A trap for the intellect

a reply to: andy06shake

I wouldn't care to speculate there NobodySpecial268.

One might get lynched . . .

Especially if one started drawing comparisons between spiritual worlds and quantum physics, causatively speaking.

One might get burned at the stake . . .

The phrase that got my attention:

" . . . . our world would cease to exist without someone awake to observe and "collapse the wave function"."

(evil and mischievious grin)

How are they like the collapse of a wave function?

Wave function collapses without the observer.

I went into the nature of the human spiritual worlds in depth and practicality in another thread. It comes from a unique view, a non-human view - through the eyes of the fae as they see the world of human thought. Fae = Sith for example.

It is also why I say there is an outside and an inside to human thought. Especially where philosophical and religeous constructs are concerned. "Thinking as thought", as far as I know, is unique to the human. I haven't come across it in other Beings from the unseen realms. One has to communicate elsewise unless they have experience with humans.

Collective consciousness is very much like a dream. When the last dreamer stops dreaming the dream disappears.

So a question: Why are holy books so important?

and:

What is achieved by book-burnings?

I am of the opinion that the spiritual worlds of man are dreamscapes that are interactive, shared and persist in the 'landscape'. When people become devout and pious the dream becomes a waking dream that persists as an overlay on the waking consciousness.

Collective consciousness is very much like a dream. When the last dreamer stops dreaming the dream disappears. - thus the posibility of wave function collapse.

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Edit to add:

The connection to quantum physics (of which I know sweet Fanny Adams) is presuming I understand correctly: 'Wave function collapses without the observer' as equivalent to 'collapse of a reality'.

If so, then I may suggest quantum physics has more to do with consciousness than physical nuts and bolts atoms and molecules.

a reply to: NobodySpecial268

So a question: Why are holy books so important?

Well, they are of importance to the people who place their belief systems in such.

Every single one of them however is a product of man with all his fear and fallibility at play.

What is achieved by book-burnings?

Stupidity, hubris, intolerance, religious fanaticism, and promotion of racist ideologies spring to mind.

People that burn books should climb in next to them imho.

You don't destroy information because you are afraid of it and only the worst sort of racist or religious maniacs would ever consider doing so.

a reply to: andy06shake

Holy books keep everyone on the same page, and book burnings destroy that.


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Edit to add: Keeps scientist folks on the same page. Historians too. ; )

The concept of "book burnings" as a sociological tool is not something I advocate by the way.

a reply to: NobodySpecial268

Holy books keep everyone on the same page, and book burnings destroy that.

I think they may be responsible for a bit more than just keeping 80% of people on the planet on the same page mate as is clearly evidenced via history and the religious wars and strife that have taken place in the name of our gods.

Also said holy books are not all claiming the same thing or even anything resembling such.

Each to their own all the same.

greater reality exists outside our minds,

Well said Andy, I would put extra emphasis on "greater" .

a reply to: Terpene

It's a great topic to spitball and discuss and i enjoy doing so with the majority of people here at ATS including yourself.

a reply to: Terpene
Has a 'mind' ever been found though?

'Mind' is just an idea....a word.

Really there is thought appearing and disappearing.....just words popping up telling stories.

No one does thought...... it's all just happening.

Perhaps I should clarify.

Wha tI am suggesting based on my own observations is the human spiritual worlds are constructs of mind and in particular human thought and abstract thought. Built from the ground up rather than from above down.

The value of books is to create a coherant across the board description of spiritual infrastructure.

The practice of book burnings is a tool certain people use as a way of destroying what they want to replace.

Wikipedia for instance has a horrifyingly long list of historical book-burnings.
List of book burnings - wikipedia.

One may suggest that book-burnings are the basis of spiritual warfare between ideologies.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Has a 'mind' ever been found though?

'Mind' is just an idea....a word.

One can say that the definition of "mind" is 'the sense of being me'. It helps if one is aware of the boundaries of self.

That is discoverable for oneself.

Edit to add: Boundaries define what is my mind and the minds of others. The 'me' and the 'you'.

I found it in myself.

a reply to: NobodySpecial268

I don't see anyone here coming along and promoting the notion of burning books to be a good thing put it that way.

Personally, i see the burning of books being as a way to intimidate people who don't think or share the same beliefs as the Muppets doing the burning.

To add some context the people responsible for the Spanish Inquisition burned books same as the Nazi scum in the last century.

a reply to: andy06shake

Thanks andy, this sentiment is definetly reciprocal.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Yes if you break every thing down to the moment, nothing exists outside said moment... I agree but i found this state of mind infinitely boring, and ultimately very limiting in my endeavor to enjoy the ride with all it's ups and downs. Being is such a treat, not diving into it with all it's illusions seems disrespectful. It takes quite some tweaking to be able to have this sense of separation, why would I want to escape it? There is plenty of time for that state of mind you promote, but it's not here and not now, at least not for me...

a reply to: NobodySpecial268

a reply to: Itisnowagain

So where does one live? The world of the living, or the world of the dead?

In both one needs a sense of self.

In the world of the dead, the kids I know will fade away if they don't create memories for themselves.

I'm not sure if Krishnamurti the Indian chap, or his master advocated loosing the sense of self altogether.

a reply to: NobodySpecial268
Who needs a sense of self?

Life is doing it all.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Who needs a sense of self?

Perhaps you like having a sense of 'selflessness', but that is not everyone's cup of tea.

Life is doing it all.

Interesting statement "life is doing it all". Are you refering to the interface between the experiencer and the world around them?

One can coast and let the world do all the work I spose.

a reply to: NobodySpecial268
The seer and seen arise as one seamless happening.

Life is in free fall.

Travel light or carry a dead weight.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

The seer and seen arise as one seamless happening. Life is in free fall.

Now for life to 'happen in free fall' does not there have to be a boundary to define the seer and the seen?

one might think of an apple pie. Now cut a slice of pie for your supper, say 72 degrees. Let's call that 72 degree slice the seer.

That leaves a second slice, a slice of 288 degrees as the seen.

As a uncut circle there is no seer nor seen.

Just an analogy of why separation and boundaries might be needed.