Russia Ukraine Update Thread - part 2

25 April update

Key Takeaways

* Russian forces resumed ground attacks against Mariupol’s Azovstal Steel Plant in the last 24 hours. Russian officers may assess they will be unable to starve out the remaining defenders by May 9 (a possible self-imposed deadline to complete the capture of Mariupol). Russian forces will likely take high casualties if they resume major ground assaults to clear the facility.

* Russian forces are accelerating efforts to secure occupied Mariupol but will likely face widespread Ukrainian resistance.

* Continued Russian attacks in eastern Ukraine took little to no additional territory in the past 24 hours.

* Prudent tactical Ukrainian counterattacks around Izyum are likely impeding Russian efforts to complete even tactical encirclements of Ukrainian forces.

* Russian forces are preparing for renewed attacks to capture the entirety of Kherson Oblast in southern Ukraine after minor losses in the past 48 hours.

* Russian forces likely conducted a false flag attack in Transnistria (Russia’s illegally occupied territory in Moldova) to amplify Russian claims of anti-Russian sentiment in Moldova, but Transnistrian forces remain unlikely to enter the war in Ukraine.

More at URL above.

Cheers

originally posted by: xpert11
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Why would China send military personnel to supplement Russian forces in Ukraine in place of economic and military aid?

No probs and it simple if one follows the general flow of American imperialism / control on an easterly advancement since 1944.

Just look at it from a pair of Chinese shoes. You look out over your border and see the stars spangeled banner flying in the wind in what was a once independent and in many ways allied Russia.

You know full well that the Yanks have been on a easterly colonial path and are heading towards your borders as sure as night follows day since subduing the natives in the Americas and the western colonial path was completed.

You as a chinese are next after Russia falls. Do you want to fight the yanks on your own border or keep Russia independent, an ideal bullwark to the Yanks and allied to you by backing them up in the defence of eastern Europe and thus Asia.

in earlier post i muttered how? is the Russia-v-Ukraine conflict was a scheme or Act & the USA was getting 'played' as the sucker with a ReSet Ukraine just bristling with heavy weaponry ...gifted by uncle Sam


this article pretty much confirms the scam going on...


The Ukraine War Is a Racket - LewRockwell

www.lewrockwell.com...

a reply to: St Udio

confirms? i see no such thing. i think that what has happened is you found somone who feels similarly to you on this topic and you are viewing it as confirmation due to your preconceived bias. not confirmation, though; just another opinion in a sea of bad takes.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

The thing is mate, that whole scenario is reliant on one huge and improbable assumption; that the USA is going to march through Russia.
It simply isn't going to happen.
Even if the intent or desire was there - which I doubt, if anything the USA is becoming more and more introspective at present - then despite being the single most powerful military force on earth the resources and logistics required to overrun Russia is far beyond their reach. It would be a mammoth task.

And lets face it, going on recent history Russian expansionism is a far more realistic threat than American expansionism.

China itself may feel threatened by a strong and powerful Russia....and as I said before, may even have designs on Russian territory.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

"easterly colonial path"

You couldn't be more wrong, Orbhunter.

You know why the USA is an attractive partner for the countries between Germany and Russia?

Because the USA can exert power but doesn't have designs on their territory or sovereignty.

No one makes them be in NATO or engage in bilateral agreements with the USA. They do that because their history with the powerful European countries to their east and west has been murderous.

That is the consequence of German and Russian national behavior, not that of the USA.

If you want to toss blame grenades, at least throw them where they deserve to go.

Cheers

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

The US has no desire nor will to invade Russia based on territorial expansion and that is the same line Putin uses to distract Russian citizens - that all countries with issues regarding Russia want to invade them. That mindset is the 1970/1980's cold war mentality that Putin exists in and he doesn't seem to understand that this is the 21st century. Ironically the "Imperialist" direction of your position seems to apply to Russia.

Belarus, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Georgia, Moldova, Azerbaijan... Not one of those countries has any desire to invade Russia yet Putin does have a desire to invade and occupy them. If you wish we can go down the road of Imperialist Russia and its expansionist policies?

Just like the US has no desire to invade and occupy China. However China has no problems and does have ambitions to invade surrounding countries.

While I understand your argument it is a bit one sided with facts and the intent of all countries in question.

It seems the only person who wants a war is Putin (and he is once again threatening nuclear war because countries are supplying Ukraine with weapons). The US, UK and France have not threatened China nor Russia with a nuclear attack even though our soldiers were killed by Russian / Chinese weapons.

Putin needs to live in the now (or be permanently retired). The Russian people deserve better.


ETA - I should have taken the time to read the responses by others since they nailed it head on.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

going on recent history Russian expansionism is a far more realistic threat than American expansionism.

China itself may feel threatened by a strong and powerful Russia....and as I said before, may even have designs on Russian territory.

They all up for it FB as behind the scenes the same families mafiosa are leading the way. Putin is a bear yet the bear master is right behind him. The bear only get fed if it does what the bear master say

Apparently, the "tanks" that Germany has stated it will supply to Ukraine are not tanks at all.

They are self-propelled anti aircraft guns of 35-mm caliber (Gepard).

Useful against helicopters and low flying jets.

www.dw.com...

Cheers

a reply to: F2d5thCavv2

No I not be critical of USA F2Cavv believe me the USA experiment has (largely) been of great good for Planet earth cetrainly when compared to the other offrings. Just seeing it from a Chines eperspective and from there if you look at your continent / borders it really does appear 1 USA is trying to encircle us 2 Yanks are moving closer to our borders all the time with lots of big weapons too

a reply to: Xcathdra

Total respect to your views Xcath they pretty nice and spot on............... I'm standing in a Chinese pair of shoes and looking at it from their perspective and it really does look like USA is goobbling up as much as Planet Earth as possible and installing puppet regimes with leaders educated in the States and holding dual nationals passports, it's not agreeable with China it just from their pair of shoes

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
a reply to: F2d5thCavv2

No I not be critical of USA F2Cavv believe me the USA experiment has (largely) been of great good for Planet earth cetrainly when compared to the other offrings. Just seeing it from a Chines eperspective and from there if you look at your continent / borders it really does appear 1 USA is trying to encircle us 2 Yanks are moving closer to our borders all the time with lots of big weapons too

I think China is more concerned about the USA interfering with its designs on Taiwan than approaching through Russia.

Yes, American soldiers are deploying to the eastern edge of NATO. The key is how many. Not enough to invade Russia by any measurement. But enough to reassure eastern edge NATO states that the USA will support them if things get ugly with Russia. If the USA did anything else, they would not be much of an ally for the other NATO states.

If I were the Chinese, I would be looking long and hard at the dynamics of warfare in Ukraine. There are lessons there for the Chinese. The sinking of the Moskva is, I'm sure, something they're analyzing.

Cheers

originally posted by: Freeborn

China itself may feel threatened by a strong and powerful Russia....and as I said before, may even have designs on Russian territory.

I have been saying for over 10 years now on ATS that if we were to talk about one country that could and would take Russia it is China. They share a huge border, they could put an Army that equaled the entire population of Russia with barely denting their own population, and really see nukes as just something they will work through as they look 100 years in the future. If they lost 800 million in a war I really do not think they care that much as long as they get their prize of the largest country with massive natural resources.

originally posted by: F2d5thCavv2

If I were the Chinese, I would be looking long and hard at the dynamics of warfare in Ukraine. There are lessons there for the Chinese. The sinking of the Moskva is, I'm sure, something they're analyzing.

Cheers

Do you think they are analyzing just how piss poor the Russians are performing. Add in the longer this war goes on the more the Russians will deplete their military resources. What happens in 6 months when China looks at Russia as the best opportunity to invade a depleted Russia and NATO would do nothing to stop them.

a reply to: Xtrozero

‘This is our land,’ China now claims Russia’s Vladivostok as part of its territory

China doesn’t want friends. It doesn’t want peaceful borders either. The only thing that China wants is territory- more and more of it. An expansionist China is already claiming maritime territory and islands within the territorial waters and Exclusive Economic Zones (EEZs) of other countries in the South China Sea and Japanese islands in the East China Sea.

In the Himalayas, China is encroaching Nepalese villages and trying to push the LAC further west along the Indo-Tibetan border in Ladakh. And now China is claiming territory of another neighbour- Russia.

At the root of China’s fresh claims in Russian territory is a video to celebrate the 160th anniversary of Vladivostok posted by the Russian Embassy on the Chinese social media website Weibo.

But the land mafia of a country that China has become, it objected instantly to the video posted by Russian Embassy. Chinese diplomats, journalists and jingoistic social media users soon went overboard.

Chinese internet users, including diplomats and officials, claim that Vladivostok used to be a part of China. They claim it was Qing’s Manchurian homeland but was annexed by the Russian empire in 1860 after China was defeated by the British and the French during the Second Opium war.

click link for article

In addition China claims Mt. Everest as well as -

If Beijing keeps going ahead with this logic, it will claim the territory of every other neighbour. China has border disputes with 18 countries, including Brunei, Tajikistan, India, North Korea, Nepal, Bhutan, Malaysia, Mongolia, South Korea and the Philippines. It claims territories based on historical precedent dating back to the 13th and 14th centuries.

It's not just India, China has border disputes with 18 countries. Here's the list

a reply to: Xcathdra

China will not fight India in an all out war, I don't think they can win that one, but Russia they can.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
a reply to: Xcathdra

China will not fight India in an all out war, I don't think they can win that one, but Russia they can.

Over the years there have been 3 (iirc) wars between India and China and that does not include skirmishes. As for Russia and India, the 2 countries dont share any border so if Russia invades India I dont think Russia would win. That's based on why would Russia invade India, what the point of the invasion and I think Russia would take massive casualties (like in Ukraine).

A war based on territorial expansion is obsolete.

Four Russian Tanks Destroyed By A Single Ukrainian Missile OP's