Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor says a FETUS is the same as a BRAIN-DEAD Person.

a reply to: dawnstar


If you are referring to hud's nearly free housing program, there is always a long waiting list for that one.

None of the other major benefits have a limit on the number of participants, so never any kind of waiting list.

That is nationwide.

HUD is different of course, because they need to have an actual housing unit available for each participant and getting one of the nearly free housing units is treated like winning the lottery in poorer ares, so the average length of stay is nearing 20 years in many areas, which is not what the program was intended, or designed, to do.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Outlawing abortion will never end abortion, outlawing murder surely hasn't eliminated murder

Poor comparison. Getting pregnant is not the same as intentionally killing another human. Having an abortion would be the killing of another human, but in cases where the child is malformed or the mother's life is in danger, it would be closer to a DNR order in a hospital or self-defense.

And, in the case of a very early abortion, it would be akin to pulling the plug on someone who is brain dead. Just like Sotomayor said, although I understood her comment to include all unborn until they exit the birth canal.

There's no perfect answer here. Wisdom is accepting that fact.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Ghostsdogood

But, wouldn't opening up abortion laws to strictly states rights just increase the incoherent mish mash of laws we have? Wouldn't make what redneck see m.j s to be complaining about even worse? I mean the first thing I plan on doing when roe goes down is bugging my lawmakers to preserve the abortion rights of this states residents by slapping strict regulations on abortions for out of state residents. Allowing only those that are medically necessary. And while they are at it they can restrict adoptions of babies from out of state to only those who have family connections.
States like texas and mississippi have made their bed and now they can sleep in it... the more well to do along with the poor..

a reply to: dawnstar

My kids are around the same age. We never wanted nor needed housing, but help was available for pre-natal care, the birth itself, food during pregnancy to assure the mother had proper nutrition, food after the pregnancy for the children, clothing on request (not new, but in good shape), even assistance with education costs.

All the programs are there, at least they are in Alabama. We may be the "oddballs" but if so I think perhaps the "non-oddball" states might want to get a little more "oddball" themselves.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Sookiechacha

So, let me get this straight... you want a fetus to fill out the government forms from inside the womb, or you claim the benefits aren't really for them?

O... K... out of respect for Ghostsdogood, I am going to ignore you for the rest of this thread. Good day.

TheRedneck

No. My point is that this SCOTUS case isn't about fetal rights. IF it was about fetal rights then prenatal care would be free to all pregnant women, as well as free health care for infants and children. It isn't.

Alabama is already tied with Texas for having the most stringent Medicaid eligibility guidelines in the country. Non-disabled, non-elderly adults are not eligible at all unless they have minor children. And even then, parents of minor children are only eligible if their income doesn’t exceed 18% of the federal poverty level. For perspective, that’s $329/month in total income for a family of three in 2021. So a single mother earning $500/month and raising two children would not be eligible for Medicaid in Alabama (her kids would be eligible though; eligibility for children extends to households earning up to 146% of the poverty level).

www.healthinsurance.org...

That's about $1,800. per month. So, a lot of kids won't qualify, even under the Children's Eligibility Act.

Wanna get on an affordable housing wait list in Alabama? Good luck! They're all closed.
affordablehousingonline.com...

a reply to: Ghostsdogood

That particular poster actually claims to be in the United States. My question was intended to be sarcasm.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Ghostsdogood
If you can't keep a home, have an address at least in a shelter, you aren't eligible for the rest..

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Ghostsdogood

Actually, it just illustrates how moot the question of "is it a person" becomes when the issue is looked at logically. Just like the question of "when is it alive?" is moot because the answer is it was alive even before conception. "When is it a human?" It has always been human, again, since before conception!

I try to look at it as a question of both entities, the mother and the fetus, have rights. If those rights conflict, who holds the greater right? Who suffers the most pain? I believe in the first trimester, that would be the mother, no question. in the last trimester, that would be the child, no question. So in the second trimester, it becomes a balancing act that depends on circumstances.

TheRedneck

I try to look at it in exactly the same way, plus a few personal moral qualifications, but am not yet able to answer the questions like you have.

Scotus is responsible for the person with rights question right now, just as in rvw.

An impossible question in my mind, i don't envy the position the 8 honest supremes find themselves in.

Regardless of their decision, they are earning their pay this year.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

My point is that this SCOTUS case isn't about fetal rights.

Except the right to live.

And, just to be clear, I live in Alabama. For the last 60 years. You don't, and probably have never even driven through.

Good night.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Except the right to live.

No, sorry. It isn't even about that, as it allows "killing" up to 15 weeks.

a reply to: dawnstar

Yeah, that's a problem. Why not fix it?

Would it take too much energy that could be better used arguing about abortion?

TheRedneck

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Good night, Sookie.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

I remember discussing an alabama law with you at one point. Think I brought up pretty much the same issues with that one. Did that ever get enforced or is it waiting in the wind for roe to be shot down?

originally posted by: iwanttobelieve70

originally posted by: AaarghZombies
a reply to: carewemust

... She isn't completely wrong.

What she's is saying is that a fetus reacts automatically based on instinct baked into it at a biological level, and that it hasn't yet reached a level where it is aware of itself as an independent entity

A person who is brain dead is coming at this from the other side. They react automatically to stimulus like heat or cold but that they aren't aware of what they are experiencing at a conscious level because the part of them which would do this is too badly damaged.

Its like... A computer that boots into the bios before you've installed the OS.

Not my argument, but it is hers. I'm just explaining it.

Personally, I'd look at increasing condom use, and getting people to keep it in their pants. Failing that, use the rear entrance. Or get Netflix

Would you pull the plug on a brain dead person that was guaranteed to get better in 9 months?

Good analogy!

a reply to: TheRedneck

Well I tried to fix it for one mother and her daughter...in a house with 3 bedroom and four adults already living in it... kept her out of the elements for a time at least...
Think I even gave her gas money to get home with...

a reply to: TheRedneck

I think the Constitution might be a suitable frame of reference.

When is it allowable for one individual to infringe upon the rights of another individual?

a reply to: TheRedneck

And, just to be clear, I live in Alabama. For the last 60 years. You don't, and probably have never even driven through.

Don't have to.

US states such as Mississippi, Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Ohio, Indiana, West Virginia, Oklahoma and District of Columbia have the highest mortality rates of at least 7 for every 1,000 live births. The state of Mississippi has the highest infant mortality rate at 8.9 deaths for every 1,000 live births. If the state of Mississippi were a country, it would rank somewhere between Botswana and Bahrain.

www.worldatlas.com...

Alabama has the 3rd highest infant mortality rate in the nation, and 5th highest maternal mortality rates in the nation.

The State bringing the case forward, Mississippi, has the highest infant mortality rate in the USA. So, no this isn't about saving lives. If it was, they'd be legislating differently.
worldpopulationreview.com...
www.cdc.gov...

a reply to: DBCowboy

When you are armed with a gun and they are armed with plastic bag and chasing you through a parking lot?

a reply to: dawnstar

I honestly don't know, dawn. I consider it just something to get in front of the Supreme Court. Seems TX and MS made it first.

TheRedneck

a reply to: dawnstar

I've helped a few people over the years myself.

What I meant, though, was lobbying the government for a better housing solution to fix the problem of not having an address. There are solutions available.

TheRedneck