Some of the Roswell Riddle examined

a reply to: Ophiuchus1
Yeah. I've often thought of a material or canvas type backing may have been used that would have explained the folding then unfolding of the foil. It's not taking on the normal characteristic of a foil. Alox experimented with plasticpolyethelene kites in early 1951. That's too late but I can see a metallic sided plastic reacting by a refusal to being bent like metal and springing back or not being able to be "bent" with a sledgehammer. Possibly an early experimental iteration of the plastic used on the radar targets since they needed to have lightweight strength? It would have seemed exotic and foreign to anyone back then.

Well, Mac Brazel in his newspaper interview said:  " The balloon which held it up, if that was how it worked, must have been about 12 feet long, he felt, measuring the distance by the size of the room in which he sat" So Brazel had a balloon in his mind for some reason. He also said in that interview that he found rubber strips. To me, it all points to a carrying balloon.

I’m listing the 14 page report titled “The Rowell Incident” …. written by James McAndrews 1st Lt. USAFR Declassification and Review Officer SAF/AAZD. This report is not to be confused with the book of the same title written by Charles Berlitz, William L. Moore.

This 14 page document is extracted from the official DOD 994 page document titled The Roswell Report - Fact Versus Fiction in the New Mexico Desert.

I post it here for reference and forum thread prosperity.

Note: For footnote research, see the entire 994 page document at The Roswell Report - Fact Versus Fiction in the New Mexico Desert
















Below is a graphic from The Roswell Report - Fact Versus Fiction in the New Mexico Desert...that shows the comparison between a Mogul Balloon and Train configuration, at scaled height, to familiar landmarks.



A balloon is a balloon is a balloon

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Charles Moores drawing of a service flight that was being launched in between with full Mogul arrays. Page 210:


He states that he believes that's what crashed. There's no equipment mentioned by Brazel. A fully equipped Mogul flight would have been much bigger than a service or research flight and carrying equipment. A service flight fits perfectly into the material description.

originally posted by: Ectoplasm8 There's no equipment mentioned by Brazel. A fully equipped Mogul flight would have been much bigger than a service or research flight and carrying equipment. A service flight fits perfectly into the material description.

Among other things….stated below……the Black Electronics Box…….would have been more than likely Bakelite plastic.



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a reply to: Ophiuchus1There were so many things said decades after the fact. When alien craft was beginning to get footing via Stanton Friedman and various author$. It makes it confusing. I still put faith and confidence in Brazels words in the newspaper article ONE MONTH after the incident, not words 30 years later. He mentioned no details of equipment found. If there was, I'm certain he would have said it then. But, he went out his way to say there was nothing and nothing extraordinary. Brazel's newspaper quote:
"There was no sign of any metal in the area which might have been used for an engine and no sign of any propellers of any kind."
He seemed puzzled at that fact.
Besides, Mogul flights would have carried much more equipment and left that much more equipment behind during a crash, including "Return To:" tags that were attached.
A simple service flight would have maybe had a radiosound transmitter, if used during that time, and measuring equipment but not the same microphone listen devices that was in development or electronics. Those were followed and recovered. Service flights and cargo were deemed expendable and left untracked and not recovered.

The sellers of this crashed alien craft don't want you to listen to Brazels story in the newspaper because the debris matches a balloon train with radar targets as i pointed out in my original Roswell thread. So they create this military presence that followed Brazel around town to encourage his story to follow along with their "cover story". So THAT'S why he said what he did. When looked into deeply, that doesn't make sense for several reasons. One of which is Brazel saying:  
"I am sure that what I found was not any weather observation balloon"
That one statement would go against this whole military coercion and destroy the cover story.

The town of Roswell has put itself on the map and has made much money off this story.

a reply to: Ectoplasm8

It's sort of like a present-day denial of reality by a certain American political faction over an election (who never depend on clear facts) I won’t name for obvious reasons.

You’ll have Roswell believers say. “Oh Well Brazel was gotten to by the Army to make those statements that don’t support an alien craft”

Something like that I’ve read from even supposed sober and objective ufologists among the gang of 6 during the late 70s, 80s, and early 90s revisionist history of Roswell.


Clear facts don't persuade those who refuse to look at other possibilities other than their Will To belive.

a reply to: peaceinoutz
I won't even go into politics.
Actions speak louder than words and look where those actions have gotten us so far. Wonderful.

I'm about facts and using independent thought. Not being swayed because of what you're told. Just research things yourself. That applies currently too.

Many reports claim Brazel had heard about "rewards" on offer for tracking down a flying disk.



Source

Had he not known about these financial incentive then the Holy Grail of American ufology may well have been a totally different story.

a reply to: mirageman

Absolutely, at that time he was swayed by the lure of a saucer reward.

I’m starting to think there was a perfect storm of coincidences.

I’ve still need to research though…..

There may have been two separate unrelated crashes of a balloon train at Corona and then a disc near the actual city of Roswell within days to weeks of each other and were mixed up together and then solely used “Roswell” as the overall catch name.

Another ATS member mentioned that the “Roswell” incident (which included the balloon project controversy) was perhaps a red herring to cover up for an actual UFO crash…..

I presume the UFO crash being elsewhere near actually Roswell…..This may be the case in fact.

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originally posted by: mirageman
Many reports claim Brazel had heard about "rewards" on offer for tracking down a flying disk.

Source

Had he not known about these financial incentive then the Holy Grail of American ufology may well have been a totally different story.

I can't say as I blame him. Finding a "flying saucer" would have ultimately meant a lot of money besides just the reward. Brazel put the cart before the horse and thought the material was odd enough to try and collect. I'm sure with the backing of his wife and family. His friends and family sound like they convinced him to go back. When he first walked up on it he simply moved the debris under a bush. Doesn't  sound like exotic materials to me. It didn't even make an impression on him.

This story begins with Brazel and carries to the army. Not the other way around. Just hearing what Brazel THOUGHT he had found must have stirred up quite the gossip in the town. Even the headline that a flying saucer was captured. Nothing was captured by the army but that goes in line with the excitement it must have stirred.

originally posted by: Ectoplasm8
a reply to: peaceinoutz
I won't even go into politics.
Actions speak louder than words and look where those actions have gotten us so far. Wonderful.

I'm about facts and using independent thought. Not being swayed because of what you're told. Just research things yourself. That applies currently too.

I don’t want to get into politics either that’s why I mentioned no names but we know what I’m referring to. Those are real-life examples of a kind of thinking that speaks for itself. In ufology, there can be little damage considering the subject but we all know the damage this kind of mentality can do to more vital areas of life and limb.

a reply to: Ophiuchus1

Another ATS member mentioned that the “Roswell” incident (which included the balloon project controversy) was perhaps a red herring to cover up for an actual UFO crash…..

And the Roswell main witness Frank Kaufman says the supposed crash on the Plaines of San Agustin was a disinformation psyop to cover up the real one at Roswell!


Gets kind of ridiculous doesn't it.

a reply to: [post=26552894]Ophiuchus1[

/“There may have been two separate unrelated crashes of a balloon train at Corona and then a disc near the actual city of Roswell within days to weeks of each other and were mixed up together and then solely used “Roswell” as the overall catch name. “

That’s a new thought , my friend . The only failure of MOGUL was at Roswell . .. if you bought that story, of course.


Roswell will be a convenient myth to hide recoveries at other sites. Stories like ARIAL to stoke it. JMO, of course.

a reply to: play4keeps

I think Ariel was a legit story with real witnesses although children.

Maybe it is a message from the aliens that it's the children who have the most sense compared to the grown-ups and all their lies, distortions, and crazy stories. It's the grown-ups who can't tell the truth or accept it when it smacks them in the face on all issues actually not just ufology.

Has anyone dissected this story…..

……”The Roswell Daily Record article for July 8, 1947, included this report:

Mr. and Mrs. Dan Wilmot apparently were the only persons in Roswell who seen what they thought was a flying disk. They were sitting on their porch at 105 South Penn. last Wednesday night at about ten o'clock when a large glowing object zoomed out of the sky from the southeast, going in a northwesterly direction at a high rate of speed. Wilmot called Mrs. Wilmot's attention to it and both ran down into the yard to watch. It was in sight less then a minute, perhaps 40 or 50 seconds, Wilmot estimated. Wilmot said that it appeared to him to be about 1,500 feet high and going fast. He estimated between 400 and 500 miles per hour. In appearance it looked oval in shape like two inverted saucers, faced mouth to mouth, or like two old type washbowls placed, together in the same fashion. The entire body glowed as though light were showing through from inside, though not like it would inside, though not like it would be if a light were merely underneath. From where he stood Wilmot said that the object looked to be about 5 feet in size, and making allowance for the distance it was from town he figured that it must have been 15 to 20 feet in diameter, though this was just a guess. Wilmot said that he heard no sound but that Mrs. Wilmot said she heard a swishing sound for a very short time. The object came into view from the southeast and disappeared over the treetops in the general vicinity of six mile hill. Wilmot, who is one of the most respected and reliable citizens in town, kept the story to himself hoping that someone else would come out and tell about having seen one, but finally today decided that he would go ahead and tell about it.

The announcement that the RAAF was in possession of one came only a few minutes after he decided to release the details of what he had seen.”……..


This object was seen by the Wilmots passing through the sky of the Roswell city area……..Google Earth 105 South Pennsylvania Avenue, Roswell, New Mexico…their residence at the time of the their sighting……it’s almost in the heart of the city.

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