Russia Ukraine Update Thread - part 3

originally posted by: BernnieJGato
a reply to: Kenzo

you know they call the T-72 design and most of the one that followed jack in the box.

wonder if their gonna have a speaker system that plays the jack in the box tune pop goes the wessal.

Well I thought Russian tanks were part of their space program. Hit the point now where Russia is sending T62s to the front. The irony is that the tanks after 1963 were more complicated and had more problems making it difficult for them to get battle ready. They are using the t 62s because they don't have special optics or any options for a modern tank really.

a reply to: dragonridr

They are using the t 62s because they don't have special optics or any options for a modern tank reall

nah man it's because they done used all the newer wore out junk they had in the bone yard, the 62's all they have left.

the reason the turrets blow off is it a design flaw, and all their tanks up to the T-14 to my understanding are are based off the T-72 with some upgrades there have been reports of t-90's which are a little better with turrets partially blown off, the base is the same. they were losing their turrets in other conflict zones it was also seen in iraq and chechnya not just in Ukraine.

the armor is not as thick on the turret and much of the ammunition is stored there and under it. when hit and penetrated the ammunition cooks off and over pressure blows the turret off.

originally posted by: paraphi
It's only an escalation if you want Ukraine to perish under the jackboot of Russian repression and terror. If you take the contrary position, which is giving Ukraine the means to defend itself, it's a de-escalation in the long-run because it will bring the war to the end which does not involve genocide.

I agree Russia are the aggressor here-But it remains to be seen if this will be enough to push back Russia,or just keep Ukraine holding on.
We can argue about if the new round of NATO gear is escation or not-But the kremlin certainly see it as such,and already threatened repurcussions before the Ramstein meeting.

I am no Putin supporter,but Ukraine and the allies are not guaranteed a peaceful happy time if Ukraine take back all their territory.That may be the most dangerous point.
Its a seeminlgy impossible situation which may in the end come down to Putins state of mind if and when he loses.

25 January Update

* Russian forces may be engaging in limited spoiling attacks across most of the frontline in Ukraine in order to disperse and distract Ukrainian fronts and launch a decisive offensive operation in Luhansk Oblast.

* Russian forces claimed that Ukrainian forces conducted counteroffensive operations near Svatove as Russian forces continued limited ground attacks near Kreminna.

* Ukrainian forces have likely made advances around Kreminna.

* Ukrainian officials acknowledged that Ukrainian forces withdrew from Soledar.

* Russian forces continued offensive operations in the Bakhmut and Avdiivka-Donetsk City area. Russian forces reportedly continued localized offensive operations near Vuhledar.

* Russian forces continued to conduct small-scale ground attacks across the Zaporizhia Oblast front line, likely to attempt to fix Ukrainian forces in Zaporizhia Oblast.

More at URL above.

Me: The delivery of western tanks to Ukraine will come with challenges. First, unless the number delivered is increased to several hundred, they will only make a difference in selected areas of the front. (Note well-- commanders well versed in armored warfare could use to that their advantage and force Russian retreat from areas broader than the initial armored forces breakthrough.) Second, what should have happened is delivery of only one kind of tank to keep logistics, training, and other support as uncomplicated as possible. While the Ukrainians will appreciate the modern tanks, they are effective only so long as they are in working order. I also wonder about the bridges in Ukraine, as in, are there enough that are wide enough for these tanks and can they handle 70 ton vehicles? It is details like these that can have significant operational impact.

Cheers

a reply to: Kenzo

Thanks for the URL, it was an interesting read.

Cheers

a reply to: F2d5thCavv2


Ok .

Another event in Ukraine, Russia bombed Turkish ships in Kherson :


Russia Carries Out Missile Strikes Against Turkish Ships In Kherson

Since the outlook of the German public was recently mentioned in this thread, some may find this article of interest.

"Spiked" 's views are in opposition to the narratives of the MSM, interesting takes at times.

Cheers

a reply to: F2d5thCavv2


Quite big drop on trusting goverment.


Frau Merkel was a disaster, i allways was stunned that Germans had such big trust of her .

Not sure how accurate this is

This visualization of Western tanks for Ukraine

Russia are warning about the use of depleted uranium munitions used by leopard tanks-

Source: Konstantin Gavrilov, Head of the Russian delegation in Vienna at the OSCE Forum on Military Security and Arms Control; Kremlin-aligned news outlet RIA Novosti and Russian BBC editorial office

Quote from Gavrilov: "We warn the Western sponsors of the Kyiv military machine against encouraging nuclear provocations and blackmail.
We are aware that the Leopard 2 tank, as well as the Bradley and Marder infantry fighting vehicles, are armed with sub-calibre armour-piercing shells with uranium cores, the use of which leads to contamination of the area, as it happened in Yugoslavia and Iraq.
If Kyiv is supplied with such shells for NATO heavy military equipment, we will consider it to be the use of dirty nuclear bombs against Russia with all the ensuing consequences."

news.yahoo.com...

But..Russia also use DU in some tank shells-

A Russian Defense Ministry bulletin said Russian T-80BV tanks would be armed with these powerful munitions, according to Russia’s TASS news agency. The bulletin noted that “the T-80BVM (the letter M stands for ‘modernized’) features ‘the improved weapons stabilizer and the loading mechanism for the 3BM59 Svinets-1 and 3BM60 Svinets-2 munitions.’”
The Svinets-1 has a tungsten carbide core, while the Svinets-2 uses depleted uranium. according to the Below the Ring armor site, published by a pair of Dutch defense experts. A 2016 post speculated that Russia might have been producing these special rounds for several years as replacements for existing tank ammunition.

nationalinterest.org...

So,its OK for Russia to use DU but if anyone else does its a dirty bomb.

Not a fan of the tanks being sent by Europe/US, seems to be a unnecessary escalation. Time for the ukes to stand on their own. The ukraine isn't worth full fledged WW3. Keep poking the bear and eventually the bear will poke back

originally posted by: MatteBlak
Not a fan of the tanks being sent by Europe/US, seems to be a unnecessary escalation. Time for the ukes to stand on their own. The ukraine isn't worth full fledged WW3. Keep poking the bear and eventually the bear will poke back

the unnecessary escalation took place last february and the bear poked hard then and got poked in the eye for its foolishness. russia needs to lose and know it lost so it stops invading its neighbors because ukraine was not the first and wont be the last unless they are stopped completely....

a reply to: LouisCypher

The problem with that is if Russia sees it is going to lose, nuke are going to fly. Id rather see the ukraine fall than full on nuclear war

a reply to: MatteBlak

no they wont because putin and his henchmen are all pussys and afraid to die its all talk on their end. so many redlines have been crossed if you listen to putin it should have happened already 10 times by now....

seems like direct response to the tank news, a civilian target, so far they are staying with their doctrine..non military targets made to seem like carelessness..its not


a reply to: Kenzo

a reply to: MatteBlak

The problem with that is if Russia sees it is going to lose, nuke are going to fly. Id rather see the ukraine fall than full on nuclear war

So, we cave in and let Putin march all across Ukraine because he's threatened the world with nuclear bombs.
And what happens a year or two down the line when he decides he wants Moldova?
Then Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia?
Where does it stop?

All so he can fulfil his dreams of Greater Russia and secure his Great epithet?

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: MatteBlak

The problem with that is if Russia sees it is going to lose, nuke are going to fly. Id rather see the ukraine fall than full on nuclear war

So, we cave in and let Putin march all across Ukraine because he's threatened the world with nuclear bombs.
And what happens a year or two down the line when he decides he wants Moldova?
Then Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia?
Where does it stop?

All so he can fulfil his dreams of Greater Russia and secure his Great epithet?

I dont see Putin making a move against a NATO country because it would generate a response. That is why he went after the ukraine. Doesnt seem like he wants all of it either. Probably a unpopular opinion but i dont see much difference in Putins ukraine invasion and the US invasion of Iraq.

a reply to: MatteBlak

They have to get their delivery systems to the front line first without detection. My bet is the US and NATO intel would know as soon as the mutterings and moment of Russia 's nuclear deterrent starts rolling.

Putin understands that such a provocation will lead him him to being pulled from the rubble just like Saddam Hussein was, and the inevitable overthrow and downfall of him and his grip on Russia including major change in Russian democracy would most likely ensue, it'd be history in the making.

I'd educate a guess that there are plenty of insiders who'd happily plot and get the job done to avoid a literal disaster and the death of millions if not billions, in turn a war that cannot be won.

a reply to: Kenzo

Looks like Putin is determined to p*ss off the world against Russia

Way to go and make friends and allies .....

a reply to: Kenzo

PM for @Kenzo

Cheers