NOW !

Weren't you just calling for research which would amount to challenge trials, suggesting that there was insufficient testing, and now you writing that the testing is going too far and is inappropriate?

Human Life is Precious whether or Not you Personally Believe that . NO MAN on this Earth has the Self Imposed RIGHT to Harm other Human Life for the Sake of Misguided Personal Beliefs . WTF !

So, you are in favor of firearm bans?

Hey Scarecrow , Still haven't got that Brain Yet ? You are a Piece of .................................Work .

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: Asmodeus3

The first one.

No one has suggested the other three.

Oh, more sarcasm?

So much for serious debate.

Question . " Do you Like seeing Young Children Experimented on like " Lab Rats " > ? This is What is Happening RIGHT NOW !

Weren't you just calling for research which would amount to challenge trials, suggesting that there was insufficient testing, and now you writing that the testing is going too far and is inappropriate?

Human Life is Precious whether or Not you Personally Believe that . NO MAN on this Earth has the Self Imposed RIGHT to Harm other Human Life for the Sake of Misguided Personal Beliefs . WTF !

So, you are in favor of firearm bans?

Hey Scarecrow , Still haven't got that Brain Yet ?

I am fairly sure that we both have some sort of brain. How else could we parse language in the way we have?

You are a Piece of .................................Work .

I merely pointed out the contradictions in your posts.

Do you think that your last response in any way addresses the topic? An irrational response and an irrelevant clip hardly substitutes for satisfying argument.

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Asmodeus3
a reply to: chr0naut

One of the major problems in relation to testing for transmission is that they lied about the vaccines preventing transmission and infection. The entire campaign was based on the false premise of cutting transmission through vaccination with these products and save the granny.

As the matter of fact Pfizer even 'forgot' to test for transmission as they were moving at the speed of science.

They tested for reduction in viral loads and duration of infections. As I pointed out, proper testing for reduction in transmission requires a challenge trial.

What you are assuming is that there has been no reduction in transmission at all. Just because there still was some transmission, does not mean there has been no reduction in transmission.

You have to realize that just before the roll-out of the vaccines to the general public, the predominant strains became significantly more infectious and nearly all other mitigations against transmission (lock-downs, social distancing, sanitizing and masking) were dropped by the general public for political reasons. In situations such as that, a bloom in transmission events can completely mask a reduction in transmission.

The vaccines work by promoting an immune response in people who have not previously encountered the disease. They don't work to place a magic barrier to transmission. They reduce transmission as the number of hosts for the pathogen reduce and the duration of period of infectivity reduces. But instead of reducing the number of hosts, there were definite moves (mass protests, political rallies and other super-spreader events, and the dropping of transmission mitigations) to increase the spread of the pathogen. The idiocracy have clearly won that one.

You probably have to read the article above as John Watts was also keen in getting boosted and he ended up not being able to walk or even stand having a debilitating condition which nobody knows when it is going to improve. I hope he does get better though.

At first I believed that the John Watt you were talking about was the famous footballer. But it appears to be someone else in the video, so I'll withdraw any comment on that.

Yes, it's not someone famous or someone you know. It's just a young Scottish person who after taking his booster has developed debilitating conditions and he is now waiting for stem cell research and whatever else he might be available.

Safe and effective? Not really.

A high number of patients with POTS have elevated levels of autoantibodies against the adrenergic alpha 1 receptor and against the muscarinic acetylcholine M4 receptor, neither of which relate at all to COVID-19 vaccines.

About 50% of cases of POTS are triggered by viral illness. There have been cases of POTS post COVID-19, although at present there is not enough to identify it as a definite cause.

However, to jump to the conclusion that it was the vaccine, when an infectious disease sometimes linked to the condition is raging around the sufferer, and when others are not getting the condition post vaccination, is a bit of a stretch.

It's the most plausible explanation as it can be caused by the mRNA vaccines and the debilitating condition occurred immediately after John Watts received his booster.

If you see the title of this thread is 'Scott left unable to stand after Covid vaccine reaction...'
It doesn't say Scott left unable to stand after SARS-CoV-2 infection and development of Covid-19 disease.

But the entire heading does not include the elipsis that you just ended your quote with. The whole title was "Scot left unable to stand after Covid vaccine reaction raising money for stem cell treatment" (emphasis mine).

Do you think stem cell treatment is applicable to a vaccine adverse reaction, or would it be more appropriate for fixing, say, a condition that is the result of an underlying congenital problem?

I didn't comment on the heading regarding the stem cell research.

So, it is OK to "quote" a truncated version of something because is suits your argument when the full quote doesn't?

How about the fact that the heading can be misrepresented as: "Scot left...", or, "COVID... raising money for stem cell treatment"?



Can you see that by ignoring part of a simple summary sentence, you break-up and loose the sense and meaning of that sentence, and it doesn't qualify as the basis of valid argument.

Your second paragraph is deflection and an attempt at a strawman argument.

A straw man argument is one in which the person sets up and then attacks a position that is not actually being debated. However, my response was directly counter to the proposition that vaccines caused Watt's malady. A proposition implicit in the OP and it's title, and also in the title and body of the linked article.

So, not a straw man argument.

I will repeat the John Watts developed debilitating conditions immediately after getting vaccinated and not after getting infected with SARS-CoV-2 and developed Covid-19 disease. Nowhere ot says in the article that he suffered from a vital infection.

The article made no mention of any other condition that John Watts had, but that does not mean that he did not have them. The article was written entirely to ignore all other possibilities and to present one particular bias.

Correlation does not mean causation.

For instance, if someone found out that they won the lottery immediately after they broke their leg, it would be silly to assume that breaking one's leg causes a subsequent lottery win.

To establish cause, you need more than a single coincidence. A good point to start with is to examine all possible causal links and evaluate comparative probabilities. Ockham's razor suggests simply that the most likely possibility is the most likely. Based upon the existence of multiple previously 'clinically' established and frequently linked possible causes, a one-off occurrence, like in this situation, is less likely.

a reply to: chr0naut


Again no, it isn't this way.


The article does not say Scott developed debilitating conditions after been infected with SARS-CoV-2 and developed Covid-19 disease. It is clear that John Watts developed the debilitating conditions immediately after he received his Pfizer booster.

And eventhough we can't say with 100% certainly that it is the vaccine that caused it, it is still the most likely scenario as John Watts was healthy before the incident, he is young with no known co-morbidities and other conditions, and the family said he had no other diseases.

Developing debilitating conditions immediately after vaccination is not a coincidence as you described. It's much more than that.


You said:

For instance, if someone found out that they won the lottery immediately after they broke their leg, it would be silly to assume that breaking one's leg causes a subsequent lottery win.

This is one of the most terrible arguments and examples I have ever seen. There is no link and connector between breaking your leg and winning the lottery. However there is a very strong connection and link between mRNA vaccines and POTS.

This is just another failed attempt to argue that there could other equally plausible explanations. The most plausible one is the vaccine.

Hence you are engaging again in vaccine apologetics and denialism of really.

I recall the other time when you were claiming that the Cambrian explosion disproves evolution. Which is not true as evolution is not a linear process. Or the other time when you were claiming that SARS-CoV-2 existed for a long period of time in humans before becoming pathogenic. Again no evidence for this either. You are making some bizzare arguments and claims which are false.

a reply to: chr0naut

all other mitigations against transmission (lock-downs, social distancing, sanitizing and masking) were dropped by the general public for political reasons.

Dropped for political reasons, are you serious? Clearly you have nothing better to do with your time than troll these boards pretending to be some medical expert when you’re nothing of the sort. For you it’s all about political views.

originally posted by: surfer_soul
a reply to: chr0naut

all other mitigations against transmission (lock-downs, social distancing, sanitizing and masking) were dropped by the general public for political reasons.

Dropped for political reasons, are you serious? Clearly you have nothing better to do with your time than troll these boards pretending to be some medical expert when you’re nothing of the sort. For you it’s all about political views.

The member you are referring to suggested the vaccine is not the most likely cause of the debilitating condition John Watts developed immediately after receiving his mRNA booster vaccine. They argue along with a few others that viral infections are equally plausible explanations but that's plain denialism and vaccine apologetics.

I recall as I said in my post above that the same member was arguing SARS-CoV-2 was present in humans long before it became pathogenic. But there is no evidence for it whatsoever. SARS-CoV-2 is not known to have existed for years undetected among humans.

Earlier he was also arguing that the Cambrian Explosion disproves evolution! But evolution is not a linear process and the Cambrian period doesn't disprove it. It's just a very false claim.

It terms of the members who are in support of lockdowns, restriction, mass and mandatory vaccinations, and engage in vaccine apologetics, one is for sure, nobody is an expert in any scientific and medical field. They are just 'offering' their often unsubstantiated and false opinions which are based on politics and ideology.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

You are still engaging in vaccine apologetics and denialism of reality but that's what happens when you are emotionally invested in drugs, vaccines, and related ideologies. I understand your position and frustration.

So you can't put up a single post made by me defending the vaccine or Pfizer then can you? And you think I'm emotionally invested here?!?!
It's not me posting threads on a daily basis making wild claims and acusations. It's not me posting stories and trying to link them to my biased theories and it's not me posting frindge theories claiming it as "science".

Denial is a common tactic that substitutes deliberate ignorance for thoughtful planning.
CHARLES TREMPER

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: Asmodeus3

You are still engaging in vaccine apologetics and denialism of reality but that's what happens when you are emotionally invested in drugs, vaccines, and related ideologies. I understand your position and frustration.

So you can't put up a single post made by me defending the vaccine or Pfizer then can you? And you think I'm emotionally invested here?!?!
It's not me posting threads on a daily basis making wild claims and acusations. It's not me posting stories and trying to link them to my biased theories and it's not me posting frindge theories claiming it as "science".

Denial is a common tactic that substitutes deliberate ignorance for thoughtful planning.
CHARLES TREMPER

I am afraid you are mistaken again. I don't need to repost a specific post of yours as most of your posts are engaging in vaccine apologetics and denialism of reality. You certainly seem emotionally invested in these vaccines as many other left leaning members.

Another member in Page 8 said the following and this is part of his reply

You are defending Pfizer by proxy. And you're stretching out towards infinity to deny that these experimental Covid drugs aren't the reason for massive debilitating side effects being reported on an unprecedented scale, which is also defending Pfizer and Moderna even if you didn't intend it that way, that is the bottom line.

So you can see that I am not the only one who has spotted the obvious.

John Watts developed a debilitating condition immediately after he was vaccinated with the mRNA product of Pfizer. The most plausible explanation is that his debilitating condition is due to this vaccine. The article didn't say that John Watts developed a debilitating condition after has been infected with SARS-CoV-2 and developed Covid-19 disease.

Denying the link is the same as denying reality and the very specific circumstances by presenting other causes as equally plausible. It reminds me of the woke mathematics some other members have engaged in the past.

I see that it also bother you that some of us are posting more frequently here. I am sure you can handle it well...

But it's really good that in this platform you can post your ideas and views without censorship unlike in most other platforms that have been infected by the woke ideology and they censor everyone and everything who doesn't peddle the narrative, either it's the vaccine ideology or the transgender ideology or the climate change catastrophy.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

I am afraid you are mistaken again. I don't need to repost a specific post of yours as most of your posts are engaging in vaccine apologetics and denialism of reality. You certainly seem emotionally invested in these vaccines as many other left leaning members.

You're lead by your cogative bias and have made accusations on here and can't back them up, and can't post a single post of mine defending the vaccine.
You claim I'm defending Pfizer by proxy is absurd, there is no actual evidence of mass deaths like anti-vaxers are claiming, no evidence of mass severe reactions and no evidence of mass cover ups.
No evidence in this case that Jon Watts' illness is linked to the vaccine, and as Chr0naut said "Correlation does not mean causation."

Denial is a common tactic that substitutes deliberate ignorance for thoughtful planning.
CHARLES TREMPER

originally posted by: surfer_soul
a reply to: chr0naut

all other mitigations against transmission (lock-downs, social distancing, sanitizing and masking) were dropped by the general public for political reasons.

Dropped for political reasons, are you serious? Clearly you have nothing better to do with your time than troll these boards pretending to be some medical expert when you’re nothing of the sort. For you it’s all about political views.

So, all those "freedom" protests weren't political?

Would anyone be more 'free' if those protests had achieved what they set out to do?

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: Asmodeus3

I am afraid you are mistaken again. I don't need to repost a specific post of yours as most of your posts are engaging in vaccine apologetics and denialism of reality. You certainly seem emotionally invested in these vaccines as many other left leaning members.

You're lead by your cogative bias and have made accusations on here and can't back them up, and can't post a single post of mine defending the vaccine.
You claim I'm defending Pfizer by proxy is absurd, there is no actual evidence of mass deaths like anti-vaxers are claiming, no evidence of mass severe reactions and no evidence of mass cover ups.

Denial is a common tactic that substitutes deliberate ignorance for thoughtful planning.
CHARLES TREMPER

s no evidence in this case that Jon Watts' illness is linked to the vaccine, and as Chr0naut said "Correlation does not mean causation."

I will refer you to the Page 8 again and the post by another member

You are defending Pfizer by proxy. And you're stretching out towards infinity to deny that these experimental Covid drugs aren't the reason for massive debilitating side effects being reported on an unprecedented scale, which is also defending Pfizer and Moderna even if you didn't intend it that way, that is the bottom line.

You said: 'no evidence in this case that John Watts illness is linked to the vaccine, and as Chr0naut said Correlation does not mean causation'

You are again denying the link between the vaccine and the debilitating condition John Watts developed immediately after he was vaccinated with his Pfizer booster having been healthy with no known conditions until this point. The article didn't say that John Watts developed POTS immediately after having been infected with the virus and developed Covid-19 disease. Most plausible explanation is the vaccine.

You are still engaging in vaccine apologetics and denialism of reality. It's so obvious but you seem unable or unwilling to accept it. If you claim that you are not defending the vaccine then you are living in a fantasy or you are making disingenuous statements.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

You are again denying the link between the vaccine and the debilitating condition John Watts developed immediately after he was vaccinated with his Pfizer booster having been healthy with no known conditions until this point.

I'm not denying anything, there's just no evidence for a link. You're making assumption based on your bias to try to prove your incorrect "belief" that was the cause.
Whats obvious here is the fact you want to blame anytning and everything on the vaccine.

Denial is a common tactic that substitutes deliberate ignorance for thoughtful planning.
CHARLES TREMPER

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: Asmodeus3

You are again denying the link between the vaccine and the debilitating condition John Watts developed immediately after he was vaccinated with his Pfizer booster having been healthy with no known conditions until this point.

I'm not denying anything, there's just no evidence for a link. You're making assumption based on your bias to try to prove your incorrect "belief" that was the cause.
Whats obvious here is the fact you want to blame anytning and everything on the vaccine.

Denial is a common tactic that substitutes deliberate ignorance for thoughtful planning.
CHARLES TREMPER

No I am not blaming everything on the vaccine.
That's false.

You on the other hand are engaging in vaccine apologetics and denialism of reality

You are defending Pfizer by proxy. And you're stretching out towards infinity to deny that these experimental Covid drugs aren't the reason for massive debilitating side effects being reported on an unprecedented scale, which is also defending Pfizer and Moderna even if you didn't intend it that way, that is the bottom line.

John Watts developed POTS immediately after getting his booster. Not after getting infected with SARS-CoV-2 and developed Covid-19 disease. The most plausible explanation is the vaccine. Unless you are a vaccine apologist and see things differently.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

No I am not blaming everything on the vaccine.
That's false.

You on the other hand are engaging in vaccine apologetics and denialism of reality

I'm not the one on here posting multiple threads to try to give the impression that the vaccine is far worse that it is. In all the articles about John Watts, there is no clinical evidence that the vaccine is linked to his case other than he was vaccinated close to the time he suffered his illness.

possible reason/cause of POTS
www.standinguptopots.org...

Adrenal deficiency - Addison's disease, adrenal fatigue
Anemia, deficiency in folic acid
Antiphospholipid Syndrome (Hughes Syndrome)
Cervical stenosis
Chagas syndrome
Chiari malformation
Chronic Fatigue Syndrome/Myalgic Encephalomyelitis
Crohn’s Disease and Ulcerative Colitis
Delta Storage Pool Deficiency
Diabetes and Pre-Diabetes
Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome
Epstein Barr
Guillain-Barre
Lipodystrophy
Lupus
Lyme
Mast Cell Activation Disorders
Median Arcuate Ligament Syndrome
Mitochondrial Diseases
Nitric Oxide Deficiency
Norepinephrine Transporter Deficiency
Nutcracker Syndrome
Porphyrias
Sarcoidosis
Sjogren’s Syndrome
Syringomyelia
Thyroid Disease
Toxicity
Tumors – pheochromocytoma, neuroblastoma, pelvic ganglioneuroma
Physical Trauma, Surgery, Pregnancy
Vitamin Deficiencies – B1, B3, B6, B9 and B12

a reply to: Kurokage

You seem to be in a constant denial and trying hard to say it isn't the mRNA vaccine but something else. You seem to forget the facts i.e that a very healthy individual developed POTS immediately after his Covid booster.

And as the other member said

You are defending Pfizer by proxy. And you're stretching out towards infinity to deny that these experimental Covid drugs aren't the reason for massive debilitating side effects being reported on an unprecedented scale, which is also defending Pfizer and Moderna even if you didn't intend it that way, that is the bottom line.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

The constant denial is from you here, covered in a smoothering of bias. There is as of yet no actual proof this was caused by the vaccine, and it's people posting rumours to social media thats causing people to jump straight to "it's the vaccine" instead of tests and research to a cause, just like you've been doing on here.
Could you link to the information you seem to have that proves POTS is linked to the covid vaccination in this case and not from the possible causes I posted?

Your denial is staggering....

Denial is a common tactic that substitutes deliberate ignorance for thoughtful planning.
CHARLES TREMPER

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: Asmodeus3

The constant denial is from you here, covered in a smoothering of bias. There is as of yet no actual proof this was caused by the vaccine, and it's people posting rumours to social media thats causing people to jump straight to "it's the vaccine" instead of tests and research to a cause, just like you've been doing on here.
Could you link to the information you seem to have that proves POTS is linked to the covid vaccination in this case and not from the possible causes I posted?

Your denial is staggering....

Denial is a common tactic that substitutes deliberate ignorance for thoughtful planning.
CHARLES TREMPER

Nobody has spoken about proof but about the most plausible explanation given that John Watts developed POTS immediately after getting vaccinated with the booster. You really need to be into vaccine apologetics not to see the connection here.

Let me remind you again what another member said which you seem to conveniently ignore:

You are defending Pfizer by proxy. And you're stretching out towards infinity to deny that these experimental Covid drugs aren't the reason for massive debilitating side effects being reported on an unprecedented scale, which is also defending Pfizer and Moderna even if you didn't intend it that way, that is the bottom line.

I understand you are emotionally invested in the vaccines just as other left leaning members but unfortunately the facts speak for themselves.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

How is it the most plausable explanation, just because you said so???

The most plausible explanation as Occam's razor states...

the principle (attributed to William of Occam) that in explaining a thing no more assumptions should be made than are necessary. The principle is often invoked to defend reductionism or nominalism. Compare with principle of parsimony.

Look it even uses your favorite train of thought "assumption"
I've posted a link and list to the most obvious reasons to suffer from POTS but purely because John Watts had a vaccine injection then that must be the cause? Thats not a logical train of thought....

Also please post links to my "left leaning" posts or again is that your cognative bias and denail of actual facts.

Denial is a common tactic that substitutes deliberate ignorance for thoughtful planning.
CHARLES TREMPER

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: Asmodeus3

How is it the most plausable explanation, just because you said so???

The most plausible explanation as Occam's razor states...

the principle (attributed to William of Occam) that in explaining a thing no more assumptions should be made than are necessary. The principle is often invoked to defend reductionism or nominalism. Compare with principle of parsimony.

Look it even uses your favorite train of thought "assumption"
I've posted a link and list to the most obvious reasons to suffer from POTS but purely because John Watts had a vaccine injection then that must be the cause? Thats not a logical train of thought....

Also please post links to my "left leaning" posts or again is that your cognative bias and denail of actual facts.

Denial is a common tactic that substitutes deliberate ignorance for thoughtful planning.
CHARLES TREMPER

The most plausible explanation after getting injected with the mRNA vaccine and developing immediately after debilitating conditions is the vaccine itself and not something else. Unless you are engaging in vaccine apologetics and trying to defend Pfizer.

And as someone else has said

You are defending Pfizer by proxy. And you're stretching out towards infinity to deny that these experimental Covid drugs aren't the reason for massive debilitating side effects being reported on an unprecedented scale, which is also defending Pfizer and Moderna even if you didn't intend it that way, that is the bottom line.

Yes when you have invested in the vaccines ideologically it comes as a shock when they do t work as intended. Many left leaning individuals feel exactly the same.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

The most plausible explanation after getting injected with the mRNA vaccine and developing immediately after debilitating conditions is the vaccine itself and not something else. Unless you are engaging in vaccine apologetics and trying to defend Pfizer.

So clearly you have evidence of this you're willing to post, or you making assumptions based on your bias?

Denial is a common tactic that substitutes deliberate ignorance for thoughtful planning.
CHARLES TREMPER