The ancient navigators

originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: Harte

As long as you knew your latitude, and kept a log of the days. You could sail the latitudes and do other things to find out if you were near land.

True.
And then die when you never reached it.

Harte

a reply to: LABTECH767

The problem with entrenched paradigms is the mind is closed to new information which does not fit it. It is a security blanket, Then when an anomaly is observed that does not fit it, by not accepting its validity you have ignored the pathway to truth. The only sure thing is change and adaption to it. By not enabling this inevitable process you run the risk of becoming irelevant. To avoid this it always leads to lies and deception.
An acquaintance of mine said that their friends were geologists who have just retired, during their career they had access to some of these forbidden sites in Egypt. They are sure that something catastrophic happened, that ended a very advanced civilization. We should take note if it happened to them it could happen to us. This is the main message these intellectual ramblings have to conclude at the end of the day.

a reply to: fromunclexcommunicate

oo ooo I remember learning to tie equidistant knots for that! You coil the entire rope/line then swap ends through it and pull at both ends... the last knot(all overhand) appears in the middle of it... the distance between them(equidistant knotted ropes/lines) is varied by the size of the coil you make... at least that's as far as i can remember.

It's nice to finally know what it was for




edit to add: The crow won't leave the ship until it is near populated land it's best to think of them as a seagull but more evolved... once it left the nest all sails and heading would be aimed where it went as someone ran up to the nest with a scope to see where the bird went or "as the crow flies people will follow" itsa very loyal bird and being attached to shiny objects in trade for food is said to have a pirates "heart" while the sparrow is said to carry the sailors soul or "spirit".

a reply to: Crowfoot

Interesting... as even in the bible Noha used a raven, it might have been a mistranslation. So birds were definitely used for navigation.

a reply to: anonentity

Seagulls they'll cross a sea but not an ocean... so looking at what gets called sea? Then knowing the distance they'll cross halving that distance means it'll be likely you see some but not much further out than that when out on the ocean.

But yeah seagulls have a sort of an always mocking and knowing "smile" on their face an follow net boats like it's the coupon for crab leg night at an Asian buffet.

It's an interesting thing as mostly land dwellers we used to follow herds the same way they do boats. Meaning it was a relatively easy existence for thousands of years.

Seeing a bird after being out there for a long time is as heart raising as dead sails finally catching wind... so those that have a steady port not seeing them anything other than bait and fish stealing scavengers have been land legged too long in the eyes of those that think them a glorious sight after being dead or lost on the water as a sign of hope in a distance the sort of albatross though as mentioned it's a deceptive smile though as a seagull may be going in or out up and down and since it can sit on the water and go to sleep? it's an untrustworthy evil thing in the eyes of most seasoned and experienced out on the water.

A raven would mean Noah was out of the house of Horus the tale crossing oceans and cultures it would be changed into Odin and as a god or goddess itself(the bird) in greek and rome? Coronis.

Some people forget to follow the familiars and fetches of the people when tracing things out... The biblical person referred to as Jesus considered those fetches and familiars"witches". Of course ancient orthodox religion that came before Judaism and it's branches; when shown imagery don't see "Jesus and Mary" as the Catholics pass those two off as; They see Esau and Rebecca. Jews already knowing that only have said not our saviour when it comes to Catholics and Christians. How Esau and Rebecca fit into Judaism? Not really any of my business; But not the one they were/are looking for to return.

But following those fetches and familiars is something that can help link the islands in the stream of different lands and tales back to one... if Noah was leaving that area by boat? Why would it be in the same place that they wanted to leave and Noah not become Odin where it landed? It's not just time that covers things up but also culture but sometimes just as a protective measure... following the bird, jackal or whatever else instead of the person may sometimes lead to the same person even though the name has changed is all I am saying. Losing an eye could simply be a reference for finding someone else more lovely to look at than the bride he already found just as lovely if not more so at one time... blaming the mead however was likely not used as the excuse for it allowing him to remain honorable at least in that respect.

Maybe the fetch familiar research has already been done if so I haven't really looked into it much and there's likely a lot of "fringe" involved if that is the case.

a reply to: Crowfoot

Ancient navigators operated in pre-historic times so we really only have our own ideas about how the net was conceived.
Seagulls follow fishing boats and whalers in modern times.
The "yard arm" was originally a measure of the circumference of a mans waist his foot length being a "third".
The sun above the yard arm and the water clock below is probably why the mathematicians liked 5's for latitude and 8's for longitude?
The name George has roots as "earthworker" and it appears this one found land at a different longitude.

originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: LABTECH767

The problem with entrenched paradigms is the mind is closed to new information which does not fit it. It is a security blanket, Then when an anomaly is observed that does not fit it, by not accepting its validity you have ignored the pathway to truth. The only sure thing is change and adaption to it. By not enabling this inevitable process you run the risk of becoming irelevant. To avoid this it always leads to lies and deception.
An acquaintance of mine said that their friends were geologists who have just retired, during their career they had access to some of these forbidden sites in Egypt. They are sure that something catastrophic happened, that ended a very advanced civilization. We should take note if it happened to them it could happen to us. This is the main message these intellectual ramblings have to conclude at the end of the day.

Why don't you tell us which sites in Egypt are "forbidden?"

Harte

a reply to: Harte

Harte don't play silly buggers there are many sites within Egypt that are off limits and other sites that the Egyptian authority's both keep off limits and play dumb about such as the huge network of tunnels beneath the Giza Plateau and the rumoured temple INSIDE the sphynx that was recorded century's ago.

Then there are of course other places such as the possible temple or chambers buried beneath the temple of Hathor.

And countless sites that are off limits not for conspiracy reasons as perhaps some of these are but to protect them, despite the looting that took place during the So called Arab spring within the country there are still a great many sites both known about and off limits or yet to be discovered, even if Egypt was only seven thousand years old and not the much greater age many of us believe then by comparison look at what the US did in just a few hundred years to almost an entire continent with there city's and town's, roads and Dam's and even though far more primitive - or so we are told? - and with only simple tools the people living in what we today call Egypt have had at least - at least? - seven thousand years to do stuff there.

So of course there are sites that off limits, most to protect them since they may be fragile and not suitable for tourism but need more study and other's that may be shall we say unpalatable to those of your own belief system.

I mean you flat out DENY on another topic the evidence of those city's off the coast of India.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: Harte

Harte don't play silly buggers there are many sites within Egypt that are off limits and other sites that the Egyptian authority's both keep off limits and play dumb about such as the huge network of tunnels beneath the Giza Plateau and the rumoured temple INSIDE the sphynx that was recorded century's ago.

So, you don't actually KNOW any "forbidden" sites in Egypt.
You just like to make the claim.

originally posted by: LABTECH767Then there are of course other places such as the possible temple or chambers buried beneath the temple of Hathor.

In your world, does "possible" mean "forbidden?"

originally posted by: LABTECH767And countless sites that are off limits not for conspiracy reasons as perhaps some of these are but to protect them, despite the looting that took place during the So called Arab spring within the country there are still a great many sites both known about and off limits or yet to be discovered, even if Egypt was only seven thousand years old and not the much greater age many of us believe then by comparison look at what the US did in just a few hundred years to almost an entire continent with there city's and town's, roads and Dam's and even though far more primitive - or so we are told? - and with only simple tools the people living in what we today call Egypt have had at least - at least? - seven thousand years to do stuff there.

So "countless" that you can't even name them.
I guess the names are "forbidden" too?

originally posted by: LABTECH767
I mean you flat out DENY on another topic the evidence of those city's off the coast of India.

Not watching your vids.
I have to assume you're talking about that Gulf of Khambat fiasco.
There's certainly no "city" there.

Now you're gonna tell me it was Dwarka, right?

Harte

a reply to: Harte

Harte you are old enough to know better than to talk out of the hat you are sitting on so grow up a little will you, your problem is that you can never accept when you are wrong.

There are plenty of archeologically sites that ARE off limits there, unless you bribe the guards as Egypt is renowned for such corruption BUT other than a possible pyramid foundation that may or may not have had a pyramid upon it in antiquity and had a downward passage partially build similar to that of the Extant Giza pyramids, a passage that is open to the sky with some odd features that were ignored for a very long time and that was used by an Egyptian military base that was based around it as there midden tip through much of the twentieth century I know of NO sites that are locked down by the military there.

There ARE sites however that you could very well be arrested for entering without a guide and sites that you will only ever get to see if you grease the right palm's and you full well know this so why the Charade and why play dumb.

One other thing, I remain unconvinced, are you the SELF SAME Harte that used to be more active and whom I had some interesting debates with going back since if so why the personality change?, it's like Jekyll and Hyde honestly or night and day the difference in your style, or did he pass the avatar off to one of his students?.

The original HARTE would not have so disgraced himself or have made himself so look like an ostrich with it's head in the sand as to refuse to even look at those video's though he may have mentioned Youtube in a disparaging manner.

Now let me also point this out, I do have the greatest respect for Harte as I remember him, he would educate as he dismissed faulty theory's rather than stoop to ignorance and dismissal, very different personality in my opinion but we all change I guess.

a reply to: fromunclexcommunicate

The net was probably some silk from a garment that accidentally caught some fishes like if they stretched out a big expanse of it to wash. Noticing that the weaving was reworked and different fibers came into use over time... if they made any fish nets out of silk it's likely they got eaten or disintegrated... silk appears somewhat translucent in water and if bunched up kinda looks like currents and tides moving(ripples).

But that's just my guess of a possible origin of nets.

a reply to: Crowfoot

They liked the number 10,000 expressed in different bases.
But that was not explained very clearly until the time of the new Julian calendar.
I don't know if the details are forbidden, but I've never seen anyone explain (and live).

a reply to: fromunclexcommunicate

When all things are returnable to one; To what is the one returnable?

It speaks of many things it is considered a Japanese Koan... something repeated over and over to reclaim the lost knowledge that it bares... sort of like a compressed file key that opens all of that knowledge. The base of ten is just one of those "files" decompressed... making the remembrance equal to one "Dan" or Daian once that knowledge arise? Then it's time to keep repeating it... so that it opens more knowledge who knows how many dans a koan has is likely a better koan.

Living is a relative term; If it wasn't such a thing someone wouldn't try to recollect all of them to you when you're a child, later in life it's like... I was always supposed to consider those people "family" when I knew some for less than a day and yet friends that could be known for decades are somehow not family and shunned or less accepted than someone known for less than a day. It can take decades to know one person without their hidden "self" some try to create a shortcut with gossip and rumor but only the gullible believe such until they see or know that person directly. The same could be said about topics in life the ears are as deaf and mind dumb on some topics even if whatever it is; is heard every day until that person is open and ready to receive whatever knowledge that is... most of the times it's impractical things; That do not even bare repeating.

However I think the koan that originated out of korea as goan is a sort of magical phrase to regain lost knowledge or gain practical knowledge a very interesting device and since all of those things were practical to existence in this world or the next(alive or dead)? They bear repeating to the greatest extent or dan count as possible in realization. It could be said they don't have an answer only because they already are an answer.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: Harte

Harte you are old enough to know better than to talk out of the hat you are sitting on so grow up a little will you, your problem is that you can never accept when you are wrong.

There are plenty of archeologically sites that ARE off limits there, unless you bribe the guards as Egypt is renowned for such corruption BUT other than a possible pyramid foundation that may or may not have had a pyramid upon it in antiquity and had a downward passage partially build similar to that of the Extant Giza pyramids, a passage that is open to the sky with some odd features that were ignored for a very long time and that was used by an Egyptian military base that was based around it as there midden tip through much of the twentieth century I know of NO sites that are locked down by the military there.

Archaeology sites are off limits to curious passers-by all over the planet.
Don't tell me you can't imagine why.
No site in Egypt is off limits to qualified professionals that want to investigate it. You can find such sites in China though.

originally posted by: LABTECH767 There ARE sites however that you could very well be arrested for entering without a guide and sites that you will only ever get to see if you grease the right palm's and you full well know this so why the Charade and why play dumb.

Now you want to pretend that there is not a black market for Egyptian antiquities.
Really dumb.

originally posted by: LABTECH767One other thing, I remain unconvinced, are you the SELF SAME Harte that used to be more active and whom I had some interesting debates with going back since if so why the personality change?, it's like Jekyll and Hyde honestly or night and day the difference in your style, or did he pass the avatar off to one of his students?.

Now you will fault me for having a life and not caring to provide corrections to the same old ignorant claims repeated ad infinitum by people such as yourself (and others,)

originally posted by: LABTECH767 The original HARTE would not have so disgraced himself or have made himself so look like an ostrich with it's head in the sand as to refuse to even look at those video's though he may have mentioned Youtube in a disparaging manner.

The original ATS was not filled with soft-brained idiots that stamp their feet and insist that the world is something it isn't.

originally posted by: LABTECH767Now let me also point this out, I do have the greatest respect for Harte as I remember him, he would educate as he dismissed faulty theory's rather than stoop to ignorance and dismissal, very different personality in my opinion but we all change I guess.

Harte is done providing what he used to provide.
You didn't care to listen to him. You dismissed the evidence he worked hard to provide. You repeated the same claims he debunked - sometimes only days later.
He got tired of doing all the work.

Harte

a reply to: Harte

When you are STOOPING to twisting my words it is really pathetic, if the REAL HARTE is still around somewhere he would be very disappointed.

First of all I NEVER said anything about the illicit and disgusting trade in Antiquity's but hey wasn't one of your poster boy's Zawi Hawass questioned about something going back though he was let off or found innocent, he was the top ranking person in Egypt after the minister wasn't he.

We also only have to look at the disgusting damage done during the riot's there when they overthrew Hosni Mubarak, how sites were looted and even the museum trashed, it was almost as bad as what Isis were doing and in fact some Radical's there started to deface some of the statues as well if I recall though you know there is a long history of that in Egypt going back to a war with the early Coptic church whom then set out to destroy the pagan cults once they were strong enough so sadly that is not something isolated to the Islamic extremism that we have seen in our own lifetimes and though after the Islamic conquest of Egypt they probably did topple quite a few statues and deface others most sites such as the temple of Hathor may have been defaced by those early Christian zealots.

Meanwhile over in Turkey at the site that many believe to be Noah's ark there was a nearby ruined house that Ron Wyatte a man you probably do not believe in but whom was probably at least as good and perhaps far better at his archaeology than you are but whom was driven by his FAITH and who never claimed to be an Expert BELIEVED due to some rock carvings and symbols to be the house of Noah and nearby what he believed to be Noah's wife's tomb was also Looted at some point and those that did this looting even filmed it, the coffin or sarcophagi they stole was for someone far taller than a modern human and what became of it and it's contents is lost to us but likely some collector on the black market somewhere has whatever item's that may have been with the dead woman inside it.

Likewise were Ron Wyatte driven by his faith felt he had to dig, it came upon him out of the blue to do this and he felt as if he had been told to dig there in Jerusalem and were he claimed he had found the Ark of the Convenient of the ten commandments (right beneath what he believed to be the actual crucifixion site of Christ and I believe he was correct) the Israeli Authority's later tried to push it all under the carpet (they Bulldozed that Crucifixion site the real Golgotha) after losing some men whom they had sent in to try to retrieve the Ark only for them to all drop dead of BRAIN HEAMHORAGES, they then sealed the entrance to the passage Ron had cleared with a steal door, rubble and concrete, the Ivory Pomegranate that is in the Israeli museum was actually found in the same chamber as the ark by Ron and they had to get him to come and collect the body's since they could not get near to them.

Now bear with me this plays into the whole Illegal theft of antiquity's.

Now in other parts of the Grotty of Jeremiah Freemasons meet regularly, they are not your usual group of masons, not the innocent boy's that go for a pint and make business deals, no these are the CULTISTS and they desperately want the ark so are probably trying to get to it, likely there fate will be even worse than that of the descendants of Levi that were sent in and dropped dead since they are outright nothing less than "those that call themselves Jews but are the Synagogue of Satan-Lucifer".

Now I am very sorry if your world view and mine can never come together since I believe you are likely a man of no faith or you keep your own faith to yourself but I assure you I have no sympathy for these tomb raiding thieves or for those that desecrate the graves of our ancestor's under the pretence of archaeology when in fact more than half are simply bloody treasure hunting grave robbers.

And as for your brain, you may be right but I lurked through most of that period, my field of study back in the day was electronic engineering and I had also done some basic A level science as well, as for your soft brained well given that is really rather quite rich coming from yourself I will leave it there and have a nice cuppa.

You know though I do remember a story that old Henry the Eighth (you know of that Tudor Dynasty that nicked the throne from the Plantagenets bunch of usurpers but then arguably so too were the Plantagenets of course that is not your history but ours so maybe you don't) fell of his horse one day and banged his head, he was a kindly youth and greatly talented and was accredited by some historians as having written Greensleeves (which undoubtedly did NOT) but I digress, anyhow after this he began to exhibit a different personality which grew only ever more angry and bad tempered as he aged, he made some bad decisions in France as well which lost him control of the old Norman Dukedom and of course famously became a serial killer (well what else would you call him) having his poor unfortunate wives beheaded on regular occasions (who would want to be married to a fat old man with an oozing ulcerated leg and bad gout that smelled like rotten flesh).

So you have not perchance at some point fallen off a horse have you Harte?.

(See Harte we can play this snide comment game back and forth the truth is I respected the Harte I used to have the odd argument with but if that is still you then you HAVE changed, we all do but not always for the better and we have all LOST people we love which is no excuse to go and turn into a hamsters back side of a person).

a reply to: LABTECH767

No I am sorry for my Jibe Harte, even if you were wrong in yours I was wrong to return the compliment, we are supposed to be civilized men after all.

Peace, you go on believing or knowing what you do, I will go on keeping an OPEN mind not a closed one and suspecting that there is a whole lot more to our history than you would like to believe.

(And I hate cults and other group's that corrupt the truth to suit there own agenda's, that included FALSE conspiracy theorists but there is enough genuine information to suggest there is a whole lot more at play than just a few charlatan's and they I am afraid are on BOTH sides of that fence).

See, the thing is, it takes all of 10 seconds to post a fringe claim. All you really have to do is visit Hancock's, Foerster's, Sitchin's or Ancient Aliens' website and copy and paste. Or go to any of the MILLIONS of websites that parrot them (and EVD as well.)

It takes hours to provide reasons the claims are false, if I'm gonna include links to actual information.

I'm done doing that.

I'd say use the search function, but it sucks here at ATS. Better is a site-specific Google search of ATS.
Use my name and the claim (both in separate quotation marks) if you want to see what I've said about it.

Harte

originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: fromunclexcommunicate

Getting the timing right might have been a problem, doing it right with a sextant needs a good stopwatch. You have to be quick noting the time and the angle.

This what is fascinating about the idea of the torquetum. The moon moves about 13.18 degrees every day, relative to the Earth. Or 12.19 degrees relative to the stars behind it, taking into account the whole motion with the Earth going around the Sun.

So if some really ingenius navigator were to figure that out, they could use the Moon's position relative to background stars as a kind of clock. Accuracy to within 1/2 a degree is equivalent to having a pocket watch that is accurate to within one hour.

That is pretty cool.

I think Harte is amongst the top 1% of contributors to ATS.

I can understand his frustrations with having to present the same information over and over again.....but I like it when he does.

I like Labtech as well because he questions things and is keen to discuss and debate. Whether I agree with him or not I admire the attention to detail he puts in his posts.

And I'm not getting off this fence, I'm quite content to sit here with my ice cream trying to learn things.
🍦🍨🍦

originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: LABTECH767

An acquaintance of mine said that their friends were geologists who have just retired, during their career they had access to some of these forbidden sites in Egypt. They are sure that something catastrophic happened, that ended a very advanced civilization.

Your acquaintance is lying to you. LOL Or to be more germane; I was told that those folks by my acquaintance (who by the way is better looking than yours) that those geologists were taken to joke sites to deflect them away from the REAL secret stuff which has to do with Giant flying saucers carrying yogurt recipes. Now is my 'friends' info superior to yours?

Isn't it always amazing that the crucial information that will change the world is always given by nameless people? Chuckle.

"Forbidden sites". The only ones where this applies are those that are on Egyptian military posts (most of which were originally built by the Ottomans or British - especially firing ranges (when you have tens of thousands of years of history in an area - its hard not to build stuff over existing sites). Especially when those sites have not been excavated.

WHY would these forbidden sites then be allowed to be visited by some yahoos? Kinda stupid of the evil conspiracy isn't it?