They paid people to shame and insult the unvaxxed...

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: Asmodeus3

It was your good self that made claims about left wing politics so how is asking you to clarify your claims "straw man"?

You said this:


"Blending politics with science is a major issue. Just as the left wing tries to do by vaxxing everyone and everything for the greater good. They are involved quite a lot in shaming others who are their political opponents, the 'anti-vaxxers' and they are engaged in some bizzare ideologies."

You aimed that reply to two UK posters who have queried your claims and asked you which lefties here have been "vaxxing everyone and everything"?

Is that not a fair question? Given your claims?

I am sure you can differentiate between Government and political activists and different lobbies.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

I see.

But please answer the actual points.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

Yes.

But that's not the point.

Where are the lefties who vaxxed everyone here?

During a Tory Govt with a right wing Old Etonian PM?

I am as baffled about this as you it appears?

So left wing activists want to vaccinate everyone and so the right wing tory party decided to offer vaccines to people.

Who are these left wing activists that have the power to make the conservative party do what they want?

I'm asking because apparently I am one of them and if I've got that power I'm going to make a few changes.




a reply to: Oldcarpy2

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: RazorV66

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: MaxxAction

Where was any shaming of the unvaxxed in all that?

Whaaaaaaaaaat?
You must have a really short memory.

You have to excuse me, as I am not an American, and so don't know of any shaming of anti-vaxxers that may have happened on US media.

However, I do appreciate that if there are insufficient numbers of people who partake in a vaccination campaign, then community resistance to the pathogen will not be sufficient for the campaign to be effective, and this will lead to unnecessary and preventable deaths.

But none of the published details in the OP were attempting to shame anyone.

I suspect that anti-vaxxers may be feeling guilty, and be interpreting a campaign in favor of vaccination, as shaming them.

Since you are from the UK and since it seems there are many members who are from the UK and also happen to be left wing or left wing activists here is an article from two academics from Oxford


Shaming Unvaccinated People Has To Stop. We’ve Turned Into An Angry Mob And It’s Getting Ugly

blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk...


It seems that shaming is true and it's happening in a large scale. In your country, the UK, and everywhere else. Not only the two academics admit there is shaming of the unvaccinated but they demand it stops immediately. And they use the word 'mob'...

I am not from the UK.

I am Australian citizen permanently resident in New Zealand.

Ok. Good you clarified.

See my post above. Shaming seems to be very real and the two academics argue it must be stopped immediately.

But of all the initiatives being funded by the government and mentioned in the OP, none were specifically for the purpose of shaming anyone.

They were funding to promote a health initiative through the media, and could have been misused to do so, however the idea wasn't about leaving people with a bad feeling. It was to try and get enough people to vaccinate against a prevalent disease.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: RazorV66

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: MaxxAction

Where was any shaming of the unvaxxed in all that?

Whaaaaaaaaaat?
You must have a really short memory.

You have to excuse me, as I am not an American, and so don't know of any shaming of anti-vaxxers that may have happened on US media.

However, I do appreciate that if there are insufficient numbers of people who partake in a vaccination campaign, then community resistance to the pathogen will not be sufficient for the campaign to be effective, and this will lead to unnecessary and preventable deaths.

But none of the published details in the OP were attempting to shame anyone.

I suspect that anti-vaxxers may be feeling guilty, and be interpreting a campaign in favor of vaccination, as shaming them.

Since you are from the UK and since it seems there are many members who are from the UK and also happen to be left wing or left wing activists here is an article from two academics from Oxford


Shaming Unvaccinated People Has To Stop. We’ve Turned Into An Angry Mob And It’s Getting Ugly

blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk...


It seems that shaming is true and it's happening in a large scale. In your country, the UK, and everywhere else. Not only the two academics admit there is shaming of the unvaccinated but they demand it stops immediately. And they use the word 'mob'...

I am not from the UK.

I am Australian citizen permanently resident in New Zealand.

Ok. Good you clarified.

See my post above. Shaming seems to be very real and the two academics argue it must be stopped immediately.

But of all the initiatives being funded by the government and mentioned in the OP, none were specifically for the purpose of shaming anyone.

They were funding to promote a health initiative through the media, and could have been misused to do so, however the idea wasn't about leaving people with a bad feeling. It was to try and get enough people to vaccinate against a prevalent disease.

I did post an article where two academics from the UK were specifically asking for shaming to be stopped. Do you remember it?

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: Asmodeus3

I'm sure they will but you are moving goal posts here.

Your claim was that it was lefties who were vaxxing everyone.

Please stick with that?

We all know that the problem is left and right mean different things politically depending on what country you live in. and have shifted over time, at least in North America. These labels are probably best not used on a forum with international reach unless the discussion is clearly about a particular country.

a reply to: igloo

Agreed, but if I am going to be labelled a Socialist, which is a very specific and universally well defined thing, Id quite like to know why?

Pretty sure that the Tories and Boris can't by any standard be classed as lefties.

Which was my point.

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

People can call you whatever they want mate.

Being completely wrong does not seem to be something that bothers some of the members here apparently.

a reply to: chr0naut

What planet do you hail from?? It can't be this one if you have YET to figure out that your government, my government, all governments will do whatever they can to convince you to live the way they want you to, and they couldn't give two #s about violating your rights, scaring you to death, or #ing over your mind so that you do.

Maybe you also missed what I posted about how they panned to study the different approaches and see which one worked the best to get the citizens to comply??

Personal Freedom Message
1/15 of the sample will be assigned to this intervention, which is a message about how COVID-19 is limiting people's personal freedom and by working together to get enough people vaccinated society can preserve its personal freedom.

Economic freedom message
1/15 of the sample will be assigned to this intervention, which is a message about how COVID-19 is limiting peoples's economic freedom and by working together to get enough people vaccinated society can preserve its economic freedom.

Self-interest message
1/15 of the sample will be assigned to this intervention, which is a message that COVID-19 presents a real danger to one's health, even if one is young and healthy. Getting vaccinated against COVID-19 is the best way to prevent oneself from getting sick.

Guilt message
1/15 of the sample will be assigned to this message. The message is about the danger that COVID-19 presents to the health of one's family and community. The best way to protect them is by getting vaccinated and society must work together to get enough people vaccinated. Then it asks the participant to imagine the guilt they will feel if they don't get vaccinated and spread the disease.

Embarrassment message
1/15 of the sample will be assigned to this message. The message is about the danger that COVID-19 presents to the health of one's family and community. The best way to protect them is by getting vaccinated and by working together to make sure that enough people get vaccinated. Then it asks the participant to imagine the embarrassment they will feel if they don't get vaccinated and spread the disease.

Trust in science message
1/15 of the sample will be assigned to this message about how getting vaccinated against COVID-19 is the most effective way of protecting one's community. Vaccination is backed by science. If one doesn't get vaccinated that means that one doesn't understand how infections are spread or who ignores science.

originally posted by: MaxxAction
a reply to: chr0naut

What planet do you hail from?? It can't be this one if you have YET to figure out that your government, my government, all governments will do whatever they can to convince you to live the way they want you to, and they couldn't give two #s about violating your rights, scaring you to death, or #ing over your mind so that you do.

Maybe you also missed what I posted about how they panned to study the different approaches and see which one worked the best to get the citizens to comply??

Personal Freedom Message
1/15 of the sample will be assigned to this intervention, which is a message about how COVID-19 is limiting people's personal freedom and by working together to get enough people vaccinated society can preserve its personal freedom.

Economic freedom message
1/15 of the sample will be assigned to this intervention, which is a message about how COVID-19 is limiting peoples's economic freedom and by working together to get enough people vaccinated society can preserve its economic freedom.

Self-interest message
1/15 of the sample will be assigned to this intervention, which is a message that COVID-19 presents a real danger to one's health, even if one is young and healthy. Getting vaccinated against COVID-19 is the best way to prevent oneself from getting sick.

Guilt message
1/15 of the sample will be assigned to this message. The message is about the danger that COVID-19 presents to the health of one's family and community. The best way to protect them is by getting vaccinated and society must work together to get enough people vaccinated. Then it asks the participant to imagine the guilt they will feel if they don't get vaccinated and spread the disease.

Embarrassment message
1/15 of the sample will be assigned to this message. The message is about the danger that COVID-19 presents to the health of one's family and community. The best way to protect them is by getting vaccinated and by working together to make sure that enough people get vaccinated. Then it asks the participant to imagine the embarrassment they will feel if they don't get vaccinated and spread the disease.

Trust in science message
1/15 of the sample will be assigned to this message about how getting vaccinated against COVID-19 is the most effective way of protecting one's community. Vaccination is backed by science. If one doesn't get vaccinated that means that one doesn't understand how infections are spread or who ignores science.

Not yet as it seems. It's not clear as it seems.

a reply to: MaxxAction

Other opinions are just as valid as yours?

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: Smokeygurl
a reply to: Oldcarpy2
It's not very helpful to use erroneous labels like "antivaxxers" in response.
Maybe everyone can at least quit with the hateful language??

The language is used to stigmatise others SVD us politically driven. There is no such term as an anti-vaxxer. It's politically motivated.

There is indeed a lot of shaming for those who decided not to have the jabs regardless of the attempts by some members here to downplay this or even claim there was nothing much.

From a canadian perspective, I saw the vehement use of the word "antivaxxer" among my university educated friends for the last decade and have no proof but feel it was instilled among that crowd to prepare for our times. They tend to be liberal voters and thinkers and have offered me up various think tanks to support their ideas, their "truth" but I question if it's truth when it's subversively funded etc.

One man was constantly posting his volatile comments against anyone who would send their children to school unvaccinated. He has a sickly child himself, so I understand on one level, but he is blind to the fact he and the child's mom have had weaknesses right back since we were all teens and the mom succumbed to hers a few years ago. I see them as quite out of touch with nature, as in their academic world, nature is something to be studied, not be a part of. Keeping at arms length etc.

What stood out to me was my friends taking this position and widely panning "antivaxxers" had an outrage disproportionate to any real life risk long ago. It was the trendy thing to support for ages. They'd slam any parents who thought otherwise regardless of reason. I am always suspicious of why but I think fear is quite blinding too.

Not, trying to open a can of worms here, just trying to express that I feel the hatred toward the unvaxxed was pre-primed decades ago among those who had already lost touch with reality/nature. By contrast, all the farmers I know keep a healthy skepticism of everything. A few of them got them shots hoping to get the ordeal over sooner, but none of them dismissed others rights to their bodily choices like almost all the city people did.

Just my perspective based on where I live and the two groups of people I hang out with, or used to. Cut ties with the city folk because while I appreciate their education, discussion was not allowed.

a reply to: igloo

Try questioning some folks beliefs on here and you'll see some hatred!

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

Sure...

but if your opinion is that the sky is orange, when it's obviously blue, that isn't a valid opinion is it??

a reply to: MaxxAction

But, sometimes, it is orange.

Sometimes it's grey.

Never seen a sunset?

See what I mean?

a reply to: MaxxAction

If you can't see that your opinion is an opinion and not a fact then it's time to take a stand back and re evaluate your position.

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

I can tell you with certainty that you are both wrong.

I've just looked outside and the sky is black.

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

If you and I are looking at a blue sky...

and we both see it's blue, but you try to tell me it's orange, what then??

I mean, the claim that the governments of the world didn't try to shame us all into getting vaxxed is just ridiculous. We know they did, for months they did. Doctors, nurses, Health agency spokespeople, congressmen, even our dementia riddled president tried everything they could to get people to take the vaxx, chief among them was shame and guilt.

a reply to: nonspecific

Again...

do I deny what I see with my own eyes?? There were 60 second commercials here in the US that did nothing but puke guilt all over people for not getting vaxxed. "You're going to kill somebody" was the message.