No vaccinations for the under 50s!!!!!

a reply to: Itisnowagain

I can't find a link to a risk assessment and I don't think they would be avalible for the public but there is a committee meetings site with links to minutes.

Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation

a reply to: nonspecific

That plan failed badly then didn't it? I think the current death by vaccine figure is about 15.

well depends on who you believe, lots of folks are suffering form side effects that are documented, and not all the long term consequences have been documented yet.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

As we know it all became prescient given what happened vis a vis clotting issues ands the later platelets issue..

its going to take a good decade to unravel it all.. we can only hope society survives it all, but at this juncture I'm not sure healthcare will.. the only way left for healthcare now is the tech revolution..

its really sad but its their own fault, neither king Lud or captain Swing can change that outcome, not for insurance, financial; services, healthcare, railways or any of the other professions about to undergo massive change but in terms of need and speed healthcare will be first up to the block as the failures keep mounting..

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: Itisnowagain

I can't find a link to a risk assessment and I don't think they would be avalible for the public but there is a committee meetings site with links to minutes.

Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation

The JCVI also didn't approve vaccinations for the 12-15 age group

news.sky.com...

But for once more recommendations and science were set aside in the name of politics and profit.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

It doesn't matter how many times you say it, you're incorrect.

Do you see any politicians listed in the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation COVID-19 main committee I posted?

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: Asmodeus3

It doesn't matter how many times you say it, you're incorrect.

Do you see any politicians listed in the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation COVID-19 main committee I posted?

That is a strawman argument for once more.

The JCVI didn't recommend vaccinations for the 12-15 year old. Fact!

news.sky.com...


The vaccine task force wasn't planning to offer the vaccines to anyone under the age of 50. Fact!

www.ft.com...


The vaccines were not meant to be for the young and healthy as their safety and effectiveness hasn't been established even to this day.

You are getting refuted repeatedly. But that's expectable when your arguments are confusing emergency authorisation and vaccine safety or when you make claims that 640 million people have died from Covid...

a reply to: Asmodeus3


www.gov.uk/government/publications/universal-vaccination-of-children-and-young-people-aged-12-to-15-years-against-covid-19/universal-vaccination-of-ch ildren-and-young-people-aged-12-to-15-years-against-covid-19

The Chief Medical Oficers advice to vaccinate 12 to 15 year old.

Top link not working but you can get to it from below

ukhsa.blog.gov.uk...

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Asmodeus3


www.gov.uk/government/publications/universal-vaccination-of-children-and-young-people-aged-12-to-15-years-against-covid-19/universal-vaccination-of-ch ildren-and-young-people-aged-12-to-15-years-against-covid-19

The Chief Medical Oficers advice to vaccinate 12 to 15 year old.

Top link not working but you can get to it from below

ukhsa.blog.gov.uk...

Yes I know that too!
After by-passing the advise from the JCVI C
committee which didn't recommend vaccinations for the 12-15. It seems that he knows better or there are some 'mysterious' forces in action.

news.sky.com...

But that's nothing in comparison to the plan the vaccine task force had not to vaccinate the under 50s so not to cause freak harm as Kate Bingham said

www.ft.com...

It seems there is massive disagreement between scientists and some very 'mysterious' forces play ball around here...

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Asmodeus3


www.gov.uk/government/publications/universal-vaccination-of-children-and-young-people-aged-12-to-15-years-against-covid-19/universal-vaccination-of-ch ildren-and-young-people-aged-12-to-15-years-against-covid-19

The Chief Medical Oficers advice to vaccinate 12 to 15 year old.

Top link not working but you can get to it from below

ukhsa.blog.gov.uk...

In a few words it seems that vaccine safety has been sacrificed for political, ideological and financial reasons. When the Head of the vaccine task force says that we won't offer the jab to anyone under the age of 50 so not to cause freak harm than there is nothing else anyone can add up.

Unless someone is a vaccine apologist.

a reply to: ScepticScot

This is the advice from the top health officials in the UK!?

Junk science. Vaccines don't stop transmission, they merely (one hopes) prevents severe infections/hospitalizations.
Unless the UK health officials condone sending vaccinated COVID positive kids to school to infect their classmates, this advice is based on pseudoscience.

The Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) looked at the direct health benefits of vaccines, and in the case of 12 to 15 year olds, they said that there was only a small advantage for young people in getting a dose of the vaccine.

The Chief Medical Officers (CMO's) took into account the extra health benefits from avoiding children missing education and concluded that there were public health grounds to recommend vaccinating 12 to 15 year olds. The UK CMO's advice sets out their reasoning here.

That was true, but temporary. What got lost in the messaging was that the shots’ protection against mild illness was bound to decline over time, Offit said. Public health officials should have made clearer that the principal goal was to prevent disease severe enough to lead to hospitalization or death. That’s what the vaccines delivered:

“If I could go back in time, right then when our committee was presented with those data in December [2020], I think we should have stood up or people should have stood up and said: ‘Realize that this protection is great. And we hope this protection holds up against severe illness and keeps you out of the hospital and keeps you out of the ICU and keeps you from dying. But this protection against mildly symptomatic illness is not going to hold up over time.’ And that’s what happened. Six months later, protection faded

www.propublica.org...

originally posted by: zosimov
a reply to: ScepticScot

This is the advice from the top health officials in the UK!?

Junk science. Vaccines don't stop transmission, they merely (one hopes) prevents severe infections/hospitalizations.
Unless the UK health officials condone sending vaccinated COVID positive kids to school to infect their classmates, this advice is based on pseudoscience.

The Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) looked at the direct health benefits of vaccines, and in the case of 12 to 15 year olds, they said that there was only a small advantage for young people in getting a dose of the vaccine.

The Chief Medical Officers (CMO's) took into account the extra health benefits from avoiding children missing education and concluded that there were public health grounds to recommend vaccinating 12 to 15 year olds. The UK CMO's advice sets out their reasoning here.

That was true, but temporary. What got lost in the messaging was that the shots’ protection against mild illness was bound to decline over time, Offit said. Public health officials should have made clearer that the principal goal was to prevent disease severe enough to lead to hospitalization or death. That’s what the vaccines delivered:

“If I could go back in time, right then when our committee was presented with those data in December [2020], I think we should have stood up or people should have stood up and said: ‘Realize that this protection is great. And we hope this protection holds up against severe illness and keeps you out of the hospital and keeps you out of the ICU and keeps you from dying. But this protection against mildly symptomatic illness is not going to hold up over time.’ And that’s what happened. Six months later, protection faded

www.propublica.org...

Are we sure that the risks don't outweigh the benefits of vaccination? Because there are many voices lately and there have been throughout the pandemic stating the vaccines in young and healthy populations can cause serious harm.

The vaccine task force was the first to point out this possibility through Kate Bingham.

www.ft.com...

a reply to: zosimov

They protects from infection as well, just not for as long.

Also kids getting more serious infections are going to miss longer at school and potentially develop longer term complications.

The evidence is (unless has changed recently) that the vaccines do reduce the likelihood of spreading covid. Even small reductions can have big impact on the overall number of cases.

a reply to: zosimov

This JCVI?

www.gov.uk...

Junk science?

Hardly.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: zosimov

They protects from infection as well, just not for as long.

Also kids getting more serious infections are going to miss longer at school and potentially develop longer term complications.

The evidence is (unless has changed recently) that the vaccines do reduce the likelihood of spreading covid. Even small reductions can have big impact on the overall number of cases.

This kind of rhetoric and repetition of the narrative is the least convincing and at odds with what happens in reality. Not taking in consideration the risk to benefit ratio when vaccinating children, the short, medium and long term effects, and natural immunity.

The JCVI didn't recommend vaccinations for the 12-15 age group and prior to this the vaccine task force wasn't even thinking to vaccinate anyone under the age of 50.

But politics, ideology, and financial interests, prevailed.

The chance kids getting seriously sick or die from Covid are extremely small and there is a real possibility you harm many more than you try to save.

www.ons.gov.uk...- by-age

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: zosimov

This JCVI?

www.gov.uk...

Junk science?

Hardly.

.

The JCVI didn't recommend vaccinations for the 12-15 age group. But it was by-passed... by external forces.

news.sky.com...

Prior to this (need to be repeated) the vaccine task force wasn't even thinking to vaccinate anyone under 50. But again... external forces in progress.

And let's see some stats for the week ending 23rd of September 2022

www.ons.gov.uk...- by-age

85+ 107 deaths
75-84 58 deaths
65-74 37deaths
55-64 11 deaths
45-54 2deaths
25-44 2 deaths
15-24 0 deaths
1-14 0 deaths
Under1 0 deaths

(") The 25-44 is an obscuring piece of data as it engulfs those who are in their 30s. Anyone can see that this shouldn't happen?! There should have been a 25-34 group.

There were 217 deaths altogether involving Covid in the week ending 23rd of September and 213 occured in the 55+ which is around 98.16%

The under under 50s have a miniscule risk in getting sick and die from Covid given the millions of infections and the presence of very good natural immunity which has been achieved long time ago.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

I was replying to the poster who called the JCVI "junk science" and posted the actual source.

Is all.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

Like I said earlier, just repeating the same lines is not winning your argument.
You said politicians were making the decisions so I linked to the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation COVID-19 group, along with the chief medical officer, it was these people who were making the decisions on vaccinations.
Member "ScepticScot" also proved your assumption wrong again.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/universal-vaccination-of-children-and-young-people-aged-12-to-15-years-against-covid-19/universal-vaccination-of-ch ildren-and-young-people-aged-12-to-15-years-against-covid-19

The Chief Medical Oficers advice to vaccinate 12 to 15 year old.

Top link not working but you can get to it from below

ukhsa.blog.gov.uk...

Also, as I stated previously by making it personal like you're attempting to do makes your argument look weak and unwinable, I take it you've never made a mistake in posting here, oh wait, yes you have along with your poor spelling. Do you see me pointing that out in every response to you?
A very sad attempt at trying to make yourself appear better than you are.

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: Asmodeus3

Like I said earlier, just repeating the same lines is not winning your argument.
You said politicians were making the decisions so I linked to the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation COVID-19 group along with the chief medical officer. it was these people who were making the decisions on vaccinations.
Member "ScepticScot" also proved your assumption wrong again.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/universal-vaccination-of-children-and-young-people-aged-12-to-15-years-against-covid-19/universal-vaccination-of-ch ildren-and-young-people-aged-12-to-15-years-against-covid-19

The Chief Medical Oficers advice to vaccinate 12 to 15 year old.

Top link not working but you can get to it from below

ukhsa.blog.gov.uk...

Also, as I stated previously by making it personal like you're attempting to do makes your argument look weak and unwinable, I take it you've never made a mistake in posting here, oh wait, yes you have along with your poor spelling. Do you see me pointing that out in every response to you?
A very sad attempt at trying to make yourself appear better than you are.

The JCVI committee didn't recommend vaccinations for the 12-15. It was by-passed by politics.

Likewise the vaccine task force wasn't even thinking to offer the jabs to anyone below the age of 50. Again politics played ball and not science.

I am not making it personal and I am only pointing to the flaws of your reasoning. In addition you have made a range of arguments that are not correct like conflating emergency authorisation with vaccine safety and misunderstanding the number of infections as number of deaths.

I said politics played ball together with politicians which of course you keep misrepresenting. As if I don't know who takes decisions. Politicians were influencing these decisions. That's what has happened. Do you get it now?

a reply to: Kurokage


The stats for the week ending 23rd of September in case you want to have a look.



85+ 107 deaths
75-84 58 deaths
65-74 37deaths
55-64 11 deaths
45-54 2deaths
25-44 2 deaths
15-24 0 deaths
1-14 0 deaths
Under1 0 deaths




www.ons.gov.uk...- by-age