Biological sex & gender identity

a reply to: marg6043

After listening to her babble I too fear for the future of humanity.

a reply to: Grenade

She is defending one of the most horrendous things that can be done to the human body, mutilation, I get that, if is adults doing it, but when is supporting these horrendous mutilations on children then something is definitely wrong with individuals like this.

a reply to: Annee

You and your philosophy are a danger to children. You advocate for the drugging and mutilation of perfectly healthy children, it’s the very definition of child abuse. Shame on you!

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: jerryznv

What’s even more problematic is trying to assign sex to skeletal remains.

In all seriousness...that's not really a problem...medical examiners do that pretty quickly!

For sake of discussion though...my previous comment about "whatever they identified as before brain death"...would surely complicate the hell out of things for people pushing that agenda!

I mean really...can you imagine...I had this debate just a little bit ago:

A woman reported that her daughter had run away! She posted a picture of a young MAN with a beard and mustache, so naturally people were confused and began questioning the "daughter" statement! Clearly this daughter was male! My thought was this: Wouldn't you want to give police the most accurate description of the runaways sex (not what they identify as but what they really are) so that in the event a young male body was found, it wouldn't be dismissed as not the runaway?

I mean if my son or daughter was missing...what they identified as would be moot at that point in time...what they truly are (male or female) would be the description the police and people searching would have!

Anything outside of that makes zero sense to me!

a reply to: jerryznv

Indeed they can without a single thought or feeling even possible or considered.

Imagine a detectives face when you describe your missing male white child as someone who identifies as non-binary black giraffe. That’s when they start checking the floorboards and call in the sniffer dogs.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: jerryznv

Indeed they can without a single thought or feeling even possible or considered.

That's my thought too...how much clearer could biological science be than that?

Kind of kills the argument of brain scans, feelings, emotions, thoughts, agendas, etc...

None of that crap matters to the medical examiner identifying the sex of the skeletal remains on the scene!

originally posted by: jerryznv

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: jerryznv

Indeed they can without a single thought or feeling even possible or considered.

That's my thought too...how much clearer could biological science be than that?

Kind of kills the argument of brain scans, feelings, emotions, thoughts, agendas, etc...

None of that crap matters to the medical examiner identifying the sex of the skeletal remains on the scene!

Except the OP is about anti-transgender.

Using science as an excuse.

a reply to: Annee

Wasn't just your brain. Your body has a lot to do with it. It's not your brain that gets all tingly when you're turned on. And it isn't the brain that produces those hormones.

a reply to: Annee

Except the OP is about anti-transgender.

Using science as an excuse.

I certainly wouldn't know that...whatever anti-transgender is!

Science is a what exactly?

(knowledge from) the careful study of the structure and behavior of the physical world, especially by watching, measuring, and doing experiments, and the development of theories to describe the results of these activities:

Science

I suppose by it's very definition it can be used for about a hundred billion things...maybe more!

Interestingly enough...this definition describes the development of theories...that's pretty encompassing!

In either case...science can be used to prove or disprove what exactly? Theories?

a reply to: jerryznv

If Annee wants to make an argument that there’s some kind of soul or spirit at work which is outside observable reality and that soul is somehow another gender then I’ll give her hypothesis some credence. I can’t possibly rule out that which I don’t know. The problem being she’s an atheist so really can’t go down that path.

a reply to: jerryznv

Exactly, in a murder investigation a coroner or forensic investigator won’t even consider what the person identifies as, they’ll use scientific methods to assign biological sex. It’s hard to identify as anything when you’re dead, yet sex can still be determined.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: jerryznv

Exactly, in a murder investigation a coroner or forensic investigator won’t even consider what the person identifies as, they’ll use scientific methods to assign biological sex. It’s hard to identify as anything when you’re dead, yet sex can still be determined.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Exactly...good summarization of my thoughts about it!

originally posted by: jerryznv

In either case...science can be used to prove or disprove what exactly? Theories?

Depends on the science.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Annee

Wasn't just your brain. Your body has a lot to do with it. It's not your brain that gets all tingly when you're turned on. And it isn't the brain that produces those hormones.

You know this how?

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: jerryznv

In either case...science can be used to prove or disprove what exactly? Theories?

Depends on the science.

Hmmm...interesting theory!

There are no absolute truths in science; there are only approximate truths. Whether a statement, theory, or framework is true or not depends on quantitative factors and how closely you examine or measure the results.

Truth in science

I thought this was interesting...so I edited and added it!

Learning as I go!

a reply to: Annee

I've said many times I have two Transgender people in my life I love and adore.

They're both benefiting from their transition.

I try to support them to the best of my ability.

Both have reported they no longer have violent and aggressive outbursts and feel much more calm and compassionate than trying to fit into the gender roles they had been forced into all their lives. They are reporting being happier and smiling more and less depressive, although they both still experience challenges from folks who treat them rudely or ignorantly.

Nothing is perfect in life, but they're not dealing with toxic behaviors anymore that hormones have helped silence.

I pray for them everyday that they continue to find their peace in this world.

a reply to: GENERAL EYES

although they both still experience challenges from folks who treat them rudely or ignorantly.

Doesn't this apply to all people?

I pray for them everyday that they continue to find their peace in this world.

This seems to apply to all people too!

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

I went through dysphoria for the first time around age eight, and my mom explained what a tomboy was and that I was perfectly normal and that there was nothing wrong with me. That was that and the fugue passed quickly.

I remeember the awkwardness of the onset of puberty, but instead of having surgery to remove the effects of natural development, I bore through the awkwardness and don't really remember anything about it these days other than wearing baggy shirts and sweaters to keep the attention off my chest.

The second time I experienced the dysphoria, I was in my mid 20's and attending college, and I remember analyzing WHY I was having these thoughts and feelings and it basically boiled down to I felt that my social gorup would take me more seriously if I was a guy and not blow off my ideas so quickly all the time. It had more to do with the percieved power and respect that some men are given (I know now that this was a horrible and sexist stereotype, guys deal with things that even my little tomboy brain wouldn't be able to handle) and had nothing to do with sexual identity/preference or the desirte to have different sex organs.

It lasted about a week and never went further than chest binding and posing as a dude at a punk rock show once for me to figure out that, yeah....this isn't something I want to pursue beyond my little cross dressing experiement.

It's still kinda funny, because I've always prefered jeans and a tshirt (which is pretty androgyonous) but I still reserve the long skirts for special occassions when I know I won't be harassed and targeted by jerks and perverts treating me like some sort of plaything.

But on the bright side, I grew into my understanding of myself and came out stronger and more confident for it.

I cannot imagine how horrible it must be to go through a dysphoric phase of naive idealism and thinking a transition will "magically fix" all your social ills, power plays, struggles and insecurities, go through the hormone treatments and surgeries only to realize nothing has really changed and now you're a target for rude and judgemental assholes looking for an easy target to set their aggressions on.

I strongly suspect that's why the Trans Community has so many suicides.

There is no One Size Fits All solution here. It's all trial and error.

Personally, in the majority of cases, I'd spend more time trying to address the dysphoria and helping a client reintegrate their body and mind in a healthy dichotomy before committing to fast track transitioning, but unfortunately, puberty blockers have a time window and they're really pushing the treatment before most professionals can even determine if it's a genuine case or just a phase of Fantasy Prone Thinking and apprehensiveness about the natural progression into the next stage of human development.

It's very complicated.

a reply to: jerryznv

Well, yeah, of course. I try to include EVERYONE in my prayers.

Life ain't easy, and it's even more difficult when you're fighting with your Brothers and Sisters instead of working on agreeable solutions everyone can live with and benefit from.

It's endemic with a lot of the American Landscape these days.

I know not all of us are falling for it, but I'd rather hang out here on ATS where we can at least discuss our opinions and perspectives in a respectful way rather than jumping into the fray of certain "activist groups" and going out and making other people's lives hell by the threat of violence or targeted character assassination.

I don't think anyone here would advocate that, regardless of which side of the issue we're on.

Which is one of the many reasons why I love this community.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: jerryznv

If Annee wants to make an argument that there’s some kind of soul or spirit at work which is outside observable reality and that soul is somehow another gender then I’ll give her hypothesis some credence. I can’t possibly rule out that which I don’t know. The problem being she’s an atheist so really can’t go down that path.

If she does, then we're back to my opening argument on faith.

If we have to believe what transgenders believe, then they have to believe what Christians believe.