Russia Ukraine Update Thread

a reply to: all2human

Do you seriously think Europe and/or NATO can disarm and dissolve in light of Russia's aggression?

In one fell swoop Putin has achieved what no-one else in history has done; unifying Europe.
The whole of Europe opposes him, his near-by neighbours fear him....there is absolutely no chance Europe will stand down.

There are many contributory factors to this crisis including NATO expansionism and a failure to invest in and assist Russia in the immediate aftermath of the break up of the USSR/Warsaw Pact.

But none of that excuses Putin's invasion of a neighbouring independent country.

Have you ever sat back and wondered why so many of these former USSR/Warsaw Pact countries want to join NATO?
Because they have endured 40-50 years of being Russian vassal states and they don't want to experience it again!
Have you any idea what life was like for these people?
They fear Russian expansionism and Putin's actions have vindicated those fears.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: all2human

Russia would have had to be willing to destroy her nuclear weapons stockpile after the Soviet union and Warsaw pact came apart if they wished to see NATO dissolved.

Russia has brought NATO to her doorstep by way of Putin's illegal invasion, if in doubt well see how Finland and Sweden now feel regarding the defensive organisation.

I think you might find that the USA brought NATO to Russia's doorstep through regime change in the Ukraine. Of course they didn't force Russia to invade but they knew the red line for Russia. That's why they took over Crimea back in 2014. We might not agree with such action but we can at least understand Russian security concerns. The US want this proxy war, no doubt about it. Just listen to all those bleeding heart pundits and politicians, you really think they care?

And regards whataboutism, that's the easy get out catchy word to avoid the reality we face when talking about the American regime. It is a regime after all. It's great for Biden too, he can now blame all of Americas economic woes on Russia.

America can illegally invade countries whenever they like. No sanctions or payback but of course it's different for everybody else. Americans either have the shortest of memories or the brassest of necks to condemn anyone.

Zelensky has a lot to answer for. He is a Nato puppet and has played his own part in Ukraine's' downfall. He too is responsible for all those deaths that have ensued. A wise man might have looked at the geopolitical situation and remained neutral. Thus acknowledging Russia's security concerns. Nato likewise could have done the same thing but the US war machine want this proxy war. Let's not forget too that regime change is the American way.

a reply to: andy06shake

Nato could’ve avoided this and can stop this by agreeing to Ukraine neutrality. Why don’t they want Ukraine to be barred from entry to nato? Because that would infringe their democratic right to choose? Maybe that’s true, but I doubt the folk making those decisions - the same folk ATS aims it’s theories of corruption, surveillance and mass population control at - are refusing neutrality because they believe in ‘freedom’. Imo they refuse because they covet Ukraine strategic position. And even if I’m wrong, this is no doubt what Putin believes. So we can talk all we want about how bad and wrong Putin is, but moral high ground never secured a peace, let alone a victory.

a reply to: Freeborn

"Have you ever sat back and wondered why so many of these former USSR/Warsaw Pact countries want to join NATO?"

Coz of the one for all, all for one, ideology i suppose.

Putin don't like or can handle those odds.

Just like Nazi Germany and the axis powers could not hope to compete with the allied alliance once they got there act together WW2 era.

a reply to: midicon

I dont agree with America invading countries whenever they like nor trying to police the world.

As to the whataboutism well that's Russia bread and butter midicon.

"Volodymyr Zelenskyy" may indeed have a lot to answer for, but its not the invasion of his peaceful neighbour nation that's a given.

Nether is he threatening the use of nuclear weapons, so there is that.

a reply to: McGinty

Nato could’ve avoided this and can stop this by agreeing to Ukraine neutrality.

Its not up to NATO or Russia to decide if Ukraine is neutral, its up to Ukraine itself.

In light of this invasion do you honestly think many Ukrainians will want to be 'neutral'?
Would you?

a reply to: McGinty

Its could all have been avoided McGinty, thats the thing.

What a crap start this century is off to if you think about it.

Talk about history repeating. LoL

If this crap was not so darn dangerous it would be bloody hilarious.

a reply to: andy06shake

Its because they don't want to be under Russian control again.....they didn't like it last time.
The Warsaw Pact wasn't exactly an alliance of equals.

a reply to: Freeborn



Well said.

And hence the reason it fell on its arse, or at least a serious contender as to failure.

These Eastern European nations want there time in the sun just like the rest of the continent.

And its not like Russia or the CCCP back then could ever provide an environment where they could thrive.

a reply to: Freeborn

What's good for the goose
wev'e seen in the last 3 decades a complete disregard for international law
by countries i don't need to name
As with other nations, I don't condone what Russia has done
But people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones
if we flip the script and saw an opposite scenario in say Canada,and considered the reaction from the USA
Russia's actions start to become a bit more understandable

a reply to: andy06shake

I agree with your post Andy but Russia has to remind NATO and the US that they will use nukes if need be. They face destruction otherwise. I have no doubt that Russia won't use nukes unless they face destruction. Nuclear weapons are a last resort for any nation, even Russia. In reality it's all they have when it comes to such a confrontation.

a reply to: McGinty

Ukrainian neutrality is a smokescreen for turning that country into a Russian puppet state. Putin doesn't acknowledge Ukraine's right to exist, so there is no point in entertaining the idea of a peace settlement. Furthermore, adapting non-alignment status would leave Ukraine economically trapped between the EU and Russia.

a reply to: all2human

"Russia's actions don't seem that unreasonable."

Quite a few Ukrainians would seem to disagree.

Hence Putin's predicament i suppose.

Tell me this if Russia does manage to take Ukraine how are they supposed to hold it?

a reply to: midicon

Its a hell of a predicament midicon thats for sure.

I don't see it being resolved on the battlefield all the same.

Better to sit down at the peace table and sort the mess out before it gets a whole lot worse for both sides.

Putin don't seem to be able to do that and save face through, which given his personality is apt to be rather problematic.

a reply to: all2human

Two wrongs and all that.

I never particularly supported the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan....why would I support Putin's invasion of Ukraine?

Sure, I've stated several times that if Russia was doing in Mexico or Canada what NATO did in eastern Europe the USA's response would probably have been more severe and extreme than Russia's in Ukraine.
But they haven't....so its a hypothetical and as such a pretty lame and rather irrelevant excuse.

The reality of the situation is that Russia has invaded an independent country and is killing people.

And whether you like it or not the FACT remains that Putin is using the threat of nuclear war as a means to bully, intimidate and enforce his will.

a reply to: xpert11

Despite the fact that the place can trace its origins back further than its Russian counterpart.

Kyiv being 665 years older than Moscow.

Putin needs to brush up on history as well as military tactics or so it seems.

a reply to: Freeborn


If i had enough fingers to count on the countries that this has happened to
a shot of humility is due
We should not support what is happening
not just to Ukraine but in other nations too

a reply to: Freeborn

if Russia was doing in Mexico or Canada what NATO did in eastern Europe the USA's response would probably have been more severe and extreme than Russia's in Ukraine

I often see that argument used without any justification or reasoning behind.

Nuclear subs can approach US coast today, and no response is expected from US because no response is due. The cartels in Mexico are certainly more dangerous than a missile battery, and cause more deaths than a missile, yet no response is due, because borders are there for a very good reason.

The problem with Ukraine is not whether it could host missiles. Russia can be easily hit with missiles from anywhere with today's technology, and, in fact, every country can be hit by missiles laucnhed from anywhere.

So no, the eunuch has no justification for invading Ukraine. And if he fears, and if he is scared, and if he is frightened and considers an existential threat missiles in Ukraine the best thing he can do is this: to never have been born. Because, you see, this world is dangerous at many levels. So no: invading a country because you are frightened is like not going for a walk 'cos you fear someone could stab you. The eunuch is just a fearful little kid.

a reply to: Freeborn

We can either potentially suffer an extinction event because it’s not fair to tell Ukraine if they can join nato or not, or we can take the bitter pill that not everyone can choose to take military sides if they’re sandwiched between nuclear armed foes.

Scotland and Mexico have the democratic right to choose to join a Russian military alliance. If they did that how long would their neighbouring nato countries respect their democratic rights. We’d be inundated with propaganda about how evil their leaders were, followed by invasion (to ‘save’ its populace) and a coup to install a nato friendly puppet leader.

…Which is more or less Putin’s rationale and the stated narrative. Unless we respond to Putin the way we’d expect to be responded to in the above scenario then the conflict and the killing will continue. Throwing our toys out the pram over Putin doing something we would probably do (and could be said to have done in the distant and recent past) is the narrative those that are profiting from this conflict are selling us in the msm. I’d have thought ATS would be the last place that anyone would buy that emotively manipulative psy-op BS.

It’s whimsical values of right & wrong vs hard realities of international diplomacy. In past times, perhaps due to the wake of global conflict this reality was understood by all. Now in these woke times it seems that decadent luxuries and a weaponised media has lulled people into somehow believing their values can protect them from anything and everything.

There’s no shortage in London of middle class idiots riding bikes with terrified toddlers in little buggies hooked on back. They cycle their precious cargo along the busy circular getting in the way of articulated lorries thundering by just inches from crushing them. Why would any parent risk such a thing? Because ‘they have the Right to do it’, because they’re entitled to. Because they’re following the Highway Code and are doing nothing wrong…

…What solace will that be to them when a lorry driver not paying 100% attention accidentally ploughs over the buggy?

These parents are pampered fvcking idiots for assuming that Rights and Entitlement somehow shields them from the reality of the juggernaut besides them; that deluded ignorance makes them equally as responsible as the lorry driver for what’s happened. If they’d pulled their head out their entitled arse long enough to respect the realities of the situation the accident wouldn’t have happened.

There’ll be no solace in citing the entitlement to autonomy if the northern hemisphere is incinerated by insisting on the right to cycle between these nuclear juggernauts. I hope those in charge pull their heads out their arses long enough to see that a neutral zone makes real world sense.

a reply to: all2human

We should not support what is happening
not just to Ukraine but other nations too

Yes, I agree.
But it is the situation in Ukraine that is threatening world security and stability at this very moment in time.

we all deserve a shot of humility

None more so than Putin for it is his ego, his arrogance and his thirst for 'greatness' and desire to restore Russia's 'former glory' that is continuing to drive this conflict and preventing an end to the death and destruction.