I would like to draw your attention to this speech by Putin

originally posted by: captaintyinknots

originally posted by: NorthOfStuff

originally posted by: captaintyinknots

originally posted by: NorthOfStuff

originally posted by: captaintyinknots

originally posted by: ThatDamnDuckAgain
a reply to: captaintyinknots
Still the truth, right?
2nd.

sure. How exactly is that relevant? Does it excuse all future war crimes? Does it mean Putin can act with impunity?


Be honest.

It show a whole pile of cherry picking hypocrisy.

Everything is relevant in war. Historical context can make the world of difference.

A lot of people are treating Russia’s aggression as if it happened in a vacuum. It didn’t.

I know, “but Russia invaded”.

Same excuse Saddam and Gaddafi used on the US ya?

So then, explain to me how the bombings in ww2 are relevant here. Do they justify Putin’s actions?

It’s a simple question.

The Germans were nazis and we bombed the hell out of them.

Uhhh…ok….

You didn’t explain how it’s relevant.

Since you brought up ww2 and asked why it was relevant I answered you.

My comment pointed to the Middle East and Central America.

originally posted by: NorthOfStuff

originally posted by: captaintyinknots

originally posted by: NorthOfStuff

originally posted by: captaintyinknots

originally posted by: NorthOfStuff

originally posted by: captaintyinknots

originally posted by: ThatDamnDuckAgain
a reply to: captaintyinknots
Still the truth, right?
2nd.

sure. How exactly is that relevant? Does it excuse all future war crimes? Does it mean Putin can act with impunity?


Be honest.

It show a whole pile of cherry picking hypocrisy.

Everything is relevant in war. Historical context can make the world of difference.

A lot of people are treating Russia’s aggression as if it happened in a vacuum. It didn’t.

I know, “but Russia invaded”.

Same excuse Saddam and Gaddafi used on the US ya?

So then, explain to me how the bombings in ww2 are relevant here. Do they justify Putin’s actions?

It’s a simple question.

The Germans were nazis and we bombed the hell out of them.

Uhhh…ok….

You didn’t explain how it’s relevant.

Since you brought up ww2 and asked why it was relevant I answered you.

My comment pointed to the Middle East and Central America.

I didn’t bring it up.

To quote the Dude: “Donny, you’re like a child who wanders in on the middle of a movie and asks what’s happening”

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: YouSir

"BTW…I call them…”the greater unwashed”…not the ignorant masses…"


No you didn't.




"To see the ignorance of the masses…"

Ummmm, why lie about what you said when it's there for all to see?

Ummm…twice things…

1…“To see the ignorance of the masses”…is not calling the masses ignorant…it’s merely pointing to certain behavioral characteristics that the masses often display…nowhere did I state that the masses are ignorant…

2…I only used the characterization in my post response…because the author I was responding to…described certain masses as ignorant…

3…when I opine about the masses…I tend to use the descriptor…”greater unwashed”…it has such a tantalizing quaintness to it…don’t you think…?

4…one only allows one’s ego to find offense in a descriptor…if one thinks of oneself defined by said descriptor…
Which is merely an individual choice to include oneself in such…

Oh dear…

Twice…times twice…



YouSir

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: turretless

He said what a lot of us are thinking.

Some of us here on ATS actually have the balls to say what we're thinking.

Putin would make a better leader of the United States than Joe Biden is. No doubt about that.

A 17 year in charge (so far) dictator is your wish?

He also recently passed a bill to be allowed to stay in till 2036

yikes....that is so far from democracy its untrue, not sure having anyone like that in charge is a positive, any opposition to his masters voice stands no chance

a reply to: YouSir

Blimey.

How Orwellian of you.

Umm (by the way that is just so irritating) trying to make sense of your post.

No, I give up. There isn't any.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: YouSir

"BTW…I call them…”the greater unwashed”…not the ignorant masses…"

No you didn't.

"To see the ignorance of the masses…"

Ummmm, why lie about what you said when it's there for all to see?

To say that the masses are ignorant does not mean that their intellectual faculty is damaged and retarded. It means that they are established in a state of ignoring certain facets of the truth which would cause them to doubt the collective reality. That is, the collective reality of the culture they were raised in. It does not mean they are stupid. It actually means that they are very cunning....and dangerous. Today they wear grosby slippers and shuffle about their council flats spouting moralistic yap yap yapping and tomorrow they exchange those slippers for Doc Martin bovver boots.

a reply to: rickymouse




Then do you approve of Ukraine's threat on 19 February to use nuclear weapons against Russia?

Actions & words have consequences.

In 2016 G7 nations and the EU together raised nearly a billion dollars to build a nuclear fuel reprocessing plant at Chornobyl to harvest Plutonium from spent fuel rods. Ukraine amassed a huge stockpile of Plutonium from 21,000 spent fuel rods each weighing 63kg (1, 323,000 metric tons ) stored at Chornobyl.




I bet if this was North Korea you would demand a US invasion?
Yet somehow because this is Russia , they are not permitted to defend their national security?

a reply to: HilterDayon

You do realise, your post is bonkers?

The rest of the free World lives in Council Flats?
Do they wear "Cor Blimey trousers" too?

OK......

a reply to: YouSir

Yea, I'm definitely not a fan of the newfound warhawkishness that's taken the world by storm. Has a very Iraqi freedom fries vibe to it. The ol "you're not a patriot if you don't support the cause".

I understand Russia's stance, and think we've already gone way too far in helping Ukraine... But I think it was a bit hyperbolic of CWM to say Putin would be a better president for America than any US president, no matter how bad they were.

a reply to: ThatDamnDuckAgain

Yea, the whole "fight for morality" rings empty with me.

It was glaring when we asked Saudi Arabia for them to increase oil production for the US since we cut Russia off. They're doing far worse things in Yemen than Russia is doing in Ukraine.

It's not about Ukraine, or freedom in the context of world politicians. We all support certain dictators if they play ball with our agenda.

I mean, gun to my head, I think any country has every right to defend their borders, Ukraine is no exception. Just doesn't mean I want to commit my nations resources to help them, especially when it will just make their situation worse.

a reply to: CriticalStinker



It is very much part of the Gobbels propaganda formula to cast Russia as the big bad bully to scare people into accepting the necessity for war with Russia which is in fact totally unnecessary and irrational



Russia has a perfectly reasonable justification for attacking Ukraine including:

• "1"
  
• Ukraine's threat on 19 February to use nuclear weapons
  
• US Biolabs in Ukraine
  
• 14,000 ethnic Russians murdered in Donbass by Ukrainian shelling
  
• Ukrainian promotion of neo Nazis LIKE Navalny in Russia
  

a reply to: PacificViking

I get Russia has a position, and I don't want my country to intervene. It's not me or mines fight or right.

I don't see everything as black and white, good and evil. It's far more nuanced than that.

And I understand some of the points you brought up are talking points, some of them easy to empathize with (NATO expansion)...

But I thought Ukraine said they were considering building nukes. I know there is a huge disinformation war, but threatening to use and build for deterrence are two different things.

Also, is Navalny really a neo Nazi? Or are we just throwing around the term Nazi like always?

a reply to: CriticalStinker

My reply to you was not an attack on you personally, but using the opportunity in reply to state some issues that a wider audience should consider.

You should seek out a transcript of what Zelensky said at Munich. To paraphrase he said if Nato will not evict Russia from Crimea, then Ukraine will repudiate the 1994 Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances (to Russia) and acquire nuclear weapons to do the job itself. Putin was left in no doubt that Zelensky was threatening Russia.

since then Russian forces found a lab in Kharkiv was fabricating nuclear warheads with help from Israel.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

Same view here, Putin is clearly doing an invasion and Ukraine has every right to defend. I will say though that Ukraine asked for that when they announced going nuclear and went into bed with NATO. This is not a judgement about how Russia is justified because of that, but in combination with the other things going on there, the US imported corruption, the NAZI (watch for the red black flag) and the shelling of Donetsk, Putin got the best excuses and if the Donetsk massacres are true, had to go in.

IDK. There is no innocent side here, only the citizens that are not calling for all of this. And I don't want my country to send weapons, that happened already though. Not because so we do not get involved, we are #ed 100% if it goes nuclear, Germany will be wiped off the map completely. The first warheads will detonate here taking out US bases and nuclear weapons storages. Rammstein first.

Bluntly said, the Ukrainian government acted with big balls towards Putin, but only because they thought they have support. They way Zelensky demanded us Germans to send weapons because of our past and the way he seems to have zero issues deploying children with weapons delivered from Germany is a deal breaker for me. The latter is the true deal breaker.

And then he got what we call "oberwasser", he got overconfident in his support from other countries. As of now I am unsure if he fell for it and really thought the US and EU will come to rescue, or if he is just a crazy guy poking the bear risking WW3 and possibly nuclear exchange.

That he announced getting nuclear weapons either by allies or on his own to point them towards Russia, I think that's pure insanity. The fact he is willing to send civilians and their children into this war speaks volumes too. At some point one has to decide to protect the civilians by calling defeat. What worth is the heritage of the country if everyone is dead in the end? I get it some find that heroic and me saying it blasphemic.

Romantic "defend until the last drop bla bla" reads nice and strong on the internet but in a situation like Ukraine / Russia, there will be only one winner and it's Russia. At some time, Ukraine gov has IMHO to consider defeat to protect the civilians left over that will be mostly children, elderly and women. Everything else leads to WW3 and frankly the Ukrainian gov asked for this to happen. Not justifying Putin with it, but knock long enough on devils door, do not wonder he finally opens and is annoyed with you, too.

a reply to: chr0naut

If Putin was a communist then since he was under investigation in Germany for his Statement " Communism is a dead-end" I doubt it.

a reply to: PacificViking

I didn't take it as a personal attack, so no harm no foul.

And as I said, I understand that Russia has some valid quarrels, mainly NATO expansion right up to their doorstep.

I question my nation's (US) intentions as much as Russia's. I've always been critical of our foreign policy as it doesn't align with my, or a vast mority of our citizens needs or agendas.

Personally, I see the Ukrainian people as being stuck in yet another proxy war. And while I recognize Russia's grievences, it doesn't mean that they are "good".

At first they said this was boarder line a humanitarian mission, one where they'd be met with open arms (I've heard this one from my own govt before). Clearly that's not the case. A majority of Ukrainians don't want them there, if they did, why is the lions share of refugees heading west, and not into Russia?

Alas, we're both interpreting this s### storm of disinfo the best we can.

But I am curious, what about Navalny is neo Nazi?

a reply to: ThatDamnDuckAgain

I think that's the best way to sum this up. Out of all the major players, no one is righteous. Normal plebs will take the brunt of any and all fallout.

originally posted by: captaintyinknots

originally posted by: NorthOfStuff

originally posted by: captaintyinknots

originally posted by: NorthOfStuff

originally posted by: captaintyinknots

originally posted by: NorthOfStuff

originally posted by: captaintyinknots

originally posted by: ThatDamnDuckAgain
a reply to: captaintyinknots
Still the truth, right?
2nd.

sure. How exactly is that relevant? Does it excuse all future war crimes? Does it mean Putin can act with impunity?


Be honest.

It show a whole pile of cherry picking hypocrisy.

Everything is relevant in war. Historical context can make the world of difference.

A lot of people are treating Russia’s aggression as if it happened in a vacuum. It didn’t.

I know, “but Russia invaded”.

Same excuse Saddam and Gaddafi used on the US ya?

So then, explain to me how the bombings in ww2 are relevant here. Do they justify Putin’s actions?

It’s a simple question.

The Germans were nazis and we bombed the hell out of them.

Uhhh…ok….

You didn’t explain how it’s relevant.

Since you brought up ww2 and asked why it was relevant I answered you.

My comment pointed to the Middle East and Central America.

I didn’t bring it up.

To quote the Dude: “Donny, you’re like a child who wanders in on the middle of a movie and asks what’s happening”

"Yeah, Well, That's Just, Like, Your Opinion, Man."

The Dude.

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