Alec Baldwin SHOOTING

a reply to: olaru12
I heard it was also to do with housing, they were told they would be staying in Santa Fe, instead it was further away. I guess after a 12-18 hr day, you want to be a quick drive to go sleep.

originally posted by: vonclod
a reply to: olaru12
I heard it was also to do with housing, they were told they would be staying in Santa Fe, instead it was further away. I guess after a 12-18 hr day, you want to be a quick drive to go sleep.

Very true...I have spent 19 days on that set sleeping in my truck because I was to tired and sleepy to drive home.
Working on a busy set without proper rest is a recipe for disaster. Knowing this is the case for many locations, a lot of us pros have a work trucks with a camper or Van to stay in rather than drive.

I'm a bit confused here. It seems something is amiss... as in no one was actually shot with a "prop gun."

Yeah, i know, I googled "prop gun" looking for something that says what I always understood a "prop gun" to be. I got report after report about being shot with a "prop gun," a few with the explanation that a real gun can be a "prop gun" if used with blanks.

Nope.

A prop gun is a device that looks and acts and usually even feels like a real gun, but it does not have a firing pin and cannot physically fire a round. It's sorta like a child's toy gun, just made more realistic-looking. Seems Wikipedia backs me up!

A prop weapon, such as a gun or sword, looks functional, but lacks the intentional harmfulness of the corresponding real weapon. In the theater, prop weapons are either non-operable replicas or have safety features to ensure they are not dangerous. To make melee weapons into prop weapons, swords have their edges and points dulled, making them less able to stab or cut. Knives are often made of plastic or rubber.

Sometimes real guns (not prop guns) fire prop ammo: caps or noisy blanks. In film production, fully functional weapons (not prop weapons) are mostly used, but typically only with special smoke blanks with blank adapted guns instead of real bullets.

Real cartridges with bullets removed are still dangerously charged which has caused several tragic instances when used on stage or film, a notable example being actor Alec Baldwin firing a gun when filming Rust, killing cinematographer Halyna Hutchins and injuring director Joel Souza on October 21, 2021 in Santa Fe, New Mexico.

The safety and proper handling of real weapons used as movie props is the premiere responsibility of the prop master. ATF and other law enforcement agencies may monitor the use of real guns for film and television, but this is generally not necessary with stage props as these guns are permanently "plugged".

What Baldwin was using was a real gun supposedly equipped with blanks (for obvious reasons). Now, there are two ways to make a blank. The powder charge, which is of course decreased since there is no bullet to push out of the barrel, must still be contained when fired to make the characteristic "BANG!" I have lit gunpowder uncontained before... it just burns fast.

One way to do this is to substitute the bullet with a wadding plug. That will normally slow tremendously once it exits the barrel due to air resistance, but as someone mentioned earlier, it can still do damage at point-blank range. The other, normally used method is to crimp the end of the shell closed. When the primer ignites the gunpowder, the crimped end will open under the pressure, creating a most satisfying "BANG!" and even, depending on the load, let loose a little fire out the end of the barrel... just like a real bullet.

The trick is in the crimping... too loose and the result will be somewhat dull, just a slight pop and a quick burn. Too tight, and one can literally cause the gun to explode. Only an expert should ever load a blank; they can be quite dangerous if not properly crimped.

What I think probably happened is that Baldwin fired off a blank round that had been reused (one should never, ever reuse brass after it has been crimped and fired once) or that was bent too far when it was crimped. Either reason would have left stress cracks in the brass, and those could easily cause pieces of the brass itself to rip loose when fired. That also explains why two people were hit; there could have been multiple small pieces of metallic casing coming out the barrel.

I have to add that Baldwin is an avowed supporter of gun control, and my experience is that such people are generally unaware of how a gun works and proper safety protocols. He likely had no idea that what the weapon was capable of.

Which just reinforces my opinion that the US gun problem is really an education problem.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: dollukka

Sad News Alec Baldwin accidentally shot cinematographer Halyna Hutchins with prop gun on movie set.

LAtimes

Will Alec Balwin attend Halyna Hutchins's funeral (without a disguise)?

No idea what happened here, was it a live round, and hit 2 people?, that sounds plausible to me, unforgivable though. As far as I know, most guns used to fire anything, more often than not are real firearms. I know they have prop guns that are non functioning as well. I would be surprised if it was just a little piece of brass from a blank, that did as much damage.

a reply to: vonclod

I've seen blog posts wondering just exactly how he hit a cinematographer. That's the camera person. The only excuse to be pointing a gun at such a person would be if he were filming a scene that called for him to fire directly at the camera. That's possible.

Because you should never be pointing a gun at anyone unless you intend to shoot them. That's just a basic point of firearms safety, and if you're filming something where it is called for, then there are supposed to be multiple layers of checks to prevent this sort of accident up to and including Baldwin himself checking his own firearm to make sure it was loaded properly with a blank.

Anyhow, this blog post lays out some points to consider about this. They're listed in bullet form, and it's not at all clear yet that Baldwin did anything wrong. As I mentioned, he could have been filming a scene where he fires at the camera and it's a very tragic accident. Otherwise, he exactly did he come to be pointing a gun at and pulling the trigger while pointing in such a way as to possibly injure a member of the crew? You don't horse around with guns.

a reply to: ketsuko

I've seen blog posts wondering just exactly how he hit a cinematographer. That's the camera person. The only excuse to be pointing a gun at such a person would be if he were filming a scene that called for him to fire directly at the camera. That's possible.

Yes, never point it at anyone, loaded or not..outside filming, as per the script.

Too little info to go on, but, it is possible the shot required a direct view.

I will check out the blog.

Here is a LA Times article about it, it says there were two discharges before today, and that Union crew had walked off the set and it was just local crew working.

It also they were shot lining up the camera angle. He drew the weapon once with no problem, and then they did it again and the gun went off.

The actor was preparing to film a scene in which he pulls a gun out of a holster, according to a source close to the production. Crew members had already shouted “cold gun” on the New Mexico set. The filmmaking team was lining up its camera angles and had yet to retreat to the video village, an on-set area where the crew gathers to watch filming from a distance via a monitor.

Instead, the B-camera operator was on a dolly with a monitor, checking out the potential shots. Hutchins was also looking at the monitor from over the operator’s shoulder, as was the movie’s director, Joel Souza, who was crouching just behind her.

Baldwin removed the gun from its holster once without incident, but the second time he repeated the action, ammunition flew toward the trio around the monitor. The projectile whizzed by the camera operator but penetrated Hutchins near her shoulder, then continued through to Souza. Hutchins immediately fell to the ground as crew members applied pressure to her wound in an attempt to stop the bleeding.

Late Friday, the Associated Press reported that Baldwin was handed a loaded weapon by an assistant director who indicated it was safe to use in the moments before the actor fatally shot a cinematographer, according to court records. The assistant director did not know the prop gun was loaded with live rounds, according to a search warrant filed in a Santa Fe County court.

‘Rust’ crew describes on-set gun safety issues and misfires days before fatal shooting

Well the Union Deal wasn't gone into the one above much.

Here is one from USA Today, I know

Crew members reportedly walked off the set of "Rust" in protest of working conditions hours before Hutchins was killed.

According to the Los Angeles Times and Deadline, crew members working on the upcoming Western raised concerns about several problems, including safety issues, prior to Thursday's incident.
The outlets report that, hours before the fatal incident, members of the "Rust" camera crew packed up their gear and walked off the job in protest and, per the LA Times, were replaced with nonunion crew members soon after. The outlets also noted at least two previous misfires on a prop gun on set days before.

In a statement to the LA Times and Deadline, Rust Movie Productions LLC said the “safety of our cast and crew is the top priority of Rust Productions and everyone associated with the company."

What we know about deadly prop gun shooting on 'Rust': Baldwin didn't know gun had live rounds

So no matter what kind of POS Baldwin is, it wasn't his fault.

a reply to: TomCollin

Again, isn't part of the protocol for him to check the rounds himself? I thought there was supposed to be a marked difference between live rounds and blanks for obvious reasons.

originally posted by: TomCollin
Here is a LA Times article about it, it says there were two discharges before today, and that Union crew had walked off the set and it was just local crew working.

It also they were shot lining up the camera angle. He drew the weapon once with no problem, and then they did it again and the gun went off.

The actor was preparing to film a scene in which he pulls a gun out of a holster, according to a source close to the production. Crew members had already shouted “cold gun” on the New Mexico set. The filmmaking team was lining up its camera angles and had yet to retreat to the video village, an on-set area where the crew gathers to watch filming from a distance via a monitor.

Instead, the B-camera operator was on a dolly with a monitor, checking out the potential shots. Hutchins was also looking at the monitor from over the operator’s shoulder, as was the movie’s director, Joel Souza, who was crouching just behind her.

Baldwin removed the gun from its holster once without incident, but the second time he repeated the action, ammunition flew toward the trio around the monitor. The projectile whizzed by the camera operator but penetrated Hutchins near her shoulder, then continued through to Souza. Hutchins immediately fell to the ground as crew members applied pressure to her wound in an attempt to stop the bleeding.

Late Friday, the Associated Press reported that Baldwin was handed a loaded weapon by an assistant director who indicated it was safe to use in the moments before the actor fatally shot a cinematographer, according to court records. The assistant director did not know the prop gun was loaded with live rounds, according to a search warrant filed in a Santa Fe County court.

‘Rust’ crew describes on-set gun safety issues and misfires days before fatal shooting

Well the Union Deal wasn't gone into the one above much.

Here is one from USA Today, I know

Crew members reportedly walked off the set of "Rust" in protest of working conditions hours before Hutchins was killed.

According to the Los Angeles Times and Deadline, crew members working on the upcoming Western raised concerns about several problems, including safety issues, prior to Thursday's incident.
The outlets report that, hours before the fatal incident, members of the "Rust" camera crew packed up their gear and walked off the job in protest and, per the LA Times, were replaced with nonunion crew members soon after. The outlets also noted at least two previous misfires on a prop gun on set days before.

In a statement to the LA Times and Deadline, Rust Movie Productions LLC said the “safety of our cast and crew is the top priority of Rust Productions and everyone associated with the company."

What we know about deadly prop gun shooting on 'Rust': Baldwin didn't know gun had live rounds

So no matter what kind of POS Baldwin is, it wasn't his fault.

Damn!

This was a western? so I guess a single action, if so no safety either.

a reply to: ketsuko

Never heard of any thing like that before, besides I would think depending on actors to check parts of a prop or set before each and every take would be time consuming and time is money, especially in the movie making bidness

I always heard that the prop master and their crew are responsible for the safety of the props.

a reply to: vonclod

Only safety would have been a single action, that being the hammer would have to be pulled back before pulling the trigger.
Prop gun might have been a double action.

a reply to: TomCollin

You would think that actors using firearms would have to have at least some minimal training with them for basic safety. I would think no one wants a repeat of Brandon Lee, but I guess I can see from this I was wrong.

If you're going to shoot the gun, shouldn't you at least check what you're shooting?

originally posted by: TomCollin
a reply to: vonclod

Only safety would have been a single action, that being the hammer would have to be pulled back before pulling the trigger.
Prop gun might have been a double action.

For sure, I guess we'll know soon enough.

a reply to: TomCollin

Late Friday, the Associated Press reported that Baldwin was handed a loaded weapon by an assistant director who indicated it was safe to use in the moments before the actor fatally shot a cinematographer, according to court records. The assistant director did not know the prop gun was loaded with live rounds, according to a search warrant filed in a Santa Fe County court.

Wait, wait, wait... why were they using live rounds on the set in the first place? There shouldn't have been any live ammo on that set, much less loaded in a firable gun being used as a prop.

So no matter what kind of POS Baldwin is, it wasn't his fault.

I beg to differ. Alec Baldwin surely knew the gun could fire rounds; if he didn't, then that was negligence. He apparently did not verify that the gun was safe before drawing it. That is negligence. The gun was pointed at three different people, two of which were injured, one fatally. That is negligence.

Anyone handling a gun is supposed to verify whether it is loaded or not, ensure the safety is on before practicing "dry" moves like a fast draw, and never point it toward another person except to intentionally use it. Hand me a gun and I will check to see if it is loaded the very first thing. The one exception might be if I am immediately intending to use it on a pre-determined target. You will never catch me pointing it in anyone else's direction, period, and I will have the safety on until I am ready to fire it.

I am not fan of Alec Baldwin, but it really doesn't matter who it was holding the gun. This may have been an accident, but it was an easily preventable accident had any safety protocols been used by Baldwin. In that respect, it certainly is his fault. I don't know how that will play out legally, but morally, yes, it is his fault.

I'm starting to see a large part of the problem with those who are anti-gun. Apparently they do not know how to handle a gun safely themselves and therefore think no one else does.

TheRedneck