Lavrov "We are at war with NATO"

originally posted by: Ahabstar

We were expecting to listen in on a bonanza of new awesome Russian equipment in action. What we got was outdated equipment and unencoded transmissions in plain FM transmissions. A tin can and string setup would have been harder to hack communication setup.

So with that in mind, have we picked up any communication about how their plan was to win in 2 days?

a reply to: face23785

TBH man, I missed the two day part at the end of your post. I doubt Russia thought they could get to and take Kiev in two days although they probably hoped that would be the case. To answer your question, no I don't remember anything really about timelines mentioned in any of the official Russian speeches and media about the war. In all likelhood, the two week remark from Putin was what planners were basing their campaign around, at least the initial portion of the invasion appeared to follow that sort of planning.

originally posted by: GAOTU789
a reply to: face23785

TBH man, I missed the two day part at the end of your post. I doubt Russia thought they could get to and take Kiev in two days although they probably hoped that would be the case. To answer your question, no I don't remember anything really about timelines mentioned in any of the official Russian speeches and media about the war. In all likelhood, the two week remark from Putin was what planners were basing their campaign around, at least the initial portion of the invasion appeared to follow that sort of planning.

Okay, I get what you're saying. Here's my problem with that though, and I talked about this in my thread.

The Russians haven't been able to pacify the areas they went into in 2014. In 8 years. The places that supposedly are fairly pro-Russia.

So if they still haven't been able to control those areas in 8 years, what sense would it make to think they could take the entire rest of the country, which is much less pro-Russia, in a few days or even a few weeks?

Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. That's just one of the things that doesn't make sense. If you've got the time and you care to read my OP in the thread I linked in the last post, I point out a few other things about the official narrative that don't make sense.

None of that means I support, admire, or trust Putin. I just don't support seemingly phantom narratives coming from our media. Especially given their long history of getting war reporting wrong.

a reply to: face23785

The Russians haven't been able to pacify the areas they went into in 2014. In 8 years. The places that supposedly are fairly pro-Russia.

But they have. The fighting that has been happening in Donbas for the past 6 years has been along the front lines. We haven't heard much of guerilla warfare happening in Donbas from inside Russian held territory. There's been a few occurrences but it wasn't a constant threat to the war effort.

There also hasn't been large number of Russian reg force troops inside Donbas at anyone time. There has been little in the way of attacks on supply lines back into Russia during that same time. Most of the fighting done there in the last 6 years has been done by the Separatists and militias, not by Russian regulars.

As well, most people still inside Donbas when this invasion happened support the Russian presence. Most of the civilians that didn't had either become refugees, been killed or switched sides for either practicality, safety or through their experience during this war over the last 8 years.

Good thread btw, I missed it when you had posted it. I have some of the same questions as you tbh. When I get some time, I'll try and post something in it.

a reply to: GAOTU789

That's a fair point, that for the most part it hasn't been the Russian army fighting in those regions the last 8 years. We need more nuance like that in this discussion, rather than the extreme accusations that tend to fly from both sides of this debate. I appreciate the reasoned feedback.

a reply to: FlyingFox

Oh I love Obama.

honestly

a reply to: FlyingFox

The sad part is that's one of the better pictures of Obama exercising.

a reply to: face23785

I do not have access to those conversations. I have my doubts Russia would have thought two days. Unless they were thinking they would get to Kiev in two days travel. Two weeks however was always discussed because of the Spring thaws.

When Ukraine blew the bridges to stop the 40 mile column, they also blew some dams and levies to flood the ground around the roads to keep that column from going overland off-roading to a temp bridge. Similar situations (and far more…interesting circumstances) would happen in the US if there ever came an US versus Them type of Civil War with the government.

What a load of crap.
One look at how NATO has expanded and anyone can see NATO has encroached on Russia's borders.
Russia wasn't invading anyone when those countries joined NATO.
Russia was meant to be seen as a friendly country to the West, and was trying to find mutual grounds for cooperation with the West.
The West took the opportunity to expand its military alliance to Russia's borders.

Why has Albania joined NATO, or Croatia or FYROM? Whose threatening them? Why did Bulgaria join?
These Balkan nations joined NWTO, because the Western power structure wanted them in the Wests sphere, to cut our Russian influence and diminish their sphere in the Balkans.
But hey, you feel free to believe the opposite.

The Baltic countries? Poland? Who threatened them and forced them to join NATO? IT wasn't Russia.

Keep believing the nonsense that NATO is purely defensive and countries join on their own accord. Big LOL.


Hmm...yes, defensive...by being involved in colour revolutions, provocations that lead to war, and so on. Very defensive.

Defensive move...expand military presence to Russia's borders while Russia is recovering from the collapse of the USSR and trying to make nice with the West. Very defensive.......Not.

Go into Georgia, train and arm them and push them to attack Russia and start a war. Very defensive.

Overthrow Ukraine's government, install far right wingers and neonazis, supply weapons and training that result in the ethnic cleansing of ethnic Russians in the east, provoking a war with Russia, and then proposed to pump Ukraine full of weapons and advisors and NATO soldiers there unofficially..

Very defensive.


Instead of stopping the provocations against Russia and sitting down at a negotiating table, prepare to expand the Western military alliance NATO further into more of Russia's neighbours and along more of Russia's borders.
Very defensive.

GTFO you paid troll/bot.
And I'd be saying the same thing to a Russian troll/bot spewing their propaganda.

originally posted by: inert
a reply to: anonentity

The thing is that NATO is a defensive pact, not offensive. If any country feels that they would like to join, they may petition the group to join. But it's not like NATO is marketing protection schemes like the mafia. They accept like minded countries. This is where Russia's calculations is off. NATO is not actively encroaching on their doorstep. Their neighbors are not feeling safe and are asking for protection.

If Lavrov is expressing end of the world scenarios, it's because Ukraine is not going down like they sold it internally.

a reply to: mortex


So a country choosing to join a defensive alliance against a russian invasion somehow threatens russia, who swears they have no intention of invading anyone?

It's none of russia's business what a non threatening neighbor chooses to do.

Besides the fact that Ukraine isn't even a member of NATO, putting the icing on your absurdity cake.

a reply to: mortex

The thing is that NATO is a defensive pact, not offensive

NATO's Militarily intervention in Libya proved that NATO is offensive not defensive pact.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

It's none of russia's business what a non threatening neighbor chooses to do.

Why does the US/NATO keep installing pro DC vessel leaders in neighboring countries to Russia than?

putting the icing on your absurdity cake.

NATO has a way of screwing things up when it comes to cakes.

who swears they have no intention of invading anyone

Is that why NATO is expanding further into East and closer and closer to Russia's own borders like Belarus and Ukraine?

originally posted by: vNex92
a reply to: mortex

The thing is that NATO is a defensive pact, not offensive

NATO's Militarily intervention in Libya proved that NATO is offensive not defensive pact.

NATO's actions in Libya were at the behest of the U.N. (the world).

But perhaps if you keep saying it, NATO might actually become more than a defensive alliance.

originally posted by: vNex92
a reply to: PatriotGames4u

It's none of russia's business what a non threatening neighbor chooses to do.

Why does the US/NATO keep installing pro DC vessel leaders in neighboring countries to Russia than?

putting the icing on your absurdity cake.

NATO has a way of screwing things up when it comes to cakes.

who swears they have no intention of invading anyone

Is that why NATO is expanding further into East and closer and closer to Russia's own borders like Belarus and Ukraine?

'Installing'?



Is NATO a country?

Does 'NATO' have even a single acre of territory?

Has any NATO member country used it's military to expand it's territory?

Has any NATO member country used any non military means to expand it's territory?



Your claims are absurd.

Why do you create 2 threads every day to spread the latest russian propaganda?

3rd time asked.

a reply to: anonentity

5 Years of solid Russia bashing and accusations by Democrats, now those very Democrats are in power.

And the world is surprised Russia is now acting out?

I miss Trump. At least he had Putin in check.

Look who's Putin's Stooge now. Biden.

Here we have Lavrov saying:

Russia does not consider itself to be at war with NATO over Ukraine since such a development would increase the risks of a nuclear war, RIA news agency cited Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov as saying on Friday.

source

a reply to: Peeple

What is going on with the media these days, Lavrov said then unsaid it. Fauci claims one day the Pandemic is over and the next day says it is far from over. Everything from everywhere else is the same. You can basically pick any idea that pops into your head and proceed to grab news bites to prove it one day and do the same the next day to disprove it.I wonder sometimes if we have a third-party problem, like the interpreter being told to bend things. Like Russian TV discussing bombing cities in the UK, in the fog of all this eventually one will have to declare all news and statements BS and go and do something else.

Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov’s remarks and answers to questions during a meeting with the New Horizons educational marathon participants, Moscow, May 17, 2022

17 May 2022 20:20

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Question:

Not so long ago, the Ambassador of Ukraine to Germany called the German Federal Chancellor a “sulky liver sausage.” He wasn’t even expelled for this. Moreover, Germany continues rendering Ukraine comprehensive assistance by sending it weapons and offering financial aid. I have a question in this context. Can Kiev get away with anything? If so, why?


Sergey Lavrov:

Yes, it gets away scot-free with anything. You have correctly described the West’s attitude to its clients in Ukraine. Nobody needs Ukraine. It is expendable in the total hybrid war against the Russian Federation. Nobody doubts this anymore. This has been announced in public. The EU’s chief diplomat Josep Borrell says this war must be won on the battlefield. The British, Americans, presidents, prime ministers and ministers declare that they have no right to let Russia win – it must be defeated. They have declared war. This is a war not at all between Ukraine and Russia, but between the West and Russia. There is a popular saying: “The West is prepared to fight to the last Ukrainian.” Just so. Ukraine is expendable in the fight against the Russian Federation and so all is acceptable. This is why neo-Nazism is flourishing and the Western sponsors are ignoring this. Moreover, they are taking part in training neo-Nazi units and motivating them to engage in anti-Russian actions. They have already banned the Russian language, starting with the fifth form, all Russian media and even the Ukrainian media in Russian, which are upholding the views of the opposition party. The Russian language is prohibited even in everyday life. During all these long years of blatant excesses, we couldn’t bring this home to NATO, the EU, the US, the OSCE or the Council of Europe. We couldn’t get them to notice the fact that this contradicts all the conventions that form the foundation for the defence of human rights in the international community.

After the current government came to power, Germany lost its last vestiges of independence. In the EU President of France Emanuel Macron is the only leader who is trying to talk about the EU’s “strategic autonomy.” I am sure that they won’t be allowed to have it. The EU is increasingly integrating with the North Atlantic Alliance and they don’t conceal this. Now Finland and Sweden are in the news. President of Russia Vladimir Putin said yesterday that we do not see any need for them to be concerned about their security. We see their decision, which was surely actively lobbied by Washington and NATO itself, as merely a geopolitical move to deter Russia and implement NATO’s plan to spread its actions to the Arctic region. President of Finland Sauli Niinisto and Finnish ambassadors are saying everywhere that their country does not see any threats coming from Russia while its accession to NATO is determined by the change of the security situation in Europe. There is no logic in this. You don’t see any threats from Russia but the security situation is changing because Russia is “aggressive.” It is inappropriate to make such statements. Finland, Sweden and other neutral countries have been taking part in NATO exercises for a long time. NATO is taking into account their territory in its military planning of eastward expansion. This doesn’t make much difference in this sense. We will have to see how NATO will use their territory and we will draw conclusions. But the EU as such, now that Germany has lost its independence and France is trying futilely to promote its strategic autonomy theses, is already merging with NATO in practice. Now as regards its membership as well.

As for the insult of Germany by the Ukrainian Ambassador. He is notorious for this. His rudeness has long been the talk of the town and German politicians with any sense of dignity have raised it more than once. But when Chancellor Olaf Scholz was asked to respond to the insult of being called a “sulky liver sausage”, he said he would leave it up to journalists to draw their own conclusions. In other words, he didn’t take offense. So, the word “sulky” can be removed from the phrase.
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mid.ru...