Russian soldiers crash in a foiled retreat from Kherson

a reply to: MykeNukem

NATO are not pointing ICBM in our direction.

That's Russia.

Same as there threatening to use them.

And they have been since as long as i can remember, which would be before the Berlin wall fell and the Soviet Union came apart.

NATO is the side on which our bread is buttered.

And people don't hate Russia persay just the autocratic totalitarian regime they have in place.

a reply to: andy06shake

I'm well aware of what the MSM says and what the going narrative is.

I remember when diplomacy was a thing, I know, I know, no room for negotiations...

Russia is willing to negotiate:


Lavrov:
- "ready to listen to our Western colleagues"
- "fully take into account the interests of the Russian Federation and its security"
- "offer us some serious approaches that will help defuse tensions."


Ukraine is not:


Zelensky:
"as long as Putin continues to serve as Russian president, we will refuse to reach a peaceful solution through negotiations."

Support your war.

Russia is weak AF but they're going to take the world over, I know...

I love hearing everyone defend both of these countries.
Both are ran by evil governments that pretend to give a damn about the welfare of its citizens.

Russia has shown to the world that their army is garbage and has been for a long time.
Their flagship was sunk because none of its defensive weapons worked..
What a perfect example of their military.

Ukraine on the other hand is kicking butt…
Of course that’s only because of all of the aid they are receiving.
Does anyone believe that they can locate and strike the building Russian generals are meeting in without US intelligence agencies telling them where to aim?

The only for sure outcome is the billions of dollars of tax payer money in arms sales for the next decade to replenish all of the expended materials.

a reply to: JAY1980

Ukraine killed 13k of it's own citizens from 2014-2022.

You're the type of person Putin loves. You believe every word he utters.

Did Ukraine Kill 14,000 Pro-Russians and Civilians?

The answer is no. 14,000 is the number of the total victims of the war in Donbass, killed by both parties between 2014 and 2021. 10,900 of them were soldiers

bitterwinter.org...

a reply to: Bluntone22

I don't think anyone believes that.

a reply to: gortex

I love how the video has to narrate what they want people watching to think.

Who recorded this again?

PROPAGANDA isn't just for Russians....

originally posted by: Bluntone22
I love hearing everyone defend both of these countries.
Both are ran by evil governments that pretend to give a damn about the welfare of its citizens.

Russia has shown to the world that their army is garbage and has been for a long time.
Their flagship was sunk because none of its defensive weapons worked..
What a perfect example of their military.

Ukraine on the other hand is kicking butt…
Of course that’s only because of all of the aid they are receiving.
Does anyone believe that they can locate and strike the building Russian generals are meeting in without US intelligence agencies telling them where to aim?

The only for sure outcome is the billions of dollars of tax payer money in arms sales for the next decade to replenish all of the expended materials.

I say let them do what they gotta do.

We should stay out of it, along with our tax dollars.

a reply to: MykeNukem

I'm well aware of what the MSM says and what the going narrative is.

Again its never been MSM pointing ICBM at my nation, but Russia.

I remember when diplomacy was a thing, I know, I know, no room for negotiations...

I think most people wish to see Russia go back home and come to the negotiation table in good faith to be honest.

Support your war.

Russia is weak AF but they're going to take the world over, I know...

I dont support war, or Russia's invasion of her neighbor under false pretenses.

And just because you say so hardly makes it the case. LoL

As to the rest of that nonsense aka claims Russia will take the world over, well that's why NATO exists to stop them from taking Europe, and the main reason the organization came about, so there is that.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: MykeNukem

I'm well aware of what the MSM says and what the going narrative is.

Again its never been MSM pointing ICBM at my nation, but Russia.

I remember when diplomacy was a thing, I know, I know, no room for negotiations...

I think most people wish to see Russia go back home and come to the negotiation table in good faith to be honest.

Support your war.

Russia is weak AF but they're going to take the world over, I know...

I dont support war, or Russia's invasion of her neighbor under false pretenses.

And just because you say so hardly makes it the case. LoL

As to the rest of that nonsense aka claims Russia will take the world over, well that's why NATO exists to stop them from taking Europe, and the main reason the organization came about, so there is that.

You fail to mention the part where Ukraine isn't and according to US rhetoric, won't become part of NATO. Except they will become part of NATO, because that's another lie.

Ukraine ISN'T NATO, right? So that argument falls flat.

ICBM's? Ok, let them launch one and then go annihilate them. THEN it would be our/your business. Easy.

We play world police, yet we're no more trustworthy than they are IMO.

a reply to: MykeNukem

I think if a nation chooses to become part of NATO is sweet feck all to do with Russia.

If in doubt, we'll see how many former Soviet Bloc nations chose to join for a start.

And for very good reason.

Ukraine will probably be part of NATO in the not too distant, same as Sweden and Finland.

And Russia will have driven them into NATO arms.

The only thing that's fallen flat is Putin's piss-poor failed invasion of Ukraine.

Because his piss-poor armed forces cannot cut the conventional mustard so to speak.

And hence the threat to use nukes.

Anyhoo good luck hating your own side.

Like i suggested i know perfectly fine well which side our bread is buttered, and thats sure as # not the Russian side.

a reply to: MykeNukem

They’ll never be part of NATO, but the UK, US, and Russia signed the Budapest Memorandum vowing to protect their sovereignty in exchange for them getting rid of their nukes.

Personally I wouldn’t mind us reneging on that, but I know that’s doubtful. I agree it shouldn’t be our fight, but it’s also disingenuous to say we have no justification for involvement, especially since it’s just material involvement at this point and not direct.

It’s hard to say if it was a bad deal since we never got to see what would have happened if a country experiencing a major restructuring had nukes without the failsafes of a stable government. Many could have been sold or used.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: MykeNukem

I think if a nation chooses to become part of NATO is sweet feck all to do with Russia.

If in doubt, we'll see how many former Soviet Bloc nations choose to join for a start.

And for very good reason.

Ukraine will probably be part of NATO in the not too distant, same as Sweden and Finland.

And Russia will have driven them into NATO arms.

The only thing that's fallen flat is Putin's piss-poor failed invasion of Ukraine.

Anyhoo good luck hating your own side.

My side has already made sacrifices in war.

Several of my family members have already made sacrifices.

Not sure why you have to go there but it's BECAUSE of the love I have for my country and the other countries of NATO that I don't want to make this mistake.

Russia simply isn't the USSR, they don't have the strength, nor the capabilities of the USSR, yet everyone is pretending they do.

If they mess with NATO then I say annihilate them.

That's called not going out of my way to start WWIII because of hate.

Not war, love.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

Agreed.

But, I think we (NATO) are going to get directly involved, I think they want to get involved.

If not, sure send them some hardware, I have no issue with that.

a reply to: MykeNukem

My side has already made sacrifices in war.

Several of my family members have already made sacrifices.

Snap, can i get you a hat and balloon?

Not sure why you have to go there but it's BECAUSE of the love I have for my country and the other countries of NATO that I don't want to make this mistake.

I dont love my nation, or even like it much, nor am i required to, still know which side i am on.

Russia simply isn't the USSR, they don't have the strength, nor the capabilities of the USSR, yet everyone is pretending they do.

Nope, nor are they ever likely to be reminiscent of such again, especially after their current antics.

Good luck convincing Vladimir Putin of the writing on the wall.

If they mess with NATO then I say annihilate them.

That's called not going out of my way to start WWIII because of hate.

Not war, love.

Glad you cleared that up, let's hope it does not come to that.

Because cooler heads need to prevail.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

They’ll never be part of NATO, but the UK, US, and Russia signed the Budapest Memorandum vowing to protect their sovereignty in exchange for them getting rid of their nukes.

That agreement became moot when the US engaged in a coup of the former Ukranian admin and when russia took Crimea.

I agree it shouldn’t be our fight, but it’s also disingenuous to say we have no justification for involvement, especially since it’s just material involvement at this point and not direct.

The only, ONLY justification we have for being involved is because we helped escalate. NATO carrots and lots of infrastructure "deals."

It’s hard to say if it was a bad deal since we never got to see what would have happened if a country experiencing a major restructuring had nukes without the failsafes of a stable government. Many could have been sold or used.

As is your style, you're trying to be pragmatic and even handed. IMO, it's wasted on both of these nations. Each driven by greed and power. Ours too for that matter, all the more reason to keep distance.

Preferably, Ukraine could be neutral. And with the resources it has, a wealthy one. Russia wanted this, while it also wanted its sphere of influence in the east, but the west wouldn't allow.

a reply to: andy06shake

Snap, can i get you a hat and balloon?

No thank you. A little respect for veterans will do.

I dont love my nation, or even like it much, nor am i required to, still know which side i am on.

You're the one who brought it up. I do love my Nation.

Nope, nor are they ever likely to be reminiscent of such again, especially after their current antics.

Good luck convincing Vladimir Putin of the writing on the wall.

Russia is willing to negotiate:


Lavrov:
- "ready to listen to our Western colleagues"
- "fully take into account the interests of the Russian Federation and its security"
- "offer us some serious approaches that will help defuse tensions."


Ukraine is not:


Zelensky:
"as long as Putin continues to serve as Russian president, we will refuse to reach a peaceful solution through negotiations."

Glad you cleared that up, let's hope it does not come to that.

Because cooler heads need to prevail.

That's what I'm saying.

a reply to: schuyler

Russian army is not exactly 100% full of innocent little Russian kids who are just defending themselves not knowing where they are. There's a lot of war criminals, alcoholics who enjoy it, crazy muslim Chechens, wagner nazis etc. We have no idea about true Ukrainian losses. Putin has caused a horrible tragedy both for Ukraine and zhe Russia. He will go down kicking and screaming but he will go down the hell soon. IMO Ukraine has no other option than to kill them all and let god sort them out. That's what you do when your country is invaded anyway. It leaves two scars. How many Americans were killed thanks to Soviets in Vietnam and Korea?
Putin may think that 70k is unfortunate but acceptable to fulfill his dreams. Russians have to take him out and start a new era with someone like Navalny.

“Peter the Great waged the great northern war for 21 years. It would seem that he was at war with Sweden, he took something from them. He did not take anything from them, he returned [what was Russia’s],” the Russian president said after a visiting an exhibition dedicated to the tsar. After months of denials that Russia is driven by imperial ambitions in Ukraine, Putin appeared to embrace that mission, comparing Peter’s campaign with Russia’s current military actions. “Apparently, it is also our lot to return [what is Russia’s] and strengthen [the country]. And if we proceed from the fact that these basic values form the basis of our existence, we will certainly succeed in solving the tasks that we face.”

I dont like to limit my compassion either so that I never feel like a devil.
It's a luxury tho. You wouldnt be able to do what's necessary while constantly thinking about weeping Russian mothers. Needless to say some of them are dumb and sick enough to empower their kids to kill the "hohols" as we witnessed in the intercepted phone calls. Hiding their kids somewhere would be smart. It may be easier said than done but the responsibility goes to them, then Putin, then his henchmen, other dumb Russians and at the end of the blame list may be someone from Ukraine or the west. Compassion has nothing to do with the blame game tho. It's only a coping mechanism. Let's embrace it as often as we can

a reply to: MykeNukem

No thank you. A ittle respect for veterans will do.

Plenty of respect there, your are hardly the only veteran of war all the same.

You're the one who brought it up. I do love my Nation.

I think you may find you are the one who brought up loving nations buddy if you go back and read your own words aka "Not sure why you have to go there but it's BECAUSE of the love I have for my country". LoL

Russia is willing to negotiate:

They are in the wrong postcode mate never mind retreat, its surrender they should be negotiating and offering up apologies in spades.

That's what I'm saying.

See we can agree on somethings, just not the broad strokes or so it seems.

a reply to: JinMI

That agreement became moot when the US engaged in a coup of the former Ukranian admin and when russia took Crimea.

Clearly I’m a westerner, so I don’t have a deep understanding of the wishes of Ukraine, especially in a historical context. But from what I’ve read (obviously skewed) Viktor Yanukovych ran for president there on the platform he would help them join the EU. They got almost to the table and he made a back room deal with Putin and pulled out at the metaphorical last minute. I think it came with some bailout loans, so maybe it was in the best interest for Ukraine, and this is the point that I believe would be up for debate.

If Ukraine elected him to get them in the EU, and he reneged, I could see why there would be protests. I could also see the US meddling as it’s kind of our MO. But I wouldn’t hammer it into stone as a definitive course of history.

The only, ONLY justification we have for being involved is because we helped escalate. NATO carrots and lots of infrastructure "deals."

I think the most favorable way we could paint it for the west is provocative, so here I agree. I can’t think of anything we did that was a clear attempt to calm the waters.


To your last point, that’s tricky. Ukraine is in Europe, and technically everything devolved because of their interest in joining the EU. That should be up to them, not Russia. I can appreciate Russian concerns, but that doesn’t justify leveling Ukraine purely for economic interests. And more than that, the country with the most land on the planet wants more via annexation.

I’ve been against most if not all invasions in my life time including the ones my nation conducted. If someone believes in freedom and self determination, it includes those you disagree with. But the point still stands that the US has more justification to be semi involved with Ukraine than it did with say Iraq.

The world isn’t perfect, and that includes the US which is often a bully. But it speaks volumes many nations would still rather lean to us than their former countrymen. And we could chalk that up as propaganda if almost every former Soviet nation didn’t lean away from one of the most brutal regimes of modern history.

a reply to: andy06shake
Anyhoo good luck hating your own side.

Did you say that? Yes?

THAT's why I brought up the love of my Nation.

Nothing else to say to ya since you can't even be honest.