Russia Ukraine Update Thread - part 2

Thursday, May 19, 2022

The Senate passed the $40 Billion Ukraine "assistance" bill this afternoon, then they flew home for a long weekend.

But America's worst President ever, says a few items were left off the shopping list...

Because apparently the unprecedented and outrageous $40 billion that the Senate just approved for Ukraine aid wasn't enough, the Biden White House has just announced $100 million more in military assistance to the Ukrainian government Thursday afternoon.

As The Hill emphasizes, this came literally "moments after the Senate sent a $40 billion supplemental aid package to the president’s desk." More, more, more will now be the order of business, the American taxpayer and debt placed on their children's children be damned.

Source: www.zerohedge.com...

Reuters: US wants to give Ukraine “advanced anti-ship missiles” to defeat Russia's naval blockade. The White House is looking to arm Ukraine with Boeing Harpoon and Naval Strike missiles made by Kongsberg and Raytheon Technologies, Reuters reports, citing U.S. officials.

twitter.com...

additional info: www.reuters.com...

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

Manoeuvre warfare isn't taking place in Ukraine: The limitations of Russian and Ukrainian armed forces prevent them from taking a sledgehammer to a nut. Russia's main effort switched to Mariupol, which fell into their hands over the last 48 hours. So the territory regained by Ukrainian counterattacks is offset by the loss of Mariupol.


Moreover, the loss of Mariupol industrial centres will hurt the Ukrainian war effort. One of Russia's goals is to seize Ukraine's industrial and population bases. Yet Russian forces reduce those Ukrainian areas to rubble and massacre civilians, proving how, like Hitler and Stalin, Putin is a deranged tyrant.

At most, the 40 Bushmasters could transport 400 troops, but that doesn't factor in combat losses or vehicles undergoing maintenance. So that represents a battalion and not a brigade and divisional level operations. Moreover, if Bushmasters arrived in sufficient numbers, they would increase the Ukrainian's response time to put out spot fires.

But my hunch is that the Ukrainians have specific roles in mind for the vehicles. So the versatility of the vehicles provides scope for innovation. But that is depended upon the number of vehicles obtained.

a reply to: carewemust

Concerning the U.S. Government's budget deficit, humanitarian and military aid represents a drop in the ocean. Reestablishing industrial/manufacturing output to restock existing supplies of equipment and dispatch assistance to Ukraine is the pressing issue slipping under the radar.

Historians will have a field day assessing the array of international equipment employed by the Ukrainian armed forces. It is akin to a family using up leftover food to form the end of the week meal.

originally posted by: xpert11
a reply to: PatriotGames4u

Manoeuvre warfare isn't taking place in Ukraine: The limitations of Russian and Ukrainian armed forces prevent them from taking a sledgehammer to a nut. Russia's main effort switched to Mariupol, which fell into their hands over the last 48 hours. So the territory regained by Ukrainian counterattacks is offset by the loss of Mariupol.


Moreover, the loss of Mariupol industrial centres will hurt the Ukrainian war effort. One of Russia's goals is to seize Ukraine's industrial and population bases. Yet Russian forces reduce those Ukrainian areas to rubble and massacre civilians, proving how, like Hitler and Stalin, Putin is a deranged tyrant.

At most, the 40 Bushmasters could transport 400 troops, but that doesn't factor in combat losses or vehicles undergoing maintenance. So that represents a battalion and not a brigade and divisional level operations. Moreover, if Bushmasters arrived in sufficient numbers, they would increase the Ukrainian's response time to put out spot fires.

But my hunch is that the Ukrainians have specific roles in mind for the vehicles. So the versatility of the vehicles provides scope for innovation. But that is depended upon the number of vehicles obtained.

Marioupol was lost over 80 days ago, and there was near zero maneuver warfare going on there, it was old school russian city destruction from the start, they just encircled Marioupol and flattened everything in a pretty calculated fashion.


I don't think it's possible (or very helpful) for Ukraine to use Bushmasters as intended during this war, just not enough of them available, and no time for learning new tactics.

10 Infantry in each of 20 Bushmasters isn't going to effect this war much at all, but 10 artillery men riding 20 bushmasters into range while towing 2 M777s under the watchful eye of the latest light drone drone tech, a smallish number of Bushmasters being used like that could fairly quickly win this war.


They are an extremely valuable tool right away for leading the rapid response and assault force artillery teams though, a real force multiplier. It's this role that I was discussing.

This suddenly became Ukraine's most urgent need about a month ago when russia abandoned it's original invasion plans and switched to a ww1 style entrenched artillery war.



Bushmasters would also serve Ukraine well long term in their intended troop carrier role, and I hope Ukraine purchases 1000+ for that role after the war, using russian frozen russian funds for payment of course.

a reply to: xpert11


Did you notice that the U.S. just suddenly authorized another 18 M777s for Ukraine to match the number of additional Bushmasters announced yesterday?

Coincidence?

I don't believe in coincidences.




I also don't believe we'd be doing that if the early Bushmaster/M777 results were anything other than the astounding successes that our analysis here has already indicated

a reply to: xpert11


If only more Bushmasters and similar vehicles had been built before the russian invasion...

Why does it always take something with world war potential to remind certain countries to defend their population and neighbors?

It's always way too late by then.

originally posted by: WeDemBoyz

Reuters: US wants to give Ukraine “advanced anti-ship missiles” to defeat Russia's naval blockade. The White House is looking to arm Ukraine with Boeing Harpoon and Naval Strike missiles made by Kongsberg and Raytheon Technologies, Reuters reports, citing U.S. officials.

twitter.com...

additional info: www.reuters.com...

If this is a real thing, it means that Ukraine is preparing to retake Crimea, and the U.S. is helping them prepare.

These weapons aren't necessary (or even very helpful) for the current scope of the war, but they are absolutely required if Ukraine intends to retake Crimea by force.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

This topic came up recently with Peskov (Putins mouth piece). He was briefing the press / people and commented that Russia has no territorial issues with Finland or Sweden. He then said they will have territorial issues with Ukraine, which is something he has never said before. People are thinking that the Russian government is not only preparing its people for the loss of Donbas, but Crime as well.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: PatriotGames4u

This topic came up recently with Peskov (Putins mouth piece). He was briefing the press / people and commented that Russia has no territorial issues with Finland or Sweden. He then said they will have territorial issues with Ukraine, which is something he has never said before. People are thinking that the Russian government is not only preparing its people for the loss of Donbas, but Crime as well.

The very idea of losing Crimea seems too ridiculous for most russians to even consider as a result of both extremely strong brainwashing and a very clear understanding of what losing Crimea would mean for russia's future.

Everyday russians would likely hang putin from a utility pole mussolini style if they could get their hands on him after losing Crimea.




I still suspect that Ukraine is bluffing about this, but that would mean that the U.S. is now firmly in on the bluff.

Bluffing is stoopid.

Especially against a nuclear powered madman.

Do or do not, but never try to bluff a nuclear powered madman.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

True but better to bluff if it means tying Russian forces up in defense of something that wont be attacked. Putin took a lot of crap from the Russian people when he annexed Crimea. A LOT of money had to be shifted from other projects to pay for Crimea and thus far it seems that Crimea is nothing but a black hole for money.

The fact that Russia had to redeploy 4 BTG's in the northeast to try and stop Ukraine's advancement speaks volumes.

As for bluffing and nukes... If Putin realizes all he has to do is invade a country and then immediately annex occupied territory, using the excuse that any attempt to retake the land can be met with nuke use because the country they stole the land from would be invading Russian territory. I would rather risk a nuclear exchange than live in a world where Russia sets a standard that Russia, China, N. Korea etc can invade whomever they wish and get away with it because of nukes.

The other possibility is to just assassinate the mf. Putin and the godless bitch from Chechnya opened the door by trying to assassinate Zelinskyy. Turnabout is fair play.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: PatriotGames4u

True but better to bluff if it means tying Russian forces up in defense of something that wont be attacked. Putin took a lot of crap from the Russian people when he annexed Crimea. A LOT of money had to be shifted from other projects to pay for Crimea and thus far it seems that Crimea is nothing but a black hole for money.

The fact that Russia had to redeploy 4 BTG's in the northeast to try and stop Ukraine's advancement speaks volumes.

If putin wasn't a madman making repeated nuke threats about such things I'd agree completely.

Retaking Crimea by force is not worth risking even a 'small' nuclear exchange, better to just strangle russia's economy until russia begs Ukraine to take Crimea back in exchange for sanctions relief.

Ukraine can survive the delay while busy rebuilding the rest of their country with russian funds, but russia has zero chance of surviving sanctions that are effectively global cancellation of russia.

19 May update

Key Takeaways

* Russian forces are intensifying operations to advance north and west of Popasna in preparation for an offensive toward Severodonetsk.

* Russian and proxy authorities in Mariupol are struggling to establish coherent administrative control of the city.

* Russian forces reportedly attempted to regain control of the settlements they lost during the Ukrainian counteroffensive north of Kharkiv City.

* Russian forces are bolstering their naval presence around Snake Island to fortify their grouping on the island.

Russian forces are continuing to suffer shortages of reserve manpower, causing the Russian military command to consolidate depleted battalion tactical groups (BTGs). An unnamed US defense official reported that Russian forces still have 106 BTGs operating in Ukraine but had to disband and combine some to compensate for losses.

Russian media and local Telegram channels reported deliberate acts of arson against military commissariats in three Moscow Oblast settlements—Omsk, Volgograd, Ryazan Oblast, and Khanty-Mansi Autonomous District—between May 4 and May 18.

More at URL above.

Cheers

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

Then where do you draw the line if he knows all he has to do is threaten the use of nukes?

When Putin decides he wants Alaska back? Or Western Canada.
Or the Pacific Northwest?

All those territories used to be owned by Russia and Putin is on the kick of claiming land that used to historically belong to Russia.

* - Russian army shelled Boyaro-Lezhachi, Brusky, Stari Vyrky of Sumy region and Hremyach of Chernihiv region, - General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine says in the morning report

* - At Kurakhivka direction Russian army conducted offensive near Novomykhailivka and Oleksandrivka without success, - General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine says in the morning report

* - At Novopavlivka direction Russian troops suffered loses near Novodarivka and withdraw to previous positions, - General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine in morning statement

* - Russian army shelled Senkivka village in Chernihiv region with 120mm mortars

* - Kharkiv region: active clashes near Ternova and Vesele, shelling against Ruska Lozova. In last 24 hours Russian troops shelled Kyivsky, Saltovsky and Oleksiivsky districts of Kharkiv with MRLS Smerch, GRAD and Uragan. Fire at Mala Danylovka village as result of shelling this morning

* - The European Parliament has accused Russia of using rape as weapon of war in Ukraine. MEPs described the use of sexual violence as "systemic" and "horrific". They call for a special international tribunal to investigate and prosecute those responsible

* - Russian missile was shot down this morning in Kyiv region

* - Russian troops shelled Velyka Kostromka twice

* - 1 killed today as result of Russian army shelling in Kharkiv

* - Details of the new US, @DeptofDefense $100 million aid package to Ukraine: - (18) 155mm Howitzers; - (18) Tactical Vehicles to tow 155mm Howitzers; - (3) AN/TPQ-36 counter-artillery radars; and - Field equipment & spare parts0

* - 5 people killed, 6 wounded as result of Russian shelling today in Donetsk region

* - 0"Kvadro" shopping mall in Ukrainian-controlled Avdiivka in the Donetsk Oblast was on fire on May 19 due to Russian shelling

* - Sec Blinken today: "Every UN member state should press Russia to stop actions that are making the food crisis in Ukraine and around the globe worse than it already was

* - 1730 Ukrainian servicemen left the territory of Azovstal, 80 wounded among them (being reported by the AP)

As a reminder

Just so people know and understand. Information from war zones can become confusing as there will no doubt be info released from the players (on both sides) involved that might not necessarily be true.

As such take everything as a possibility and NOT as absolute truth.

The very first casualty in a war is the truth and all warfare is based on deception

Resources - Where most of the updates come from.
* - Flightradar24 - tracks flights worldwide
* - Live Ukraine control map 1 - updates on the ground
* - Ukraine Control Map 2
* - Ship radar
* - Military vessel tracker
* - Institute for the Study of War (ISW)
* - Stopfake - Countering Russian propaganda about Ukraine
* - MilitaryLand - Maps

Youtube resources -
* - Speak the Truth
* - War in Ukraine
* - Artur Rehi - Estonain soldier
* - Daily Report

Social media resources -
* - Twitter - Jomini of the West - Battlefield Maps

* - Several more houses destroyed in the evening shelling of Velyka Kostromka in Dnipropetrovsk region

* - "I am announcing another package of security assistance that will provide additional artillery, radars, and other equipment to Ukraine, which they are already using so effectively on the battlefield," says statement from @POTUS on the US Senate's passage of more aid for Ukraine

* - A $40 billion Ukraine aid package passed the Senate with bipartisan support. It now goes to President Biden and takes America's commitment to almost $54 billion

* - The Senate passed, 86-11, Ukraine supplemental funding bill (HR 7691) that would provide approximately $40.1 billion in emergency funding to support the Ukrainian resistance against the Russian invasion

* - Post by Ukraine parliament's ombudswoman Ludmyla Denisova on sexual violence committed by Russian soldiers against Ukrainian kids

* - At Avdiyivka direction Russian army attempted to conduct offensive actions near Vesele, but suffered loses and retreated, - General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine says in the morning report

* - Russian army assaulted Sieverodonetsk and Toshkivka in Luhansk region, - General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine says in the morning report

* - At Lyman direction Russian army conducted shelling near Dibrova and Zakitne, - General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine says in the morning report

* - Russian army shelled areas around Dovhenke, Velyka Komyshuvakha and Dolyna at Sloviansk direction, - General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine says in the morning report

* - Footage from @nytimes shows Russian soldiers leading a group of Ukrainian captives to a courtyard where they were executed on March 4 in Ukraine's Bucha

* - Russian army conducted offensive near Vyskryva, Volodymyrivka and Vasylivka villages at Bakhmut direction, suffered loses near Oleksandropillya , - General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine says in the morning report

As a reminder

Just so people know and understand. Information from war zones can become confusing as there will no doubt be info released from the players (on both sides) involved that might not necessarily be true.

As such take everything as a possibility and NOT as absolute truth.

The very first casualty in a war is the truth and all warfare is based on deception

Resources - Where most of the updates come from.
* - Flightradar24 - tracks flights worldwide
* - Live Ukraine control map 1 - updates on the ground
* - Ukraine Control Map 2
* - Ship radar
* - Military vessel tracker
* - Institute for the Study of War (ISW)
* - Stopfake - Countering Russian propaganda about Ukraine
* - MilitaryLand - Maps

Youtube resources -
* - Speak the Truth
* - War in Ukraine
* - Artur Rehi - Estonain soldier
* - Daily Report

Social media resources -
* - Twitter - Jomini of the West - Battlefield Maps

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: PatriotGames4u

Then where do you draw the line if he knows all he has to do is threaten the use of nukes?

When Putin decides he wants Alaska back? Or Western Canada.
Or the Pacific Northwest?

All those territories used to be owned by Russia and Putin is on the kick of claiming land that used to historically belong to Russia.

I think putin himself probably said it best, when an action is percieved to threaten russia's existence.

And I mean that in his completely insane version of 'threaten russian existence'.



Retaking all of Ukraine except Crimea doesn't fit even putin's crazy a$$ version of "threatening russia's existence", but destroying russia's bases in Crimea certainly would.


Besides, it would be fitting for a future russian leader to beg Ukraine to take Crimea back in exchange for some sanctions relief, and russians in Crimea wouldn't really threaten anyone until then anyway.

This might be the closest that Ukraine can come to giving putin any kind of 'face saving' 'win' in exchange for ending the killing a little sooner, a hollow 'win' that's actually an albatross.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

Yeah i'm tired of the face saving bull# for Putin. He has everyone trying to walk on eggshells. He is the NTAC 2.0 compliant idiot who decided to invade Ukraine. He is the idiot who created the environment of incompetence.

So you sign a treaty with Russia that ends the war. That will give Putin time to reconstitute his forces, replace military / intel leadership, and in a couple years then pick back up trying to take all of Ukraine.

Putin must be stopped. Appeasement will not work. Walking on eggshells will not work. Allowing him to save face will not work.

3 NATO countries also have nukes. If putin is retarded enough to use them, then they should be used on Russia.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

I noticed how Australia and the US are dispatching the same kind of military hardware in the same time frames. Undoubtedly, international military and humanitarian aid to Ukraine is a coordinated global effort. For all his flaws, Boris Johnson positioned the UK as one of the leaders in dispatching aid to Ukraine. The same applies to Scot Morrison and Australia.

The UK and Australia follow the US's lead in global military deployments and assistance. During the Suez Crisis (1956), the UK and France acted without the Eisenhower admin's approval, which is one of the primary reasons for the disaster.

Moreover, if Australia supplies new Bushmasters to Ukraine, they might step ahead of the US. However, behind closed doors, the US might give Australia discrete support for that assistance package to Ukraine.