Abortion? Again? My opinion? Im a man. I shouldnt have 1.

a reply to: Skepticape

You're welcome

a reply to: mysterioustranger

Clear enough we can actually. I understand it was made a state law again and I agree, because it got into federal law the wrong way. But effectively 99% of babies that would be killed before overturning it will still be killed, just in another state. If you would stop being stubborn we could actually prevent it everywhere with a little compromise.

a reply to: ElitePlebeian

One can be born alive and die, and one can be born still....and brought to life.

Now. Where does the "living" part start? Conception? Birth?

I been doin this EMT for years and Ive no real clue. I guess breathing is living...not breathing, isnt.

a reply to: mysterioustranger

Id say a heartbeat, not a sperm and eggcell barely melted together.

Anyway care to reply to the rest of my post?

Basically it boils down to the question if you want Democrats to baby kill and stick to your opinion or do you want to compromise and do something about it...

to those that say one should NOT have an opinion because they are not a member of an effected group, I say BS! here's the definition of opinion:
NOUN
a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge:

Stop trying to redefine the language! I can have an opinion on ANY subject. PERIOD!

the phrase 'its the woman's choice not the man' is emotionally charged and distorts the discussion into an my choice vs your choice argument, rather than a the Constitution guarantees right to life argument, it might be in her body but its not her body, its another life. it was never about men choosing anything, that detracts from why its opposed, its opposed because its murder of innocents, choice or no choice, religion or science, its denying an unborn American citizen life so unless the mothers life is endangered she should have no choice in the matter. its not about his choice, its not about her choice, its about giving an innocent a chance to life regardless of anyone's choice because everyone has a right to life.

not letting myself get caught up in the emotional manipulation employed by 'pro choice' advocates to derail reasonable arguments against abortion that I've always seen and fell for in the past.

originally posted by: 00018GE
to those that say one should NOT have an opinion because they are not a member of an effected group, I say BS! here's the definition of opinion:
NOUN
a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge:

Stop trying to redefine the language! I can have an opinion on ANY subject. PERIOD!

I don't know; it may be an informative exercise.

The Democrats should get a focus group together of adults whose mother seriously consider aborting them and ask them how they feel about abortion.

Gentlemen,

We're Sperm Donors.

We have no rights.

But I want you to think about what you would say to your Daughter about this situation. How would you try to raise her? To keep her from getting into that position to begin with.

How would you want her to feel, were she in need of an Abortion. What would you do for her?

I've talked to several women over the last couple of days and tried to reassure them that it will turn out ok.

They need to look forward. They need to look for solutions.

Just something to think about.

a reply to: ElitePlebeian

This just gets me. We went thru all this 50 yrs ago. Womans rights. I protested. We burned draft cards, womens bras, voter registration cards....anything we could to make the point and to p-ss off the Man.....and damn.

We're here again. There is no more valid point then leave women in charge of themselves. Rights.

a reply to: ElitePlebeian

EP "...Basically it boils down to the question if you want Democrats to...." Are you serious?

You think abortion, womens rights.. is a Democratic or Republican thing? Ever been out of the country? Them damn Dems down in Haiti...France...India, Denmark....Sobs in Africa too. Learn Swahili and got tell them that their abortions are a Dem thing. Um...excuse?

Geez, that a very sheltered way of thinking.

Maybe now you can see farther that the shores of America. It is a WOMAN thing.

a reply to: ElitePlebeian

Back again. I thought about it. So. What are YOU going to do about it? Your question.
Thanks

originally posted by: mysterioustranger
a reply to: ElitePlebeian

This just gets me. We went thru all this 50 yrs ago. Womans rights. I protested. We burned draft cards, womens bras, voter registration cards....anything we could to make the point and to p-ss off the Man.....and damn.

We're here again. There is no more valid point then leave women in charge of themselves. Rights.

I think once you have a developed fetus in you that is not really yourself anymore.

And I think I misunderstood I thought you were pro life somehow.

I cant do much about it im European 🤣. We have abortion although the limit is higher than id like, thats why I vote pretty conservative.

originally posted by: mysterioustranger
a reply to: ElitePlebeian
You think abortion, womens rights.. is a Democratic or Republican thing? Ever been out of the country? Them damn Dems down in Haiti...France...India, Denmark....Sobs in Africa too. Learn Swahili and got tell them that their abortions are a Dem thing. Um...excuse?

Where did I say that? Im saying if Republicans are smart they stop being stubborn and take control in all of the states when it comes to abortion. The moment they propose an ammendment for abortion but with very strict time period democrats are either desperate enough to agree to almost anything. Or they will fight it making the debate about the limit of abortion, and then Republicans are on the stronger side i suspect, because most people associate a heartbeat with life.

a reply to: mysterioustranger

Then I guess no person has a right to say that killing newborns is evil, and according to you no person has a right to stop the murder of newborns by their parents... After all, progressives/leftist professors, doctors, philosophers, etc have been arguing for over a decade now that newborns are the same as the unborn, and as such that parents should be able to murder newborns the same way that parents can decide to murder unborn babies, including if the baby is healthy.

Alberto Giubilini1, Francesca Minerva2

Correspondence to Dr Francesca Minerva, CAPPE, University of Melbourne, Melbourne, VIC 3010, Australia; [email protected]

Abstract

Abortion is largely accepted even for reasons that do not have anything to do with the fetus' health. By showing that (1) both fetuses and newborns do not have the same moral status as actual persons, (2) the fact that both are potential persons is morally irrelevant and (3) adoption is not always in the best interest of actual people, the authors argue that what we call ‘after-birth abortion’ (killing a newborn) should be permissible in all the cases where abortion is, including cases where the newborn is not disabled.

After-birth abortion: why should the baby live?

I find it ironic how some people want to make this argument. Could you imagine if back when DEMOCRATS used to love to have slaves if they could get away with murdering Black Americans by just saying "no one else is entitled to say what I should do with my slave"?... After all, just like the pro-murder crowd argue today to DEMOCRATS Black slaves were not human, they were property and the slave masters cold do whatever they wanted with them...

That's not mentioning the FACT that the pro-abortion/pro-murder crowd are the same people that want to force everyone to pay for their abortions... So it's okay to force people to pay for the murder of unborn humans that the pro-murder crowd want, but we can't have an opinion or say anything about it?... GTFO...

BTW, you should stop mentioning God since the bible is full of passages in which it is stated that unborn humans are gifts from God, and that God knows us even before we are born. In the bible the life of unborn babies is the same as the life of a grown adult.

...
22 When people who are fighting injure a pregnant woman so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no further harm follows, the one responsible shall be fined what the woman’s husband demands, paying as much as the judges determine. 23 If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
...

biblehub.com...

In other words in the eyes of God the life of an unborn human is the same as the life of an adult. If you think differently then perhaps you shouldn't claim to be Christian or much less Catholic.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

You have the right to say what you want for sure.

IDK about you but I am in the I mind my own #ing business camp. I am not really for or against the abortion issue because people have their own reasons (benefit of the doubt they have good ones) and more philosophically the abortion/ murder thingie. IDK about that either.

When the gooberment gets their tits in a bunch and makes an issue out of something like this be sure it isn't to benefit anyone of us simpletons on either side of the moral spectrum, the assholes running the # show are trying to slim things down a bit to petty levels as to make it to such a point that it becomes difficult for us simple folks to discover we agree on more then we disagree on really. Instead of talking about improvements and enriching our lives as communities and a country we argue over other things one thing at a time.

Sick times we live in, fo sho

have a cold one on me


I drink one with you too.

originally posted by: mysterioustranger
But, boy do I. I marched for this 50 years ago. Not again! Why not just slap women in the face and kick em as well? This is my take...albeit up-the-middle-ground. And ladies? God, y'all gotta know I love you all. No man can birth no watermelon.

Oh course expectant fathers and others are and should be part of any decisions within their circle. Affecting the lives, future and destiny of the "soul" (instead of the "unborn" for purposes here.) is imperative. These decisions or no decisions, happen and will continue to happen throughout the future. So, what do we think "life" is about? When is it, when is it not? And can it be "maybe", "sort-of"...kinda pregnant, now Im not?

Im not asking for your own explanation of womanhood, Im telling you. No one has any right to tell anyone, anything other than opine about what they may believe is right as opposed to wrong. At the end of the day...I cannot tell a woman anything about her decision making. Believe me. Ive been married 3 times...

I believe in the sanctity of life...and potential life. But no way in H-ll do I have any single right to even pretend to understand this decision, or should try to influence one.

I think God knows both sides. All things come from God. What may not...is all the untold pressures of bringing a child into the world that a woman has to decide, care about, maintain...or refrain.

God bless you ladies. All of you. Let no one man, person, government sway your resolve and heart: whatever way you choose. It is a heavy burden for women, but Ill stay silently by any decision made...because Ive never met a man who could 'birth no baby.

Best

The following bold part was at the end of this rant but I decided to move it to the top so people dont waste their time.

Sorry this post is long. It's not an attack on OP; all seemingly personal references are generalized and it's just a rant of a pretty centralized logical mindset. Read it or not, who cares? 😅


I'm not for abortion. I understand the need for abortion. People need to understand the need for abortion. Not recreational abortions, medically necessary, problematic pregnancies, rape/incest abortions. There can never be an outright bam. We cannot allow live birth abortions. There needs to be a compromise and people need to suck it the eff up and quit being narcissistic pukes of sh!t. It's not about any one person; any one group, it's about the entirety of our nation - the collective - what makes (made) us the strongest country in the world. This fighting over basic constitutional sh!t is ridiculous. Abortion is not a 'protected right' and has no federal or constitutional oversight and therefore should be kicked back to the states and the people. As it has.

This whole "men shouldn't have a say" narrative is absolutely garbage any way you look at it. Abortion affects all of us. Men, women, white, black (more so, 4x the rate). Those are all contributing citizens. How many great scientific minds have we lost? How many great leaders? How many [insert whatever here]? Sure, that goes for serial killers and all the negatives too, but alas.. it still affects all of us. Are all babies female? Something tells me no.

We're right to have an opinion. Not only because it's our goddamn first amendment, ya know, one of those constitutional rights that are real, unlike abortion, but because they're our kids too. Why is it such a hard concept to understand? Where's the "equality?"

So much failed logic, or lack of logic, prevalent these days. It's nuts. Absolutely bonkers. This sh!t makes Amber Heard look normal. Literal violence being advocated for against SCOTUS? How about the vandalism? The burning of churches? Pregnancy centers? Does all of this only affect women too or do men get an opinion yet? Am I missing where these all women communities are that are being attacked by mobs of all women thugs? Men can only have an opinion when that opinion is the same as a womans.... lol. Y'all just have absolutely no clue anymore.

a reply to: Brotherman

I pointed out how progressives/leftists in academia have already been arguing to legalize infanticide since there is no difference between newborns and unborn humans, and leftists want to legalize "after birth abortion" or the murder of newborns even when they are healthy. You have nothing to say about that?

What about the fact that such liberals/left-wingers like Peter Singer have admitted that the argument for abortion can also be used to argue no just in favor of infanticide, but also for the genocide of certain humans?...


Peter Singer's Argument for Infanticide

Should we also have no say whatsoever about legalizing the murder of newborns like left-wing/liberal/progressives want? Or the legalization of murdering adults as well that left-wingers/progressives claim do not deserve to live?...

Do you even know what evil empire used such arguments that "certain humans don't deserve to live" and those "humans were labeled as "inhumane" which led to the murder of millions of innocent people and even children?...

The phrase "life unworthy of life" was a Nazi designation for the segments of the populace which according to the Nazi regime had no right to live. Those individuals were targeted to be murdered by the state, usually through the compulsion or deception of their caretakers.
...

Life unworthy of life

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: Brotherman

I pointed out how progressives/leftists in academia have already been arguing to legalize infanticide since there is no difference between newborns and unborn humans, and leftists want to legalize "after birth abortion" or the murder of newborns even when they are healthy. You have nothing to say about that?

What about the fact that such liberals/left-wingers like Peter Singer have admitted that the argument for abortion can also be used to argue no just in favor of infanticide, but also genocide of certain humans...

Should we also have no say whatsoever about legalizing the murder of newborns like left-wing/liberal/progressives want? Or the legalization of murdering adults as well that left-wingers/progressives claim do not deserve to live?...

Do you even know what evil empire used such arguments that "certain humans don't deserve to live" and those "humans were labeled as "inhumane" which led to the murder of millions of innocent people and even children?...

The phrase "life unworthy of life" was a Nazi designation for the segments of the populace which according to the Nazi regime had no right to live. Those individuals were targeted to be murdered by the state, usually through the compulsion or deception of their caretakers.
...

Life unworthy of life

Hell man you know Im not your enemy here we friends here. I was just pointing out that people can say what they want, and I said myself I'm not sure about the difference between the murder/ abortion/ infantcide thingie because to me they all are the same.

Yeah I know about the nazis and I know about other groups there after and before with similar ideas, I know about self inflictors because of weird ass spiritual beliefs (heavens gates comes to mind) That wasn't my point to you my friend

my point to you my friend is that this issue is a private one truthfully and that bigger entities then a single man or woman wants to use this heart string to keep people divided.

I don't like the idea of preventing a young one of birth unless it is due to factual known deformities and life long pain and suffering, or rape, those are just my personal thoughts on it.

heres another

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

1st off, I walk in the Light of God as a Christian. I'm lifelong in medicine. I support life. Of course. I respect a woman governing her own life. Of course too.

You think we could treat people if I judged their moral, spiritual and cultural opinions?

We care zero in ER serv what you believe. I got ya. Pack ya and push ya...or bag em n tag em.

I care more you live, don't suffer, get the best possible care n instruction. But, never my call.

So straddling both sides? Yes. I have to be behind something...and always some of both.

God Bless

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Did you tell me to stop mentioning God?

Again...you're incorrect in your statement "so no one has a right..."

Of course you do. You see how your side...is showing?

Solomon "Bring me a sword so I can cut this baby in half. Give each mother 1/2". That too...was middle ground. Wise ma, Solomon.

Oh. And in the Bible too...

Peace

I talked to a Pro-Choice friend about this and it did make them think.

Woman who has abortion to father - It is my decision. Mine alone. No one can tell me and I do not need any help. It is in me not in you. I give birth. Stay out of it.

Woman who does not have abortion to father - Give me child support. You helped in creating our child. It is your responsibility.

Which one is it? When it comes to ending the pregnancy it is all about the woman but if SHE decides to go full term then the father should be involved. Seems a little selfish to me.

Now, I am not saying a father should ever not help, they should, but it really does show that this argument is not about life. It is about politics, selfish individuals and creating a divide with hate in our country.