Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor says a FETUS is the same as a BRAIN-DEAD Person.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Ghostsdogood

9 an hour... what my hubby earned, times 40, times 52....$18,720... take out taxes... probably about 12,000... for a good part of the time my kids were kids... 9 an hour was about what he made and my son had asthma when he was young and was often sick so I couldn't be dependable at work so I didn't work.. eventually, he earned more and we did better when we were both working. But then, I was shelling out alot of my earnings for medical care so I could continue working...

Nobody with children and 18k income has paid ANY federal taxes since the Bush tax cuts, and most at that income level will receive at least 5k per year free from taxpayers, more with multiple kids.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Ghostsdogood
No, irratation.. around 1% of abortions occur at 21 weeks or after while over 90% occur at 13 weeks or less. Meanwhile, the idea that pregnancy can cause permanent, life altering physical damage for some women or death, well that is so rare, we shouldn't have to consider that!!
That people don't agree precisely when viability is shouldnt be used as an excuse to just toss roe out the window.. no one can claim that 90% of the abortions are anywhere near that viability point.
Yes, there are two lives involved..
One has a life, out here in our world. With emotional bonds to family, to children, to friends, bosses, and coworkers. With responsibilities to all of them.
The other, well,
Conception?? Well no one knows of its existence including it. I would call it a him or her but at this point no sex organs are formed and no way really to get a glance of its dna. But, ya, let's keep bringing up all this neat birth control asserting it makes abortions unnecessary while we push to make that the point that should be recognized... we just won't tell them till after that hey, all of your favorite borth control is infringing on the little fertilized eggs right to life and has to go!! I am sorry but if weighing the interest of the women, with all her bonds in the world, all her responsibilities against a fertilized egg... I think her interests wins out.
The 6-7 week point?? Maybe the mother might suspect she is pregnant.. but then maybe not. Women's cycles are fickle. For some they just arent that regular. And even for those who do tend to have regular cycles, they can be easily thrown off. If you get a group of women together on a regular basis, like an office, their cycles will tend to try to sync up. Stress and drugs can throw it off. And I am sure other things will.. so. There is a good chance that at the 7 week point, the women doesn't know they are pregnant... it is the same as the conceived egg... no one probably knows of its existence there is no bonds formed...

The quickening may be felt as early as the 16th week. For me, that was the emotional bond began to take hold with me. It was a real thing, a little babies foot just ran across my stomach. Before then, ya, it was there. I knew it was there, but feeling the movement made it so much more real... so, I am gonna say that maybe by 15 weeks there are emotional bonds and that changes the dynamics alot, at least in my view. It is somebody, in my mind it was developing a personality although that personality may have been just a figment of my imagination. My oldest son was close to 10 months before he was born. The dr had asked me if I wanted to induce and in reply I asked him if there was a danger in just waiting.. there wasn't, he was healthy I was ok... so no, I just knew he wasn't ready, he wanted more time, he would let us know when he was ready. Well he let me know with one good kick that broke him out of his protective sack. Whenever that bond if formed between the mother and the fetus is when the fetus becomes a baby.. but that is just my opinion and I fully realize that in some women... that bond may never form. Is a conceived egg alive, yes... but I don't think it is a person. It just is...no one bonded to it, it not bonded to anyone, no emotion, no ties, just a sleeping egg not able to wake up yet and think I am!!

So why the epic democrat meltdown over 1% of abortions?

(assuming your facts are correct, I didn't verify)

Including soto causing rbg to roll over in her grave with her shameful dishonesty from the bench.

rbg was a HUGE stickler for that, and likely would have severely scolded soto right from the bench if she were there.

3rd Trimester is alive, and has brain activity nearly identical to a recently born baby.

This case is ABOUT that 3rd trimester and the latter part of 2nd, where brainwave activity is a little less clear, NOT the 1st where everyone agrees the brain activity is pretty limited.

soto still calls the babies brain dead tissue at that point, even though she KNOWS, in detail, that this is a lie.

Shameful for a supreme, she should be removed.

Do you still support that lie?

Interesting choice of words and conclusion from Sotomayor during the hearing...

Justice Sonia Sotomayor said that tossing out the landmark rulings establishing abortion rights would tarnish the court's reputation and open the floodgates to other challenges to well-settled law.

“Will this institution survive the stench that this creates in the public perception that the Constitution and its reading are just political acts? I don’t see how it is possible," she said, while questioning Mississippi Solicitor General Scott Stewart.

More at: www.nbcnews.com...

So, if the Supreme Court makes any adjustments to the "Roe vs Wade" precedent, doing will damage the court? The court made the ruling...the court can change the ruling. Right?

originally posted by: carewemust
Interesting choice of words and conclusion from Sotomayor during the hearing...

Justice Sonia Sotomayor said that tossing out the landmark rulings establishing abortion rights would tarnish the court's reputation and open the floodgates to other challenges to well-settled law.

“Will this institution survive the stench that this creates in the public perception that the Constitution and its reading are just political acts? I don’t see how it is possible," she said, while questioning Mississippi Solicitor General Scott Stewart.

More at: www.nbcnews.com...

So, if the Supreme Court makes any adjustments to the "Roe vs Wade" precedent, doing will damage the court? The court made the ruling...the court can change the ruling. Right?

She KNEW what she was doing, that exchange also violated supreme norms, and rbg would have thrown an absolute fit if there.

Altering precedent is rarely done, for good reasons, but has happened many times.

Or democrats would still have their black slaves and beer would still be illegal.

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: ketsuko

Little Richard Hutchinson is the property of GOD.

Anybody who kills these unborn children has to answer to their creator....GOD.

Yes. It used to be the job of the righteous men to expedite the meeting for people committing those types of acts. My how we have become pathetic as a society and species.

originally posted by: Ghostsdogood

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Ghostsdogood
No, irratation.. around 1% of abortions occur at 21 weeks or after while over 90% occur at 13 weeks or less. Meanwhile, the idea that pregnancy can cause permanent, life altering physical damage for some women or death, well that is so rare, we shouldn't have to consider that!!
That people don't agree precisely when viability is shouldnt be used as an excuse to just toss roe out the window.. no one can claim that 90% of the abortions are anywhere near that viability point.
Yes, there are two lives involved..
One has a life, out here in our world. With emotional bonds to family, to children, to friends, bosses, and coworkers. With responsibilities to all of them.
The other, well,
Conception?? Well no one knows of its existence including it. I would call it a him or her but at this point no sex organs are formed and no way really to get a glance of its dna. But, ya, let's keep bringing up all this neat birth control asserting it makes abortions unnecessary while we push to make that the point that should be recognized... we just won't tell them till after that hey, all of your favorite borth control is infringing on the little fertilized eggs right to life and has to go!! I am sorry but if weighing the interest of the women, with all her bonds in the world, all her responsibilities against a fertilized egg... I think her interests wins out.
The 6-7 week point?? Maybe the mother might suspect she is pregnant.. but then maybe not. Women's cycles are fickle. For some they just arent that regular. And even for those who do tend to have regular cycles, they can be easily thrown off. If you get a group of women together on a regular basis, like an office, their cycles will tend to try to sync up. Stress and drugs can throw it off. And I am sure other things will.. so. There is a good chance that at the 7 week point, the women doesn't know they are pregnant... it is the same as the conceived egg... no one probably knows of its existence there is no bonds formed...

The quickening may be felt as early as the 16th week. For me, that was the emotional bond began to take hold with me. It was a real thing, a little babies foot just ran across my stomach. Before then, ya, it was there. I knew it was there, but feeling the movement made it so much more real... so, I am gonna say that maybe by 15 weeks there are emotional bonds and that changes the dynamics alot, at least in my view. It is somebody, in my mind it was developing a personality although that personality may have been just a figment of my imagination. My oldest son was close to 10 months before he was born. The dr had asked me if I wanted to induce and in reply I asked him if there was a danger in just waiting.. there wasn't, he was healthy I was ok... so no, I just knew he wasn't ready, he wanted more time, he would let us know when he was ready. Well he let me know with one good kick that broke him out of his protective sack. Whenever that bond if formed between the mother and the fetus is when the fetus becomes a baby.. but that is just my opinion and I fully realize that in some women... that bond may never form. Is a conceived egg alive, yes... but I don't think it is a person. It just is...no one bonded to it, it not bonded to anyone, no emotion, no ties, just a sleeping egg not able to wake up yet and think I am!!

So why the epic democrat meltdown over 1% of abortions?

(assuming your facts are correct, I didn't verify)

Including soto causing rbg to roll over in her grave with her shameful dishonesty from the bench.

rbg was a HUGE stickler for that, and likely would have severely scolded soto right from the bench if she were there.

3rd Trimester is alive, and has brain activity nearly identical to a recently born baby.

This case is ABOUT that 3rd trimester and the latter part of 2nd, where brainwave activity is a little less clear, NOT the 1st where everyone agrees the brain activity is pretty limited.

soto still calls the babies brain dead tissue at that point, even though she KNOWS, in detail, that this is a lie.

Shameful for a supreme, she should be removed.

Do you still support that lie?

It's what happens when intellectual authoritarianism takes the place of science. The "authorities" feel like they can make up whatever nonsense they want, and nobody will question them.

She's testing the degree to which she, the person, will be taken as authority, vs. actual research being taken as the authority on the matter.

The danger of identity politics is that a lot of people will begin to make the wrong choice on that kind of question.

originally posted by: carewemust
Interesting choice of words and conclusion from Sotomayor during the hearing...

Justice Sonia Sotomayor said that tossing out the landmark rulings establishing abortion rights would tarnish the court's reputation and open the floodgates to other challenges to well-settled law.

“Will this institution survive the stench that this creates in the public perception that the Constitution and its reading are just political acts? I don’t see how it is possible," she said, while questioning Mississippi Solicitor General Scott Stewart.

More at: www.nbcnews.com...

So, if the Supreme Court makes any adjustments to the "Roe vs Wade" precedent, doing will damage the court? The court made the ruling...the court can change the ruling. Right?

That's why justice Kav listed the other HUGE cases that the court had over ruled itself on years later. Go ahead and argue against plessy etc... claiming that over ruling any previous decision is "bad" or "a stain" is absurd.

It's almost like Sotomayor is arguing for a return to separate but equal... anyone know of she is potentially a raging racist? /sarcasm

originally posted by: bloodymarvelous

originally posted by: Ghostsdogood

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Ghostsdogood
No, irratation.. around 1% of abortions occur at 21 weeks or after while over 90% occur at 13 weeks or less. Meanwhile, the idea that pregnancy can cause permanent, life altering physical damage for some women or death, well that is so rare, we shouldn't have to consider that!!
That people don't agree precisely when viability is shouldnt be used as an excuse to just toss roe out the window.. no one can claim that 90% of the abortions are anywhere near that viability point.
Yes, there are two lives involved..
One has a life, out here in our world. With emotional bonds to family, to children, to friends, bosses, and coworkers. With responsibilities to all of them.
The other, well,
Conception?? Well no one knows of its existence including it. I would call it a him or her but at this point no sex organs are formed and no way really to get a glance of its dna. But, ya, let's keep bringing up all this neat birth control asserting it makes abortions unnecessary while we push to make that the point that should be recognized... we just won't tell them till after that hey, all of your favorite borth control is infringing on the little fertilized eggs right to life and has to go!! I am sorry but if weighing the interest of the women, with all her bonds in the world, all her responsibilities against a fertilized egg... I think her interests wins out.
The 6-7 week point?? Maybe the mother might suspect she is pregnant.. but then maybe not. Women's cycles are fickle. For some they just arent that regular. And even for those who do tend to have regular cycles, they can be easily thrown off. If you get a group of women together on a regular basis, like an office, their cycles will tend to try to sync up. Stress and drugs can throw it off. And I am sure other things will.. so. There is a good chance that at the 7 week point, the women doesn't know they are pregnant... it is the same as the conceived egg... no one probably knows of its existence there is no bonds formed...

The quickening may be felt as early as the 16th week. For me, that was the emotional bond began to take hold with me. It was a real thing, a little babies foot just ran across my stomach. Before then, ya, it was there. I knew it was there, but feeling the movement made it so much more real... so, I am gonna say that maybe by 15 weeks there are emotional bonds and that changes the dynamics alot, at least in my view. It is somebody, in my mind it was developing a personality although that personality may have been just a figment of my imagination. My oldest son was close to 10 months before he was born. The dr had asked me if I wanted to induce and in reply I asked him if there was a danger in just waiting.. there wasn't, he was healthy I was ok... so no, I just knew he wasn't ready, he wanted more time, he would let us know when he was ready. Well he let me know with one good kick that broke him out of his protective sack. Whenever that bond if formed between the mother and the fetus is when the fetus becomes a baby.. but that is just my opinion and I fully realize that in some women... that bond may never form. Is a conceived egg alive, yes... but I don't think it is a person. It just is...no one bonded to it, it not bonded to anyone, no emotion, no ties, just a sleeping egg not able to wake up yet and think I am!!

So why the epic democrat meltdown over 1% of abortions?

(assuming your facts are correct, I didn't verify)

Including soto causing rbg to roll over in her grave with her shameful dishonesty from the bench.

rbg was a HUGE stickler for that, and likely would have severely scolded soto right from the bench if she were there.

3rd Trimester is alive, and has brain activity nearly identical to a recently born baby.

This case is ABOUT that 3rd trimester and the latter part of 2nd, where brainwave activity is a little less clear, NOT the 1st where everyone agrees the brain activity is pretty limited.

soto still calls the babies brain dead tissue at that point, even though she KNOWS, in detail, that this is a lie.

Shameful for a supreme, she should be removed.

Do you still support that lie?

It's what happens when intellectual authoritarianism takes the place of science. The "authorities" feel like they can make up whatever nonsense they want, and nobody will question them.

She's testing the degree to which she, the person, will be taken as authority, vs. actual research being taken as the authority on the matter.

The danger of identity politics is that a lot of people will begin to make the wrong choice on that kind of question.

They have been conditioning us to accept "experts", "doctors", "politicians", "teachers" etc.. as definitive authority on whatever issue they are discussing. This has been going on through the public schools and media for decades. You can see the damage it causes when people blindly follow or become ostracized (think conspiracy nuts or misinformation labels) for having their own opinions and views.

This is not by accident it allows for the consolidation and control of the narrative. It doesn't have huge impacts at first, but give it a few generations.

Before you know it people are willingly giving up rights - you know to feel good about helping whatever causes they were told was super duper important!

It's the beginning of a modern day aristocracy - a global fuedal system. Just gotta zoom out at but when looking at things.

a reply to: carewemust

I wonder if she would have though that way about overturning the settled law concerning slavery and Dred Scott? My goodness would that have created a stench to overturn!

a reply to: Imperator2

She might well be if she believes in CRT. Anyone who does believe in that has to be a racist because the whole underlying principles of CRT are racial in nature and thus need someone to be a racist in order to believe in their veracity.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Imperator2

She might well be if she believes in CRT. Anyone who does believe in that has to be a racist because the whole underlying principles of CRT are racial in nature and thus need someone to be a racist in order to believe in their veracity.

Agreed on the CRT. It is just another form of conditioning of the youth. They know they can only achieve such radical change by changing the youth. They started this process a couple of generations ago, it's just at the point where they are being more bold and open with it now.

a reply to: Ghostsdogood
It seems to me it is the pro-life group having the epic meltdown over the 1%.. using it to get the court to "stay neutral" and allow the states to strip some of the most fundamental right from women giving preferential treatment towards the rights of conceived eggs if that is what they wish.
Right to bodily autonomy.
Right to the health they need to adequately function in their normal lives.
Right to choose the type of healthcare they recieve, and refuse any suggested that think is not in their best interest.
The right to privacy.
Their religious rights.... since well one could pray sincerely to god about what to do about an abortion and believe that god is telling them that the risk to the interests, the obligations to their families is far too great.
Their right to liberty.
Putting the point at conception would mean women's actions, what medications they were allowed to have, how much they drank, or smoked, when their cycle started, was it late... it would put everything under scrutiny. Since, you never know... she might be pregnant!

I am not getting into what Sotomayor said because, like I said, I think what she said is being taken out of context. I have the transcript of the hearing downloaded, you can find it on the supreme courts official website you wish. But, it is 113 pages on my tablets kindle app, I would have to search through it, find it, type the dialog into my cellphone... and you know what... it just ain't worth it when more than likely you are just gonna turn around and call my a liar again!! Something which I have been tempted to call you but have restrained myself trying to be nice and have a decent conversation.
Even if it wasn't misrepresented, I don't see where it is worse than what barrett' said or less truthful. If ny memory is serving me right she said that to refute the idea that because their are brain waves and a reaction to stimuli, we should consider the fetus alive and a person... she just pointed out that someone could be braindead and have low functioning brain functions and react to some stimuli. So, let me ask you this... you have a fetus that has severe brain abnormalities where the same portion of the brain is deformed or maybe not even there. It has low functioning brain waves, it will respond to some types of brain waves... if it wasn't for the mother providing life support for it, it would die... so, it is born... should the dr now consider it brain dead and let it pass on, or should he replace the mother's life support system with medical technology? Having brain activity and response to stimuli seems to be more off the mark that the viability concept!
Now let's look at barrett's it's okay to let roe go, we aren't forcing anyone to become mothers since we now have all these safe haven laws... an adopted kid may have a great amount of love for their adoptive parents, but I think most do spend time wondering about their birth mothers when they become aware that they are adoptive. They spend time wondering about them, may choose to try to find them, and if they may have a genetic disease, need an organ donation... may have a need to find their birthmothers... if adopted kids have the intelligence to know they have another mother out there somewhere barrett dang sure knows!! Motherhood starts at conception, ya, once born, the most of the burden of motherhood can be alleviated.. but, she is still a mother!
Reckon how many cheering on the pro-life crowd is also part of the anti vax, anti mask crowd? How dare this lady completely dismiss the nine months of pregnancy like that while half of this country is screaming about their bodily autonomy being infringed on over having to wear a mask for five or ten minutes while they get their morning coffee or big mac!! Heck people have beaten and shot and killed people over that bloody mask!!

It's your turn now to call me a liar!!

a reply to: dawnstar

How many have been forced to become pregnant?

Link

Redneck claimed life doesn't begin.. it just continues on and on.. the egg is alive, the sperm is alive, together, they form a baby...
Childbearing women are kept from jobs that expose them from chemicals that might harm egg or fetus..
There is a list of chemicals and drugs they shouldn't be taking if there is a chance of them getting pregnant... they have done alot of research as to how a women's environment and behavior might affect the health and wellbeing of future offspring...
And, now they are turning their attention to men's contribution, their actions, their drugs, their occupations...
Just in case you men think this isn't gonna infringe on your rights.

a reply to: ketsuko

Why bother answering you... you will just tell me they aren't enough worth your consideration...
While you harp about babies being aborted days before their birth or being mistaken for being not yet viable babies...

How many women are choosing to get pregnant seriously thinking that they could possibly end up being jailed because state prosecutors wanted to believe they deliberately fell down the stairs to cause a miscarriage, or that the miscarriage was caused by a drug she may have took and not the umbilical cord that was wrapped around it's neck. How many are thinking, hey, if I happen to miscarry, the doctors might do nothing about it till I am septic and close to dying?
How many are wondering, is this the month my birth control is gonna fail. How many men would become miserable aholes if their wives decided one day she had enough children and wasn't gonna have sex anymore?

To me, what she was implying was that since we now have safe haven laws... and mothers can abandon the babies after they have them, they aren't forcing motherhood onto anyone.

I did not read all of the comments. I was a paramedic in the ER. We had a pregnant woman who was in a MVC come in close to death. I personally performed chest compressions for 30 minutes trying to save her life and the unborn baby. She was 22 weeks pregnant. She did not make it. Upon calling her death, we immediately performed an emergency c-section and removed the baby. A NICU nurse intubated the baby and she was transported upstairs to NICU. The baby survived and would be 24 years old now. The father/husband arrived about 10minutes after the baby was transported to NICU and was informed of the death of his wife and he assumed the baby as well. That was a new person that I helped deliver at 22 weeks and so even though I am still pro choice, I am pro choice only to at most 10 weeks gestation which gives a couple nearly 2 months to make that decision.

a reply to: marg6043

The Abrahamic religions do believe in the breath of life, so you would be correct according to actual devotees.

a reply to: dawnstar

It's amazing that It's seen as a reasonable solution.

Why abort a baby prior to coming into the world, when you can give them to the government to raise?

God Bless the modern conservative viewpoint.

a reply to: bloodymarvelous

Yes.

Exactly what she was doing.

Shameful behavior from a supreme.

a reply to: dawnstar

Maybe because everything you've posted on the subject has been democrat party propaganda lies, and most folks here aren't brainwashed to even consider such nonsensical reasons for killing babies that are inconvenient to someone?

Could that be the reason?