Some of the Roswell Riddle examined

originally posted by: peaceinoutz
a reply to: idusmartias

I won't dispute you on that, but unknowns are often there in disputed events such as Roswell. For example, the nurse the Dennis story talks about certainly has a mystery behind it. Also, the reason why they may have used the Roswell mythos as a disinformation tool.

It all goes back to that period of the late 70s early 80s when the Bennewitz/Doty/Moore fiasco, up until the MJ 12 exposures all the way to the 90s when the GOA report came out which BTW is not all that conclusive about Roswell one might think.

There are no real mysteries except possibly why certain puzzling actions were taken such as why use a big bomber to transport a few pounds of the simple Mogul debris that was recovered

Well, there you go there are certain unknowns and I think others too.

Though I have confidence in my belief of some of the standard UFO subject matter, I nevertheless try to keep an open mind particularly when we’re dealing with the USG IC community shenanigans.

One thing about UFOlogy and Roswell in particular, bs talks and nobody walks. Some of the invisible personalities such as the "nurse" are creations 'cause the field is full of charlatans and they overwhelm the general populace. And since the majority of humans are mentally-conditioned believers almost all will buy what they're exposed to. That's why illogical religions flourish and god needs money to keep the churches and temples full of riches off the poor and gullible.

Roswell has facts and myths. Any serious thinker will be satisfied with the logical facts. The gullible believers keep the industry going. Do you think that if it wasn't for the bs the city of Roswell would have evolved into the UFO capital of the world much to the enrichment of the city fathers? How many different areas do the guides take the gullible believers to look at plain ol' dirt and be convinced that they're standing on UFO holy grail grounds? Step right off, this way to the "Egress".

a reply to: idusmartias

Well, my good fellow ATS mate, I get what you’re saying, but belief and the will to believe and the need to believe is all a part of human nature. Maybe a part of our nature that needs improvement but nevertheless it's an integral part of our personality.

Wiser people understand that belief should be examined, I like to look at it from a Buddhist perspective that belief is only a means to an end. Understanding that belief is NOT real knowledge.

People who only have superficial belief in Ufology, for inner need or programming or for whatever might be advised to examine their UFO beliefs more closely. Just as superficial disbelievers might want to challenge their disbelief by more closely looking at the record.

People who do anything only on the surface whether, in science, religion, ufology or any ology will always be more prone to error and to deception than those who go deeper.

a reply to: peaceinoutz

People who do anything only on the surface whether, in science, religion, ufology or any ology will always be more prone to error and to deception than those who go deeper.

Nicely said!

"# or get off the pot!"

So many people are looky lou's.

Why can't people understand we only have the confirmed account IN 1947 by Mac Brazel describing the debris. There is nothing a month later IN 1947 which Brazels article describes foreign, unbendable, unfoldable, and indestructible material. EVERYTHING he describes can be and is man-made. Where are the exotic material and properties IN 1947 before this story grabs the attention of UFO promoter Stanton Friedman and several UFO authors 30 YEARS later?

EXACT manmade material that's being used in the EXACT time period being in 1947 is being launched 90+/- miles away to the south in Alamogordo. I keep asking, including to Kevin Randal, that's just coincidental? I never get, 'yep that's only a coincidence' because that would have to be.

We can prove that Mogul was a secret balloon program being launched in June/July 1947 only 90 miles to the south of Roswell. It existed. Follow the paper trail of proof and again tell me that's just a coincidence. Now, prove to me that an alien spacecraft crashed. You've had 7 DECADES.

originally posted by: peaceinoutz
a reply to: idusmartias

Well, my good fellow ATS mate, I get what you’re saying, but belief and the will to believe and the need to believe is all a part of human nature. Maybe a part of our nature that needs improvement but nevertheless it's an integral part of our personality.

I beg to differ, mate. We are not born with a belief system. Beliefs are created when your mind is conditioned by authority figures such as your parents, teachers, the cop on the block, anyone that impresses you. But fortunately, not every mind was conditioned. Mine wasn't. I did not develop a belief system and after I grew up, an atheist, I understood why. I grew up in catholic families (maternal/paternal) but they didn't press religion us, they were deeply religious but they didn't beat us over the head with it. I went to Sunday school but my parents didn't know if I actually reached the building but because attendance resulted in gifts, I was rewarded and the priest's words never sunk in as they were impossible for me to believe. So, beliefs are not part of human nature. You are not born being able to ride a bike, but you learn.

Wiser people understand that belief should be examined, I like to look at it from a Buddhist perspective that belief is only a means to an end. Understanding that belief is NOT real knowledge.

I'm not an authority but because I became a great hypnotist in the '60s while in my middle 20s I learned about how the mind operates. And not every wise mind understood how belief systems are created. They were wise but still believed. Irrationality did not respect. Buddhists may knoww hot to meditate but they have no special knowledge and just waste their lives.

People who only have superficial belief in Ufology, for inner need or programming or for whatever might be advised to examine their UFO beliefs more closely. Just as superficial disbelievers might want to challenge their disbelief by more closely looking at the record.

UFOs don't rely on beliefs, UFOs are, with no connection to humans. I don't believe in UFOs, I accept their reality as I accept that sun keeps us warm.

People who do anything only on the surface whether, in science, religion, ufology or any ology will always be more prone to error and to deception than those who go deeper.

Won't agree or disagree as I find you sentence non-sensical, no offense meant, just my way of thinking.

Beyond the materials found, there are a number of Roswell 'tropes' that are not based on fact but continue to be regurgitated by UFOtainment personalities and social media sub-geniuses.

For example,

The CIA was formed in September 1947 as a result of the Roswell crash

A modicum of research will verify that President Truman proposed the legislation to Congress on February 26, 1947 (months before). This was after years of planning the re-organisation dating back to WWII.

a reply to: mirageman

Well thank goodness!

UFOlogy in the United States is heavily dependent on the CIA!

It's good to know that it was ready to go before it was needed

on day one!

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: chunder

the dude got over-exicted and made an ass of himself,
then his boss made him retract it.

No need to make it any more than that.

I agree and can accept that as a reason.

a reply to: idusmartias

I have many issues with what you posted, but I’ll leave it to another theme in another thread to answer all those I have serious issues with, as not to derail the subject of this thread.

I'll only say this:

A belief system as you say is certainly rooted in a societal source. But the reality that a belief system exists in any form created by the human species tells us that humans are groping for a higher truth, they’ve somehow lost or can evolve to. Sure, that’s a belief. And anyone is entitled to pursue that belief, within the boundary of humanness. Often such beliefs have created evils we all condemn from religion to secular-based systems.

But the spirit of human beings will not be denied and obviously needs that stepping stone to the ultimate reality which is definitely, beyond belief!

Alas, whether we like it or not, that’s the reality of our inner nature of a groping for the sublime.

a reply to: mirageman

The CIA was formed in September 1947 as a result of the Roswell crash

Who said that? Some ufo guy?

Then aha, the aliens are communists after all.

a reply to: peaceinoutz

Reason is a wonderful servant, but makes a very poor master.

a reply to: peaceinoutz

It all started back with the MJ12 mythology in the late 80s.

... the CIA was formed by Presidential Executive Order first as the Central Intelligence Group for the express purpose of dealing with the alien presence. Later the National Security Act (NSA) was established to oversee the intelligence community and especially the alien endeavor....

MAJESTIC 12 AND THE SECRET GOVERNMENT

The aliens spreading communist ideals might have begun with George Adamski. But then capitalism hasn't been that wonderful either unless you're one of the wealthy elite.

a reply to: mirageman

What is communist bout seeing some shiny blob of light in the sky
and then being all over the place about what you saw?

I’m being satirical of course here, about aliens and commies but as far as I know, the CIA was created for cold war reasons, not alien war reasons. Though the CIA is perfectly capable of arrogating any power unto itself it doesn’t inherently by law possess.


I don't think the CIA got their paws on Roswell much.

a reply to: mirageman

Yeah, Adamski was some kind of spaceman communist I recall, and the FBI I think got in his case.

Then the Venusians abandoned him since they were socialists

Not to tangent to far……there’s no reason for one to believe that other alien nations, societies don’t have the same we have on earth……capitalism, socialism, authoritarian, communism, etc..

To define what doesn’t probably get taught in schools anymore….

com·mu·nism
/ˈkämyəˌnizəm/
noun

a political theory derived from Karl Marx, advocating class war and leading to a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs.

Certainly plausible on another world…

Back to topic

👽🛸🍺🧐

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: mirageman

Well thank goodness!

UFOlogy in the United States is heavily dependent on the CIA!

It's good to know that it was ready to go before it was needed on day one!

Nonsense! UFOlogy is not dependent on anyone nor anything especially a US Gov't agency. Where do you get this stuff from? It's irrational thinking not based on facts nor history.

originally posted by: peaceinoutz
a reply to: idusmartias

I have many issues with what you posted, but I’ll leave it to another theme in another thread to answer all those I have serious issues with, as not to derail the subject of this thread.

I'll only say this:

A belief system as you say is certainly rooted in a societal source. But the reality that a belief system exists in any form created by the human species tells us that humans are groping for a higher truth, they’ve somehow lost or can evolve to. Sure, that’s a belief. And anyone is entitled to pursue that belief, within the boundary of humanness. Often such beliefs have created evils we all condemn from religion to secular-based systems.

But the spirit of human beings will not be denied and obviously needs that stepping stone to the ultimate reality which is definitely, beyond belief!

Alas, whether we like it or not, that’s the reality of our inner nature of a groping for the sublime.

I'll reply, if you wanted me to but only insofar to tell you we are miles apart in thinking and knowledge. I could never entertain thinking like you. I call it flawed thinking.

originally posted by: idusmartias

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: mirageman

Well thank goodness!

UFOlogy in the United States is heavily dependent on the CIA!

It's good to know that it was ready to go before it was needed on day one!

Nonsense! UFOlogy is not dependent on anyone nor anything especially a US Gov't agency. Where do you get this stuff from? It's irrational thinking not based on facts nor history.

I'm choosing not to respond to that. Please take that as kindness.

originally posted by: peaceinoutz
I’m being satirical of course here, about aliens and commies but as far as I know, the CIA was created for cold war reasons, not alien war reasons. Though the CIA is perfectly capable of arrogating any power unto itself it doesn’t inherently by law possess.


I don't think the CIA got their paws on Roswell much.

It was a poor joke, based on recent events, that caused much
chaos... kind of like how some religions get started.

Hell, excaclty like how religions get started. Roswell is it's
own religion.