Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor says a FETUS is the same as a BRAIN-DEAD Person.

a reply to: dawnstar



That is a good one, but you know base on religious freaks the role of the women is been pregnant under husband servitude and barefooted.

I said girls for the single ladies.

if law was about science we wouldn't be struggling over this still, but its a battle of morality vs rights so trying to use facts or science wont ever resolve this issue any time soon.

a reply to: mamabeth

I just got a call,my mom just passed away.

Oh, mamabeth, I am so sorry!

TheRedneck

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: bloodymarvelous

Often times we sacrifice one twin so the other can live.

Seems to me, I ain't the one wanting the easy answer. Most are unwilling to even face the question. It is so much easier to just convince themselves that abortion is just to alleviate women from the hassle of parenthood, to have irresponsible sex with no consequences.. Then ya.. Abortion should be banned, with just a brief sentence, maybe, about saving the live of the mother..

Yeah. I'm starting to think we're on the same page.

Some things should be complicated.

It's hard to tell people my perspective because it undergoes a polar shift at the 21 week mark and so I end up both defending and opposing both sides. But the mother's rights can't ever stop mattering just because there is a new being here that has rights too.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: marg6043

Umm how would that work with married couples who are having sex multiple times a week...
Not sure if it would be dangerous but got a feeling it would be quite expensive.
Stock up on your preferred method of birth control or consider an iud...
Or well, just give your hubby the phone number of the neatest whore house and tell him till the laws changed there is nothing from you.

Good description!!!

I sometimes suspect that's what happened between Donald Trump and Stormy Daniels. Porn stars often work as prostitutes in their spare time.

The wife is pregnant and doesn't feel like sex, so she's just like "Look: you're a wealthy man. Surely there is something you can do."

mamabeth

My hart goes to you and your lost, I just lost my mother in October, is hard very hard, soo sorry.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Isn't that pretty much what we have now, except with more limits on states' rights?

a reply to: TheRedneck

We, you and I and everyone else are nothing but a bunch of cells.

Being human is so much more than just being carbon-based and eating and producing waste.

If we start down the path of denying humanity to the most vulnerable of our species, then what's to stop us from denying it further?

originally posted by: marg6043
a reply to: dawnstar

That is a good one, but you know base on religious freaks the role of the women is been pregnant under husband servitude and barefooted.

I said girls for the single ladies.

Have you met any of those 'religious freaks' here, or just making stuff up again cause truth and logic hurt your feelz.

a reply to: DBCowboy

We have already thru history wars is a good example, on how humans are killed and all in the name of war, thinking, living breathing humans, lets not forget religious war, those have killed even more humans in the name of the lord.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: TheRedneck

We, you and I and everyone else are nothing but a bunch of cells.

Being human is so much more than just being carbon-based and eating and producing waste.

If we start down the path of denying humanity to the most vulnerable of our species, then what's to stop us from denying it further?

World's wisest Cowboy!

originally posted by: marg6043
a reply to: DBCowboy

We have already thru history wars is a good example, on how humans are killed and all in the name of war, thinking, living breathing humans, lets not forget religious war, those have killed even more humans in the name of the lord.

I must be lost.

Is this supposed to be an argument for abortion on demand?

This is the soto/abortion case thread, right?

originally posted by: marg6043
a reply to: DBCowboy

We have already thru history wars is a good example, on how humans are killed and all in the name of war, thinking, living breathing humans, lets not forget religious war, those have killed even more humans in the name of the lord.

It's why I never bring up religion in abortion debates.

I try to stick with science and irrefutable facts.

a reply to: DBCowboy

We have been wiping peop!e out of existence since the dawn of time first with sticks and stones but gradually we built up to where we could annihilate entire cities and leave their land so polluted or the survivors dna so corrupted, even their offspring end up paying a price.
I don't really think abortion is the problem here.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: marg6043
a reply to: DBCowboy

We have already thru history wars is a good example, on how humans are killed and all in the name of war, thinking, living breathing humans, lets not forget religious war, those have killed even more humans in the name of the lord.

It's why I never bring up religion in abortion debates.

I try to stick with science and irrefutable facts.

Me too.

Good policy.

Honest debate on this issue is nearly impossible without that policy imo.

And I really don't care what anyone 'believes', other than out of curiosity.

Makes no difference to me at all.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: DBCowboy

We have been wiping peop!e out of existence since the dawn of time first with sticks and stones but gradually we built up to where we could annihilate entire cities and leave their land so polluted or the survivors dna so corrupted, even their offspring end up paying a price.
I don't really think abortion is the problem here.

I agree.

And also don't believe that past, current, or future wars have anything at all to do with the current abortion problem.

Which is the subject here.

originally posted by: marg6043
I am pro choice and i base my believes in life on actually religion, the soul enters the body at birth to become a full human.

And that is my opinion a fetus do not have consciousness until is born.

Hi Marg.

There are different degrees of consciousness though. The soul would have to take possession of the developing human form by degrees. This would be done unconsciously. Consciousness interferes with deep auto-physical processes that is why consciousness is anaesthetised into an unconscious state during an operation.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

even after they're born, the government doesn't guarantee any newborn or any child health care, food, clothing or shelter.

What country are you in?

The government here certainly does have programs for food (WIC and Food Stamps), health care (Medicaid), clothing (Welfare, several private organizations) and shelter (Low Income Housing). Every one of those programs either expect one to have dependent children, or accelerate the applications of anyone who has dependent children.

And that's in Alabama!

TheRedneck

a reply to: Ghostsdogood

Actually, I think the subject of this thread was resolved a few pages ago.. The context surrounding what Soto said was misrepresented.. So.. Should we let the thread die or go on with our interesting conversations?
My question would be could maybe the failure of men to see the humanity in women throughout a good part of history play a role with what really seems like a uncaring attitude when some are presented with the fact that pregnancy poses dangers to women always have, probably always will so the rights of the fetus can't always trump that of the mother. This isn't the middle ages where we can say well if the mother dies in childbirth so be it...for that was her divine purpose..

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Sookiechacha

even after they're born, the government doesn't guarantee any newborn or any child health care, food, clothing or shelter.

What country are you in?

The government here certainly does have programs for food (WIC and Food Stamps), health care (Medicaid), clothing (Welfare, several private organizations) and shelter (Low Income Housing). Every one of those programs either expect one to have dependent children, or accelerate the applications of anyone who has dependent children.

And that's in Alabama!

TheRedneck

Yes. The government honestly does provide all of those things to children. There is no reason that a child should go without any of those things given how much is available.

When a child doesn't have those things it is because of neglect on the parents part. In which case the state child protection agencies may step in and potentially remove the child to ensure that they do in fact get all of those things.

a reply to: carewemust


I am incredubly proud of my ATS family today.

Many of the same people here, plus quite a few other well known users set out to have a discussion like this only a few short months ago, with absolutely disastrous results.

Even when the hope of civil discourse was the reason for participating in the first place, as kind of an experiment, folks could just not remain rational on this subject, and vicious personal attacks from and at both sides were occurring faster than than anyone could deal with them.

In a 1 hour experiment.

We have been passionately, honestly, fairly, and sometimes heatedly discussing this seemingly impossible topic for 20 hours straight, in a non pit thread, and I don't think our disagreements have resulted in a single mod action.

(Maybe someone can confirm?)

That alone is simply shocking.

In a most excellent way.



Congratulate your ideological opponents today, it took every one of us to make this happen.

A wonderful first step.

For everyone here.






ETA:

And an appreciative hat tip to the mods who gave us a little extra space to work things out on our own, while watching closely in expectation of another disaster of a thread.