China: Ancient Pyramids + Explosions: "Underground Forests in Mystery Holes of Guangxi"

a reply to: JamesChessman

Those places look like known cases of nature-created features, no need to imagine a mysterious civilization and supposed nuclear war to explain them, you just need to learn geology.

PS: the original YouTube video now says "Unavailable in your country", so I had to look for an alternative.

Alright now, here's quoting myself from page 2, it is the quote that mentions the YD Impact triggering the last chapter of The Last Ice Age, within a decade.

For what it's worth, the wiki page for the Younger Dryas event is really quite dry, and rather unclear.

I think what IS safe to say, is that there was a specific period of HUGE cataclysmic changes on Earth, around 11,000 yrs ago.

Here's one small quote from the wiki, saying that Earth's climates CHANGED SUDDENLY AND DRAMATICALLY:



The change to glacial conditions at the onset of the Younger Dryas in the higher latitudes of the Northern Hemisphere, between 12,900 and 11,500 calibrated years BP, has been argued to have been quite abrupt.[16] It is in sharp contrast to the warming of the preceding Older Dryas interstadial. Its end has been inferred to have occurred over a period of a decade or so,[17] but the onset may have even been faster.


^Within a decade! That's practically INSTANT climate change...

a reply to: ArMaP

Those places look like known cases of nature-created features

Ok...

no need to imagine a mysterious civilization

The Vedas are the oldest historical written-record on Earth, IIRC... and they clearly report that there was an ancient, technologically-advanced civilization on Earth, thousands of years ago, who were destroyed in ancient nuclear war.

PS: the original YouTube video now says "Unavailable in your country", so I had to look for an alternative.

^The documentary from "Our World?" What kind of alternative are you looking for, videos about the mountains and caves in China?

originally posted by: ArMaP
a reply to: JamesChessman

Who said the caves were carved?

And, again, without dates all of that is meaningless.

To be crystal-clear, this is a completely separate topic from everything else.

But yes, there are ancient, carved cave-systems in China, which are established in mainstream science as CARVED, ancient caves.

It's been a few years since I looked into it, but this would be a good time to jump back into that.

If I post pics, you'd see the obvious carvings everywhere, there are regular lines carved into walls & ceilings, there are statues carved into the walls, etc.

There are tons of images so this would actually be lovely to jump into, again.

(The site's Upload seems down again but hopefully...)

originally posted by: JamesChessman
The Vedas are the oldest historical written-record on Earth, IIRC... and they clearly report that there was an ancient, technologically-advanced civilization on Earth, thousands of years ago, who were destroyed in ancient nuclear war.

The Vedas are far from the oldest written documents, there are several Egyptian and Babylonian documents more than 1000 years older.
Also, stating they are written-records is a stretch, as there is no way of knowing if they are records of real events, fiction or religion. As far as I know, there are no other texts or traditions outside that region that confirm what the Vedas say.

^The documentary from "Our World?" What kind of alternative are you looking for, videos about the mountains and caves in China?

No, an alternative source for that exact video, since I am not able to watch it on YouTube.
I found one and downloaded it, just in case.

originally posted by: JamesChessman
But yes, there are ancient, carved cave-systems in China, which are established in mainstream science as CARVED, ancient caves.

OK, I just wanted to know if it was "official" or not that those caves were manmade.
There's one manmade cave where I live, but I never looked into it to try to find how old it is.

(The site's Upload seems down again but hopefully...)

You can use the non-HTTPS version of the link: img.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: ArMaP

The Vedas are far from the oldest written documents, there are several Egyptian and Babylonian documents more than 1000 years older.

Alright, I have not sat down with this specific topic, and so I have not really made a point of deciding the absolute oldest records on Earth.

And when I wrote that, I wondered if it was going to be controversial / argued against, which is fine, and OK I haven't specifically poured over this one topic.



We learned in school that cuneiform was the oldest writing, the clay-imprints used mainly to count different items like livestock & crops etc., so I knew that was considered the oldest writing, and I wasn't really counting that though.



But I just did a quick web search and cuneiform seems to be considered the oldest writing.

Cuneiform is an ancient writing system that was first used in around 3400 BC. Distinguished by its wedge-shaped marks on clay tablets, cuneiform script is the oldest form of writing in the world, first appearing even earlier than Egyptian hieroglyphics.

www.historyextra.com...








Alright so the thing with the Vedas is that they are telling stories of ancient history / fiction. Ancient civilizations inhabiting Earth and eventually destroying themselves in warfare.

It's completely beyond the scope of cuneiform AFAIK.

Plus, the actual timelines in the Vedas are insane, and I don't know the specifics, but there are several thousands' years of stories preserved, apparently.

So I think the content is reaching back more thousands of years, than any other writing.






Ancient Egyptian writing / hieroglyphics, I'm not convinced that anyone can really read it or make sense of it, objectively / accurately to the original meaning. So I really don't think anyone's really made heads or tails, of ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics / writing.

originally posted by: JamesChessman
Plus, the actual timelines in the Vedas are insane, and I don't know the specifics, but there are several thousands' years of stories preserved, apparently.

Apparently.
Anyone can write any thing about any time, past, present or future.

So I think the content is reaching back more thousands of years, than any other writing.

I thought so, but what you think doesn't make it true.

Ancient Egyptian writing / hieroglyphics, I'm not convinced that anyone can really read it or make sense of it, objectively / accurately to the original meaning. So I really don't think anyone's really made heads or tails, of ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics / writing.

You should really stop being that dismissive of other people's studies and work. If you do not know a thing about a subject, why do you dismiss the opinion of people that have studied those subjects for many years?

PS: I suppose you have read about the Rosetta stone.

You always read the stories of civilizations under mountains. If there was and you drilled that mountain out or dropped a bomb on it I would think it would look like this.

a reply to: ArMaP

OK, I just wanted to know if it was "official" or not that those caves were manmade.
There's one manmade cave where I live, but I never looked into it to try to find how old it is.

^Re: the ancient carved cave-systems in China: I think it's more the idea that the cave-system was probably formed naturally, for the most part, and then some ancient people carved almost every surface of it. Lines everywhere, statues and Buddhas carved into the walls, etc.

But sure, it's possible that actual entire rooms were carved out, too. But the rooms are so HUGE that I think they mostly resemble natural caverns etc. that were then covered in apparently handmade carvings...

You can use the non-HTTPS version of the link: img.abovetopsecret.com...

^Thanks, OK I'll dig into this later. Like I said, it's been a few yrs since I looked into these carved cave systems in China but I remember there were tons of photos and it's amazing.

There's apparently no clear answer re: exactly who did the carvings, or when.

And then the topic goes nuts when you start wondering if the government could be editing the ancient carvings...

originally posted by: iwanttobelieve70
You always read the stories of civilizations under mountains. If there was and you drilled that mountain out or dropped a bomb on it I would think it would look like this.

a reply to: ArMaP

Apparently.
Anyone can write any thing about any time, past, present or future.

Well, the Vedas present their stories as historical fact, and I believe them.

It's easy to dismiss it as fiction but it would also be pretty pointless for the ancient Indians to make up complex stories and timelines and just pretend they were historical record.

What would the point be. Selling cheap paperback novels, thousands of years ago? Or just making up complex stories & timelines for no reason...

a reply to: ArMaP

I thought so, but what you think doesn't make it true.

The Vedas present themselves as true historical record. Which might make it actually true.

You should really stop being that dismissive of other people's studies and work. If you do not know a thing about a subject, why do you dismiss the opinion of people that have studied those subjects for many years?

You're wrong in assuming that I don't know about it. Actually, I do, inasmuch as I've been interested in such topics for years, and I've formed informed-decisions about it. Mainly, I've concluded that no one really can read or understand the original meaning of hieroglyphics / ancient Egyptian writing.

The presumed experts are wrong in their entire approach from the start, I'm convinced of it.

PS: I suppose you have read about the Rosetta stone.

Absolutely, I even have a T-shirt with the Rosetta stone on it.

Guess what, it doesn't prove that anyone can actually legit translate / read ancient Egyptian writing / hieroglyphics.

originally posted by: JamesChessman
Well, the Vedas present their stories as historical fact, and I believe them.

Anyone can create a story and say it's true.

What would the point be. Selling cheap paperback novels, thousands of years ago? Or just making up complex stories & timelines for no reason...

All religions are supposed to be based on events presented as true.

originally posted by: JamesChessman
The Vedas present themselves as true historical record. Which might make it actually true.

It doesn't "make it true", it's either true or not, regardless of what the writings say or what I think.

The presumed experts are wrong in their entire approach from the start, I'm convinced of it.

They are all wrong and you are right? Sure...

Absolutely, I even have a T-shirt with the Rosetta stone on it.

Guess what, it doesn't prove that anyone can actually legit translate / read ancient Egyptian writing / hieroglyphics.

Why?
Are you used to doing translations or to decode cyphered texts?

a reply to: ArMaP

Anyone can create a story and say it's true.

Right.

But also, the ancient Indians wrote complex historical timelines of thousands of years of advanced civilizations, and they presented as historical fact, and I believe it.



Also the more you think about it, the less compelling it is, to dismiss everything as fiction.

Sure, everyone CAN create fiction and call it fact, but it's actually not common in today's world, despite teeming with fictional media, the modern world manages to keep clear what's fictional. Marvel superhero movies, Sonic the Hedgehog, novels / comicbooks etc. For the most part, the modern world does NOT present fiction as fact, rather we enjoy fiction as fiction.

And if there was cataclysm, and it took several thousand years in the future, for a new wave of people to look through the rubble of our modern world: We still wouldn't really have our fiction presented as fact, I expect that our fiction would still be clear as fiction. Twilight books, movies, rap music, videogames, etc., I think it would be clear that it's fiction. It's not really presented as historical fact, at all.

All religions are supposed to be based on events presented as true.

^That's sort of a loaded statement, and impossible to really even address all the implications of that statement, but I think that what stands alone, is the OLDEST ancient historical records, like the Vedas.








And... no, it's not really part of every religion, to report complex historical timelines of the distant past, whether true or fictional.

I think the Vedas are unique in this aspect.





For starters, there are some religions that are more ancient, and some that are newer.

The more ancient religions feature ancient historical timelines, like the Vedas, and I think they are the absolute oldest records of history, on Earth.




Likewise the ancient Torah / Old Testament / Jewish texts, do stretch back into ancient thousands of years, though I think it's not reaching as far back as the Vedas, as I think they trump all other ancient historical records.








And so then the newer religions don't report ancient timelines of history, like that, the newer religions are rather built on top of the older religions.

So the ancient Jewish texts just became incorporated into Christianity as the Old Testament before the New Testament. So Christianity basically adopted the Jews' ancient stories, the Christians didn't make up their own new ancient histories. Christianity basically just incorporated Jewish texts, and then mostly limited Christianity's focus on the new time, starting from Jesus.

And so even in this limited scope of new time, there is a little bit of mythology about Jesus, but it's MOSTLY been the DESTRUCTION of history, even re: the life of Jesus, even most of his life has been lost.

So I think Christianity has been more anti-history, altogether, rather than respecting history, let alone reporting complex timelines like the Old Testament and best of all, the Vedas.






And then Islam is newer than Christanity and Judaism, and I think they have even less interest in such ancient timelines. I think they mostly focus on their own holy book, and mostly disregard the ancient timelines altogether, AFAIK.





In India there's the same situation of older and newer religions, the older ones report the ancient timelines, and the newer ones, not so much.

The big two religions being Hinduism with the ancient Vedas stretching back into unknown thousands of years, and then Buddhism is the new kid on the block, in the last 2600yrs. Buddhism is mainly focused on health & wellness, and I think it's fair to say that it did not make up complex ancient timelines of history like the Vedas have such ancient records. Like Jesus, the Buddha got a little bit of mythology about him, but really emphasized the new way of life, more than anything.





Taoism, I don't know much of anything about the formal religion, but... I do love its foundational book, the Tao Te Ching. A very small book of poetry about life. So I get the impression that Taoism probably has almost-no emphasis on ancient complicated historical timelines -- I mean it's sure NOT in its foundational book, anyway. It's possible that the formalized religion might have developed in certain ways but their ONE main book, does NOT contain any history at all.

a reply to: ArMaP

It doesn't "make it true", it's either true or not, regardless of what the writings say or what I think.

The point is that the Vedas present themselves as historical truth. So they give that idea, themselves, and it might be true (that it's historical records).

They are all wrong and you are right? Sure...

I can be right that generally no one has figured out how to read / translate / understand ancient Egyptian writing / hieroglyphics.

Why?
Are you used to doing translations or to decode cyphered texts?

No. But there are at least 2 big reasons to doubt that the Rosetta Stone was starting off the translations correctly.




1.
First of all, if we are honest about it, the typical modern translations of ancient Egyptian writing / hieroglyphics, is SELF-EVIDENT that it's RIDICULOUS.

All the flowery language about spirituality / mythology / spiritual beliefs etc. It's freakin' garbage. It's filling in UNKNOWN MEANING with stupid, vapid nonsense. Everything's a prayer, a blessing, a legend, a spiritual metaphor.

It's TRASH. And it should be self-evident enough, that it's a lot of unknown meaning filled-in with assuming the ancient Egyptians were basically idiots, who were writing / carving long, drawn-out mumbling about spiritual metaphors and such.






2.
Obviously the entire PREMISE of using the Rosetta Stone to translate ancient Egyptian, the entire premise could have been wrong.

Simply the hieroglyphics on the Stone could be... a different message than the other featured messages.

That would mean that all attempts at translating ancient Egyptian writing & hieroglyphics are fundamentally false.

And it's not really a very impossible idea, that the one message was just a different message.

a reply to: ArMaP

Also, stating they are written-records is a stretch, as there is no way of knowing if they are records of real events, fiction or religion. As far as I know, there are no other texts or traditions outside that region that confirm what the Vedas say.

Well the Vedas themselves say that they're true records of ancient history.

And I think you're right that they are the only such ancient records surviving to this day. Yet that doesn't disqualify them, and they WOULD stand alone, if they were the only such surviving records of ancient history.

For one aspect, the Vedas report the ancient nuclear war destroying the previous advanced civilizations inhabiting Earth. Presumably that nuclear war was also the Younger Dryas Impact Event.

So that all means that maybe, the Vedas might actually BE the only single surviving record of Earth's oldest history, because they report the entire world being killed in nuclear war, and that could have destroyed other older records, along with destroying the advanced civilizations altogether.

So it fits the narrative that the Vedas are the oldest surviving records of human history. It fits the narrative of their content.

And it doesn't need to be assumed to be disqualified just because it might be the only such record.








Plus... I think the other OLDEST records of human history / mythology... like the Torah / Old Testament etc., I think such ancient records DO feature the similarity of ANCIENT ADVANCED civilization. The Book of Ezekial for example is famous for describing flying objects, "wheels within wheels."

So there's THAT similarity of the most ancient records reporting such ancient advanced civilizations and tech., although the Torah / Old Testament etc. is not reaching back as far as the Vedas, I believe they report the oldest records of all.

originally posted by: JamesChessman
But also, the ancient Indians wrote complex historical timelines of thousands of years of advanced civilizations, and they presented as historical fact, and I believe it.

As I said before, you believing it doesn't make it true, in the same way me not believing it doesn't make it false.

To know if it's true or false we need more information, preferably from other sources. If those other sources confirm it then it's more likely to be true, but if there are no other sources then it's less likely to be true.

Also the more you think about it, the less compelling it is, to dismiss everything as fiction.

Why?

Sure, everyone CAN create fiction and call it fact, but it's actually not common in today's world, despite teeming with fictional media, the modern world manages to keep clear what's fictional. Marvel superhero movies, Sonic the Hedgehog, novels / comicbooks etc. For the most part, the modern world does NOT present fiction as fact, rather we enjoy fiction as fiction.

"It's not common today" means nothing when we are talking about what happened thousands of years ago.

And if there was cataclysm, and it took several thousand years in the future, for a new wave of people to look through the rubble of our modern world: We still wouldn't really have our fiction presented as fact, I expect that our fiction would still be clear as fiction. Twilight books, movies, rap music, videogames, etc., I think it would be clear that it's fiction. It's not really presented as historical fact, at all.

It depends, you cannot really know if a future JamesChessman4000 would believe James Bond or Harry Potter stories were true.

^That's sort of a loaded statement, and impossible to really even address all the implications of that statement, but I think that what stands alone, is the OLDEST ancient historical records, like the Vedas.

The Vedas are not the oldest texts and you cannot honestly state they are historical records.

So the ancient Jewish texts just became incorporated into Christianity as the Old Testament before the New Testament. So Christianity basically adopted the Jews' ancient stories, the Christians didn't make up their own new ancient histories. Christianity basically just incorporated Jewish texts, and then mostly limited Christianity's focus on the new time, starting from Jesus.

I wasn't thinking about Christianity.

And then Islam is newer than Christanity and Judaism, and I think they have even less interest in such ancient timelines. I think they mostly focus on their own holy book, and mostly disregard the ancient timelines altogether, AFAIK.

I wasn't thinking about Islam either.

The big two religions being Hinduism with the ancient Vedas stretching back into unknown thousands of years, and then Buddhism is the new kid on the block, in the last 2600yrs.

The Vedas are supposed to have been written some 3500 years ago.

And no, I wasn't thinking about any Asian religions.

originally posted by: JamesChessman
The point is that the Vedas present themselves as historical truth. So they give that idea, themselves, and it might be true (that it's historical records).

Or not. Considering there aren't any known supporting evidences I prefer to think they are not true.

I can be right that generally no one has figured out how to read / translate / understand ancient Egyptian writing / hieroglyphics.

Tell that to the people that learned how to read them. Do you think they are all idiots that are told things they do not confirm? Do you think they learn it and not apply it to writings they haven't seen before?

1.
First of all, if we are honest about it, the typical modern translations of ancient Egyptian writing / hieroglyphics, is SELF-EVIDENT that it's RIDICULOUS.

All the flowery language about spirituality / mythology / spiritual beliefs etc. It's freakin' garbage. It's filling in UNKNOWN MEANING with stupid, vapid nonsense. Everything's a prayer, a blessing, a legend, a spiritual metaphor.

If you are reading religious texts it's natural that they are full of spirituality, if you are reading the accounting books you are not supposed to find spirituality there.

2.
Obviously the entire PREMISE of using the Rosetta Stone to translate ancient Egyptian, the entire premise could have been wrong.

Simply the hieroglyphics on the Stone could be... a different message than the other featured messages.

That would mean that all attempts at translating ancient Egyptian writing & hieroglyphics are fundamentally false.

Again, do you think nobody confirmed it? Do you think they translated some symbols and accepted them all as true without confirming with writings for which they had an idea of the subject? Do you think the Rosetta Stone had all the symbols used and it was used as complete dictionary instead of a starting point to decipher the hieroglyphs?

Now, that's unrealistic!

Someone that does translations is always looking for confirmation of the meaning of the whole sentences, not just the words or parts of the sentences, like automated translators do. Human translators know that the sentences should have a meaning and, if they have any kind of clue about the topic of the document they use that to see if the translation and the supposed topic make sense.

PS: I don't know if I told you, but I make translations between Portuguese, English, French and Spanish. I also do it at a personal (not professional) level with Italian and just a little with German, of which I know very little, but enough to understand a few sentences. Translating texts in a language in which were are not at ease implies a lot of confirmation, like any serious work should.