Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor says a FETUS is the same as a BRAIN-DEAD Person.

originally posted by: marg6043
a reply to: TheRedneck

It is sad that this topic can not be elaborated better due to the obvious agendas of some behind the anti abortion pushing.

Sometimes I wonder about why the intend of this push is all about, and clearly is all about legislation on women bodies and their rights to reproduction, legislation of the uterus is what I call it, we maybe humans but we all have different views and opinions, I be darn if somebody will try to change what I deep in my hart believe.

Is more than just opinions is also life experiences of spiritual connections.

If you are an adult, you know how biology works.
97 to 99 % of those seeking abortions know how biology work.
Your opinion or my opinion is not needed.
If you (mother or father) AGREED to have sex, knowing that sex is the act of procreation and choose later to kill an innocent human, it is Murder.
Again, not opinion.
Simple fact of life.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: DBCowboy

Humanity is also more than just not dying. Humanity is causing as little pain as possible. That is what I want: as little pain as possible.

Either extreme is painful to one group. Unlimited abortions causes pain to the unborn; prohibiting abortions causes pain to the mothers and still doesn't stop abortions. Maybe if we outlawed back alleys and coat hangers?

TheRedneck

Ummm…maybe…if people just stopped practicing the act that results in pregnancy…you know…procreation…for recreation…when they’re ovulating…then this might not be such an issue…

But lowlife humans gotta get them some…and to hell…or to the fetal tissue mountain…with the consequences…

This entire discussion is primarily centered around one thing…convenience…and lack of consideration for consequence…

In other words…basic responsibilities…overt lack…

So…rather than be responsible for the outcome…just do the thing during the ovulation period…cause…my body…my choice…

There is no greater hubris…or selfishness that exists in the human sphere…then to exchange a viable fetus for a few minutes of endorphin high…and for convenience sake…











YouSir

What we should do is have some doctors put together a reversible sterilization.

Like, for example, maybe instead of a normal vasectomy, instead of snipping the tube that carries your little guys, they install a valve. Maybe make the valve a bluetooth device, so you have to connect to it using your cell phone, and type in a code and then it opens up for about an hour. The rest of the time you are shooting blanks.

If I had a teenage boy, I would definitely have them install one on him.

I don't know about making them for girls, though. I've been told that snipping the tubes that lead to the eggs is a bit more dangerous, and harder to undo.

a reply to: carewemust

People have been fighting over my grandfathers estate since the 80's

My Aunt that inherited it wanted to give it to me, a few years ago since I help rest her mom's troubled spirit to move on, years of at home hospice. I said your son and his new wife just had a baby, it would make more sense to give it to him and called her a saint for taking care of her mother when no one else really wanted too or kept fighting as if they didn't have homes or estates or families of their own already.

a reply to: Quadrivium

This subject tends to bring out disagreements quite often between those who normally agree. I normally am in full agreement with Marg... but not on this issue. I'm actually more in agreement with you, personally. I consider every life precious.

I simply also acknowledge that it is better to save a thousand lives than it is to lose 2 thousand lives arguing over which of them should be lost.

You gave several facts... let me add one more. At one time, abortion was generally illegal. Yet, abortions still happened, and in quite a few cases included losing the life of both mother and child due to botched attempts at illegal abortions. That is not what I consider a good outcome. I do not wish to return to the days when that was a regular outcome.

In the end, abortion is a medical procedure that should be between a woman and her doctor. It is the taking of a human life, it can have long-term effects, and it is never completely safe... no medical procedure ever is. The problem I see is that the decision is not between a woman and her doctor, even where abortion is legal... it is between a woman, her doctor, and the tons of propaganda that some in our society spread which is designed to encourage abortion. We have both seen people in this very thread who make no secret of the fact that they celebrate abortion! They literally celebrate the ending of an innocent life!

And let me point out that I am calling no names. I also don't remember calling out your post as an example of either extreme... not sure why you took it that way.

Anyway, my point is that we cannot successfully stop the constant interference in the patient-doctor relationship... every American has the inherent right to speak out on issues that they feel strongly about. So, faced with an impossible task to bring abortion back into the clinic where it belongs, I propose the next best alternative... a balance of rights similar to what what the Supreme Court tried with Roe v Wade. However, I believe that Roe v Wade is insufficient; what we need is something that prevents ANYONE from interfering in that patient-client relationship, in any way, yet ensures that a woman still has the ability to hear and understand both views.

I have friends who will sometimes get angry with me because I will not speak out strongly about the Alabama law... it's about as restrictive as MS. I won't speak out against it because I am certain it is not intended to be enforced. It is a reaction to the continual injection of pro-abortion (not pro-choice) propaganda into the issue. It was designed for one reason: to challenge Roe v Wade and reset the board, hopefully to a more level position. TX and MS just beat us to the bench.

In short, Roe v Wade must be struck down... not because I think we can actually outlaw abortion, not even because I want to outlaw abortion, but because it has been abused and twisted by pro-abortion advocates into a pro-abortion platform. That's the issue at stake IMO.

TheRedneck

a reply to: YouSir

There is no greater hubris…or selfishness that exists in the human sphere…then to exchange a viable fetus for a few minutes of endorphin high…and for convenience sake…

You just had to go there, didn't you? Just had to get me even more hated on this subject...

OK, what the heck...

I have heard many theories on what separates us from animals. We know that humans are somehow superior to lower animals, but the question of why that is, is the subject of many disagreements. I have heard it is because of our superior intellect... bull hockey. The only reason we aren't being visited by extraterrestrials is that they likely saw us and quarantined the whole solar system! ET visiting us would be akin to us visiting a fruit fly exhibit.

Some say it's the opposable thumb... nope, some primates have that.

Some say it's the ability to use tools... again, nope. Other species use tools.

Some say it's language... but oops! Turns out dolphins apparently have their own language.

I say it's our ability to control our natural impulses. We have this innate (yet often unused) ability to decide, yes, I'm horny, but I choose to not follow that impulse at this time. We can say yes, I like her, she likes me, we're both in the mood, but maybe right now isn't the best time. However, we seem to be losing that ability as a species, which, if my position is correct, means that we are turning ourselves from human into animals. The more we progress (regress?) on that track, the more adamant we become about abortion being this inherent right to murder a child because it's not really a child.

Boy, oh boy, did I just open up a firestorm of flaming feces or what? Your fault, YouSir... you brought it up.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

I remember when spiritual ascension was a big deal. Becoming something more than a physical being. But, now, it seems we are more obsessed with our genitalia, and how to get off more than ever. The only way to be truly free is to be obsessed and enslaved with the need to get off?

It’s like somebody in power is keeping humanity stupid with encouraging abuse of drugs, alcohol, and sex…..

a reply to: carewemust

Marg is forcing her desire that babies can be aborted at any stage, to the projected perception that a phase of life which does nothing other than to define where that life is situated, somehow qualifies as 'non-life', or 'brain death'. Is the baby not alive while it is in the womb? Of course it is. So the projection of the desire to kill, in consideration of an arbitrary matter regarding where the baby happens to be located (inside or outside the womb), is nothing short of a desire to murder living, conscious babies at will, and it is therefore a repugnant view, almost as repugnant as the abysmal lack of ethical capacity being demonstrated by the SCOTUS in question.

In my personal view the SCOTUS herself is an aberration, who should be disbarred immediately, compelled to undergo psychiatric testing to ascertain why she has the psychopathic perspective that life is only arbitrarily to be defined as life based upon whims in accord with the convenience of whomever desires to rid themselves of the life which is living, conscious, capable of reacting to stimuli, capable of suffering pain, capable of experiencing comfort & joy - all of which we know to be scientifically evidenced based on previous studies of babies as they develop in the womb.

ANYONE who holds to the aberrant view that a baby developing in the womb is nothing but an inconvenience to be dispatched at will is aberrant in their ethical judgment, and one day, society will recognise that abortion at any time from roughly 6-12 weeks on is nothing other than the painful murder of a living child who should be permitted the opportunity to be born, to live, move & have their being in the cosmos which is to be their home. Prior to 6-12 weeks abortion can be effected painlessly, and could be considered an unfortunate yet permissible compassionate euthanasia arranged for the wellbeing of the person who was careless enough to take on the burden of a life they were ill-prepared to accommodate, and in my view a mandatory period of therapy should be administered post-abortion, both to ensure the woman is not psychologically harmed by the experience, but also to weigh upon her heavily with the counsel to not be so bloody stupid & careless again in the future, because there is a very real death on their hands as a direct result of that careless action.

In spiritual terms, the suggestion outlined above could be considered in the same way that divorce is permissible - because of our foolishness & hard-heartedness, it is necessary, but it is a serious matter which will weigh heavy on the soul, and it is only permitted out of pragmatic necessity for the wellbeing of individuals & society as a whole.

The soul of a child is present instantly on the moment of conception - has nobody heard of the fact, documented scientifically, that at the moment of the unification of the sperm & the egg cell, photons of light are emitted? Is it not obvious that this miraculous event is a visible sign to us all, as a scientifically mature civilisation, that the 'spark of life, the spirit' is instantly afforded by God when conception is successful? The soul of the child is present at the moment of conception, so any child that is aborted in the womb would immediately either return to God, in terms of a reincarnation/heavenly repose type situation, or, more likely, will be immediately 'reallocated' to another couple who at that same moment are also conceiving a baby. This situation could in fact be an explanation, psychologically speaking, for all those souls who feel out of place their whole lives, as though they 'don't quite belong', or were born 'into the wrong family'... I believe this might be the case, having given it some thought. It seems a reasonable explanation & ties things together neatly. Children who were supposed to be born into a particular situation, a particular family, were at the moment of abortion 'diverted to another track', born into circumstances which are not perfect, from a soul destiny perspective. These sorts might more easily go off the rails as young people, if they feel disaffected in their circumstances, for some unknowable reason, they just never quite fit with the life they were born into. As one such individual myself, a soul out of time & space, I can buy into the concept I'm discussing, it seems a reasonable explanation to me. Certainly more reasonable than the 'you are a special starseed indigo child', which smacks of new age deception.

Cheers, FITO.

a reply to: neutronflux

Sorry to disappoint you, humans have always had sex and women have always tried to get rid of unwanted pregnancy. This really isn't new.

Here's an interesting article on the criminalization of abortion. Also stated 1 in 5 women aborted a baby in the 1800s. It was usually done up until the time a baby moved. I've included another article that included the church did not believe a fetus had a soul until birth.

History

Origins

a reply to: frogs453

Not what I am saying at all. Getting off is a small part of life. Hence..

It’s like somebody in power is keeping humanity stupid with encouraging abuse of drugs, alcohol, and sex…..

In this context…

remember when spiritual ascension was a big deal. Becoming something more than a physical being. But, now, it seems we are more obsessed with our genitalia, and how to get off more than ever. The only way to be truly free is to be obsessed and enslaved with the need to get off?

I have a beautiful kid that I love as much as possible with no selfish need from my kid as humanly possible, and willing to sacrifice for.

So much more spiritually healthy than the momentary physical act that created my child.

With many more aspects of life more important than sex, and shouldn’t be tainted with self serving lust.

a reply to: frogs453

And there are much more human and less barbaric means of birth control for a species that is supposedly becoming more enlightened than the pigs rutting in the mud.

a reply to: neutronflux

And maybe if we made those other forms of birth control readily and universally available you would have a point.

The truth is that someone in the upper class is something like five times more likely to terminate a pregnancy than someone that is lower class. However, the lower class amounts for about 49% of all abortions.

How is it that the lower class, who only terminates about 8% of their pregnancies, are able to account for nearly 50% of all abortions?

Because they're getting pregnant way more often. And why are they getting more often? Because they have less access to both control options.

Knowing this information you'd think those that are opposed to abortion would push for greater access to birth control in lower income areas. Instead these people consistently push for laws that makes it harder for people in lower income areas to receive birth control.

For example, there's the push to defund Planned Parenthood. Planned Parenthood serves an important role in many lower income areas by providing family planning services, ie prescribing and dispensing birth control. Not to mention your general reproductive health check-ups that might let a woman know she's pregnant in those first six to 12 weeks.

So what happens if Planned Parenthood is defunded? Will it curb the amount of abortions they provide? Maybe slightly, but most abortions are paid for out of pocket. Instead it means that those lower income women who rely on Planned Parenthood for their birth control will no longer be able to receive it because Planned Parenthood will no longer be able to accept Medicaid as a form of insurance.

So if you want to start curtailing access to abortions with developments in and access to birth control as a reason, maybe you should make sure there's actually a framework that allows these forms BC to equally accessible across the whole economic spectrum and stop trying to make them less accessible to those people that account for most abortions.

a reply to: neutronflux

It’s like somebody in power is keeping humanity stupid with encouraging abuse of drugs, alcohol, and sex…..

You noticed that, too?



TheRedneck

a reply to: neutronflux

By what guttmacher says, abortions have dropped by 29.9% from 1998 to 2016. Doesn't that kind of fly in the face of this, oh we are turning into animals that can't control ourselves.
I would tend to argue we were more animalistic in years gone by than now.
The stat I just provided is probably not as accurate as one would like. It was based on incomplete data with an estimate added in to account for missing data since not all abortions are reported. But we do have an idea.
Do we have any idea just how many illegal abortions occurred pre roe? By what i am reading the estimates range from 200,000 to 1.2 million...
Let's go back further, to Victoria england.. in London, people were afraid to pick up bundles that could be found while walking down the street.. it might be another murdered baby... pulling dead babies out of the river occurred often, and, we all know how the poor adults and children were treated in the workhouses and have heard about the mass graves of children and babies. Does that sound like they were valuing life any more than we are?

I know I am probably gonna get blasted for this but if I have something that is one of a kind, a rare item... I am gonna value it much more than the possession that I can easily replace, have alot at my disposal. And, if they get too numerous, and are taking up too much space, some of them might lose all their value and get tossed out to the garbage bin...
How much value do you think society will see in that disabled kid when there are multiple institutions filled with kids like him who will never have the ability of a five year old stressing out the govt budget? How many orphans and abandoned children will society be willing to bare... how much value will society place on them then?? One mother can find it in her heart to love one, two, maybe more children she brought into the world with special needs and be willing to devout her life to giving them the best that life offers them...
How many is society willing to do the same for?
Or, will society decide that maybe life isn't as sacred as we claimed?

a reply to: Xcalibur254

And maybe if we made those other forms of birth control readily and universally available you would have a point.

I'm sorry... but where is this place where birth control is not available?

I walk into any drug store and there are condoms right there, in the open, at pretty low prices. All one has to do is pick up a box and check out. It used to be you had to get up the nerve to ask for them from the pharmacist... sorta like "Hey, dude I don't know, can I please have sex?" That sucked (big time!) but we still did it. Now you don't even have to ask anymore, just grab a box.

I was able to get my daughter on birth control as a teenager... and at the time I was literally indigent! As in, no money. As in, write a check when the guy comes by to cut off the power, beg a friend for a loan, and race to the bank to try and catch the check before it bounced. That kind of indigent.

Again, and I cannot believe I am repeating this so much, I live in Ala-freakin'-bama! Is the rest of the country so much worse off that they don't have widely available birth control and help for the poor? What are you people doing with all that wealth you have?

I used to think we were behind the times, that we could do better... but this thread is convincing me that we are the ones right on course.

TheRedneck

An intellectually honest argument would be that you know life begins at conception and abortion is taking a life but you feel guilty and want to justify your acts. You don’t want to be honest and you feel guilty as most non physcopaths do so you try to convince yourself that it wasn’t a real life you took and you feel so bad that you not only want to believe you didn’t kill a baby you want others to believe it as well. It’s murder and a desperate act by emotionally compromised individuals. Abortions should come with sterilization. And males or females that don’t financially support their children should be sterilized.

Wear a condom, take a pill or abstain if you don’t want children and if you don’t you are permanently fixed. Problem solved for everyone. Doctors should face a death penalty.they 100% know what they did and are not in emotionally compromised positions. They are hired killers.

You killed a baby.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

Absolute nonsense.

Have you ever even met an actual American?

Most birth control options are 100% free to roughly 45% of our population.

Completely laughable people in this thread speaking straight from their marxist talking points, without once stopping to consider whether those talking points (lies) even remotely match reality.

a reply to: Ghostsdogood

More than a third of female voters have struggled to afford prescription birth control at some point in their lives, and as a result, used birth control inconsistently.This isn’t surprising considering co-pays for birth control pills typically range between $15 and $50 per month.  That adds up to over $600 per year.  Other methods, such as IUDs, can cost several hundred dollars, even with health insurance.

planned parenthood

I know that both of my daughters have had their insurance(2 different companies) suddenly decide not to cover the cost of a brand they had been on. So it was either a choice of changing, going through 3 months of side effects to see if their body accepted that kind, if not try another, and go through the 3 month trial again or pay out of pocket.

Do you have much experience in dealing with birth control? It can be an awful process finding one that doesn't have too many side effects, and is covered by your insurance Co.

a reply to: iwanttobelieve70

Doctors should face a death penalty.they 100% know what they did and are not in emotionally compromised positions. They are hired killers.

This is one of those extreme positions I mentioned earlier.

There are many ways a pregnancy can go awry, and not just a few of those are literally a death sentence to the mother if not attended to. In some cases, sadly, that means an abortion. Is it not better, especially if the child has little chance of surviving thee birth, to try and save the mother? Or is it somehow better to allow both to likely die?

I believe a child is a unique and special life just as much as you do... but if we do not face facts on this issue, we have accomplished nothing... except made things worse.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Ghostsdogood

Hey, let the man speak!

This is the first time I can remember that other states are actually saying how much lousier they are than Alabama. Let me have these few minutes of glory?

TheRedneck