Lockdowns in U.S. Europe had little impact in reducing deaths from COVID-19

a reply to: LordAhriman

But because they are already locked down by being an island, they have that luxury.

Let's look at the US and the southern border and then you tell me how effective it is to point at New Zealand and try to act all high and mighty about their lockdown strategy.

originally posted by: putnam6

I didn't. Cool joke.

Any study that says you can catch and spread a virus while you're at home, by yourself, is wrong.

originally posted by: LordAhriman
Makes total sense. If you're infected with something that spreads through your breath, and you stay home and come into contact with nobody, EVERYONE will get it! If you go out maskless and yell in a Walmart door greeter's face, no virus is spread.

This is why I listen to podcasts for medical information!

And America has never had any sort of lockdown so we can't use our data. How did New Zealand do? They actually lock down when there's a single case.

America absolutely had lockdowns in many locations (not all). Many locations had multiple month lockdowns (NYC), and multiple lockdowns. I myself went through two lockdowns during Covid, in the US. In NYC the data showed too that the lockdowns didn't appear to "stop the spread."

Did you listen to the Joe Rogan podcast with Dr. Malone? It sounds like you didn't, or are engaging in a disingenous argument about "podcasts." The platform doesn't matter, it's who is on the platform. In this case it was a medical expert who has patents on some of the original MRNA technology used in the vaccines. He worked on SARS, etc.

a reply to: putnam6

There was no lockdown.

What there was, was an effort to narrow and concentrate the population into just a few big-box stores. The viral vecotors were concentrated.

That enabled the virus to spread faster.

It's pretty telling when cases per capita in Brazil is at the same level as Australia....

originally posted by: Madviking
a reply to: putnam6

It's not just that, the lockdowns caused up to 200 million new people to be thrust into extreme poverty globally, due to the economic destruction. When I mean extreme poverty I mean starvation risk, not low income in the US sense. It put additional pressure on the 500 million people already in extreme poverty. This alone, will likely kill more over the next few years than any saved from Covid policies. When we see that mask and lockdown policies had no effect, then this only makes this impact worse.

Sadly, you are correct. Most people around the world look at the world at their front window and see it as it is in their neighborhood. I don't think many people have the luxury to have international cable news ( I sure don't ) so its impossible to understand the devastation this crappy shutdown of the economy done.
One example is that Toyota new car sales are down 43%. If it wasn't for the every 6 month inspections of their newer cars most dealerships would have closed down by now.

Also, since I think now many ATS members here live in Asia we get to see the poverty level in the countries we live in. Its truly unbelievable but that is how it is. Also, I've seen the poverty level in a few places in America and to tell you the truth if it wasn't for govt. assistance those places would be war zones. Here in Asia, family support is kind of on the decline due to its easy to move across the country and live and work. The elderly in this country have a saying: upon retirement one must have saved 250 thousand dollars. This seems not to be true with my generation these days though.
One in seven children live in poverty in this country. Sadly as I did some research, poverty reports ( currently ) are unavailable . But I think those that have a net spendable income of less then $20 grand USD are considered in the poverty level income. I think this is for single people.

It also is true, more people died last year of suicide then the covid virus.

Currently Japan is considering a soft toning of a ( lockdown ) I don't think we look at it that way here, might be wrong, more like putting voluntary restrictions and mandates on businesses. Japan closed its borders to tourist, but I think after May and the Comorin virus passes, the gates will be open. I saw first hand what lack of international tourist can do to the local and national economy. But it was a rude awakening also, Japan should not rely on tourism for a stable economy.

a reply to: musicismagic

Oh, poverty in the US is pretty bad. It would be tons worse if the government stopped propping so many up, but there are tent cities all up and down the west coast, and you never used to see as many homeless even in this area of the country as you do now.

We're likely living through Depression Era conditions and just aren't truly aware of it.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: putnam6

There was no lockdown.

What there was, was an effort to narrow and concentrate the population into just a few big-box stores. The viral vecotors were concentrated.

That enabled the virus to spread faster.

Im listening however you might have to dumb it down a little Im working on a fifth of Drambuie, for my sore throat.

Essentially you are asserting TPTB knew the repercussions and planned it to kill some of us and cripple us economically so they could implement control and monitoring measures. As well as enrich those in the know

I would assume this was done with a few willing partners, knowing whatever they did other countries would follow....

Sounds complex as hell...

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: musicismagic

Oh, poverty in the US is pretty bad. It would be tons worse if the government stopped propping so many up, but there are tent cities all up and down the west coast, and you never used to see as many homeless even in this area of the country as you do now.

We're likely living through Depression Era conditions and just aren't truly aware of it.

I agree with you about the Depression Era many Americans are living in these days. I'm actually afraid to kind of move back there if I have too in the future. Tent cities haven't taken on here yet, but the homeless here are being seen now as a silent vagrants which is not good for society. I don't think Japan has a safety net for homeless people without an address or bank account here. All major cities here now have cardboard shelters spread out among parks and other areas. Never thought about it, but I'll check and see about homeless camps in this country. Really, this country 35 years ago was pretty cool to live in. We had beer machines on every street and it wasn't a problem at all until us foreigners couldn't handle the freedom of them. Sadly, we destroyed that part of the culture here.

a reply to: putnam6

Not complex and cheers by the way.

They did it all in the name of "public safety".

It is, and I work on it here. But, I worked on it abroad. We had to review constantly all the metrics by country. It's much worse. Almost no one is starving in the US today. There is a very big difference between "low income" in developed countries versus developing nations. Most low income families here in the US have the standard of living of many middle class people in some countries.

In Bangladesh, where I worked on nutrition, 50% of children are stunted from malnutrition, meaning they are undersized. India it's 30%. Africa, which gets highlighted more for some reason, is less but still shockingly high such as 20% in many locations.

People in these places are living off $1-2 a day, barely having staples to survive, etc.

That doesn't mean that we shouldn't address poverty in developed countries, or opportunities for such people. We should.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: musicismagic

Oh, poverty in the US is pretty bad. It would be tons worse if the government stopped propping so many up, but there are tent cities all up and down the west coast, and you never used to see as many homeless even in this area of the country as you do now.

We're likely living through Depression Era conditions and just aren't truly aware of it.

a reply to: musicismagic

The rise of homeless camps (tent cities) has come with a leftist tolerance for the practice which is euphemistically called "urban camping" to make it sound like other than it is.

originally posted by: Madviking
America absolutely had lockdowns in many locations

No we didn't. Not even one. And yes I listened to the Malone podcast. He's butthurt that he's not getting any credit for these vaccines. Saying he invented mRNA vaccines is like saying that Alexander Graham Bell invented the iPhone 12.

originally posted by: LordAhriman

originally posted by: putnam6

I didn't. Cool joke.

Any study that says you can catch and spread a virus while you're at home, by yourself, is wrong.

Reading is fundamental it says deaths, try and keep up you are smarter than that.

Mortality means deaths in a creepy Joe Biden whisper

a reply to: musicismagic
Interesting. To your point though, like Japan in US the federal poverty line is similar. But that's middle class in some developing countries. Countries such as Japan and Singapore, or Korea, are developed 1st world nations.

But south and southeast Asia do have deep poverty.

However, the economic and social impacts of covid in developed countries, from loss of employment and businesses to retarded education for kids and mental health impacts, is still gigantic. I think we will be dealing with the repercussions of those impacts for a decade, assuming they drop the policies soon.

originally posted by: LordAhriman

originally posted by: Madviking
America absolutely had lockdowns in many locations

No we didn't. Not even one. And yes I listened to the Malone podcast. He's butthurt that he's not getting any credit for these vaccines. Saying he invented mRNA vaccines is like saying that Alexander Graham Bell invented the iPhone 12.

WTF are you rambling about my friend? Are you okay...

I assume you mean complete and total lockdowns as nobody does anything right?

Who mentioned the Malone podcast? how about a link though I don't see the relevance to this thread?

here's a list of states that issued stay at home orders and the official name of said orders

ballotpedia.org...(COVID-19)_pandemic,_2020#States_that_ issued_orders

originally posted by: LordAhriman

originally posted by: Madviking
America absolutely had lockdowns in many locations

No we didn't. Not even one. And yes I listened to the Malone podcast. He's butthurt that he's not getting any credit for these vaccines. Saying he invented mRNA vaccines is like saying that Alexander Graham Bell invented the iPhone 12.

You are simply being dishonest about there being no lockdowns in the US. You aren't going to win an argument through abject falsehood. NYC had lockdowns, SF had lockdowns. Here in PA we had an initial 2 month lockdown, then a three week one winter 2020/21.

I note you haven't rebutted a single argument of Malone's about the vaccines and alternative treatments. Projecting "butthurt" on to him without evidence is a logical fallacy.

a reply to: putnam6

With 53 total deaths.

Maybe the freaking out is over nothing.

originally posted by: LordAhriman

originally posted by: Madviking
America absolutely had lockdowns in many locations

No we didn't. Not even one. And yes I listened to the Malone podcast. He's butthurt that he's not getting any credit for these vaccines. Saying he invented mRNA vaccines is like saying that Alexander Graham Bell invented the iPhone 12.

Yep.

I predicted it. No "true lockdown". The lockdowns failed so they weren't really lockdowns.

It's just like it's never really true socialism that fails and no one ever knows what it is.

originally posted by: LordAhriman

originally posted by: putnam6

I didn't. Cool joke.

Any study that says you can catch and spread a virus while you're at home, by yourself, is wrong.

Tell that to NYCHA residents

nycha warned during pandemic of ventilation danger