PROvaxxer's... I need your help.

a reply to: frogs453

In my case, my GP has suggested I do not get the vaccine.

My wife's GP has informed her that, due to a potential interaction with her present medications, the vaccine could be deadly for her.

If either of us contracts a severe case of the Chinese virus beyond our ability to handle on our own, we will contact our doctors and/or a hospital for treatment.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Of course if your doc suggests it is not good for you, then yes, do not get it. It is not for everyone I'm sure due to various health issues.

My question was more for those who's doc recommended it but they chose not to get it.

My reasoning is nothing that could convince anyone else I'm afraid. There is no smoking gun evidence or proof beyond reasonable doubt I can direct you to.

I'm not scared of new technology and that helps, I dislike the whole luddite attitude some people exhibit.

I live in the UK, as we have a nationalised healthcare system there's not the same issues you'd find in a country that only has paid or insurance based medicine. There's no real reason for our healthcare system to support something that will not benefit the people and therefore the system as a whole and I've never been in a position where my treatment has not been good and I'd struggle to find someone from any social or financial position who would disagree if I said I was happy with the system aside from a few issues regarding privatisation and lack of funding.

By the time I had the jab we had already rolled it out to everyone who wanted it over the age of 50, that's many millions of people most of whom will have had preexisting conditions and no one I knew had either had a bad reaction or knew someone who had. The only bad reaction I know of is a work colleague has a neighbour who knows someone who was only 18 and had the vaccine because she chose to do so to work as an actress even though at the time it was not advised by her go due to lack of trials on younger people. She was on the contraceptive pill and had severe asthma and some issues with blood pressure or similar and she actually died of a blood clot. This was before the blood clot issues were known about.

I know people from all walks of life, right wind millionaires all the way to far left anarchists and protesters and nearly all of them are pro vaxination, this is strange as these people will usually be opposed on everything.



a reply to: TheRedneck

originally posted by: HawkEyi
a reply to: flice

"The Benefits Outweigh The Risks"

Not everyone's risks are equal and for many the benefits don't outweigh the risk. Not everyone has the same risk as the elderly and the most vulnerable.

a reply to: frogs453

For the record, I do not always follow my GP's advice unquestionably. He has learned to make his suggestions while prepared to answer a lot of questions. I gave a list of my reasons for not taking the vaccination on the previous page, and none of them mentioned my GP's suggestion.

He has prescribed lisinopril for high blood pressure. My BP was slightly elevated one visit (when my fatigue was very bad) and runs close to textbook (120/80) the rest of the time. I do not take lisinopril, and he knows it. According to him, he only prescribes it to cover his butt should I develop blood pressure issues with my heart condition. I have told him that, should I notice my BP staying elevated, I will take lisinopril per his instructions.

I have a very good rapport with my doctors. They give me advice based on their tests, answer my questions, and then I base my final decision on those answers and my own research/experiences (which I normally run by them). My cardiologist tells me I should quit smoking... but he also acknowledges that my heart issues are with cholesterol, not smoking. So I smoke because it gives me pleasure... I gave up drugs after the 1970s, gave up drinking a little while after that, got married and gave up chasing women... I'm keeping one vice.

Everyone is, IMO, ultimately responsible for their own medical care and medical decisions. The doctors are there to provide expert advice to help them make informed decisions, not to make decisions for them.

TheRedneck

a reply to: nonspecific

OK, so you trust the technology (pretty much implicitly) and have seen no appreciable negative effects. Fair enough.

I wish you well with your decision. My children have both taken the vaccination, and other than my daughter having a very sore arm for a couple days, have had no ill effects. That supports your position.

See? That wasn't hard. I will point out that some of my reasons are based on a distrust of demands that one submit... and that may well be why the US is more reluctant in general to the vaccination than the UK.

TheRedneck

Pretty much, my other half discussed it with our gp and he showed no concerns and my stepson is a scientist involved in an industry close enough to be something of an authority on mRNA vaccines and he said he trusted the science in terms of the delivery method.

I've been away from ATS for a few years but came back to see what the alternative opinion was as a bit of diversity.

I expected a mix of outright crazy and reasonable concern based on elements of fact. I only found the crazy really, there's been nothing said here that's not either exaggeration or outright falsity that's easily proven to be untrue. This also affected my decision albeit in a small manner.


a reply to: TheRedneck

a reply to: nonspecific

To be fair, my concern with new technology seems to stop when it is technology I am working on. Then I tend to trust it too much, lol. I think most people tend to be like that, and it appears you have close ties to the technology used in the vaccine.

I agree that the mRNA theory appears to be sound. I won't personally consider it "proven" for a couple more years, but so far so good. My concern is with the protein they are replicating for the immune response, not so much with the mRNA technology itself. That concern is amplified in my mind by some of the claims versus the results, at least the political results.

I remember years ago when a product was introduced called "Tuf-lon." Tuf-lon was an engine oil treatment, the forerunner of the synthetic oils we use commonly today. It worked great! I tried it, mainly because my car at the time had a pretty decent oil leak and I was concerned about running low on oil. As it turned out, I did run it low on oil several times, with no engine damage. I became a huge fan.

They went out of business. Their big commercial claim was that an engine could run on a crankcase full of water without damage. Well, it could for a short time, but apparently someone tried to prove it over an extended period and their engine rusted from the inside! The ensuing lawsuit drove Tuf-lon out of business. Turns out, Castrol bought the formula and used it in their "Syn-tec" synthetic oil... without the outrageous claims and with great and continual success. The product continues to be profitable to this day.

There's a lesson in there for those who try to use unsubstantiated claims to promote an agenda... telling the truth leads to public acceptance, while outlandish claims lead to public resistance. The continual attempts to force the vaccinations onto everyone, while potentially done with good intentions, are the primary reason so many are looking for a demon in the bottom of that bottle, and do more harm to the cause of widely distributing the vaccine than good.

The same goes for the outlandish claims made against the vaccine... it is not filled with Borg nanoprobes. Those vaccinated will not be assimilated and will not grow Borg implants. Duuuuhhhh...

TheRedneck

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Itisnowagain


Take for instance the molecularly targeted therapies to exploit the particular genetic vulnerabilities of cancer cells which are underdevelopment, or the biotherapeutic approaches which include monoclonal antibodies.

You need to do your homework there if you imagine medical science is not developing new ways to fight cancer Itisnowagain.

Plagiarism is bad Andy,been copying and pasting again have we?
This doesn't make you look smart,quite the opposite in fact.
Saying that it's your M/O,you've been doing it here for years.
Maybe try getting an opinion of your own,it doesn't hurt.


Andy's plagiarism

Check the section called''Discover and develop new therapeutics'',word for word what Andy wrote.tut,tut,tut.

originally posted by: nonspecific
It's insane that some people won't trust their own GP but will put the lives of their entire family in the hands of some random "doctor" on a video that tells them really outlandish things backed up by absolutely no evidence.

It's Darwinism for the year 2021.


a reply to: andy06shake

Did your personal GP actually study Corona and the Vax? Or did he just get a memo on how to react?

EVERYBODY should ask their own GP for medical advice, and yes it is insane to force others to do what you tell them. But to be honest, how many people do you know that does that?? I think most people are just saying, my body, my choise.

Who would have thought that goverments and politicans ALL OVER THE WORLD would be haunted by their own endless lies?
Anybody who automatically trust their "choosen" leaders, are either super naive and brainwashed or what i would call, not so bright.... They are all known liars!!!

Liars are gonna lie, so is it really so insane that people dont trust what they are telling us is the truth?

originally posted by: spicoli457870
which deadly virus are we talking about ? The deadly virus that has no symptoms and even if you are vaccinated you can still get it and pass it to the unvaccinated because herd immunity doesn't exist anymore? ...that one ?

Has "no symptoms"? All those folk on ventilators might strongly disagree with you.

Also, you have no clue what a vaccine actually does.

a reply to: TheRedneck

I use a similar product for my 31 year old Mazda MX-5, or Miata to you lot over the pond.

Reading these threads I tried an experiment. I got a magnet and it stuck to my car!

Must be cos of the engine oil treatment! What has Bill Gates done to my car? The evil swine.

Well, it's no more stupid than some of the stuff I'm reading about vaccines on here.

originally posted by: nonspecific
Pretty much, my other half discussed it with our gp and he showed no concerns and my stepson is a scientist involved in an industry close enough to be something of an authority on mRNA vaccines and he said he trusted the science in terms of the delivery method.

I've been away from ATS for a few years but came back to see what the alternative opinion was as a bit of diversity.

I expected a mix of outright crazy and reasonable concern based on elements of fact. I only found the crazy really, there's been nothing said here that's not either exaggeration or outright falsity that's easily proven to be untrue. This also affected my decision albeit in a small manner.


a reply to: TheRedneck

Great, can you please prove this statement wrong then?
"There could be SERIOUS long term effects of this vaccine, we dont know about yet"

Also, does anybody know anything about the immune system?
Normally when the immune system is done producing antibodies against an infection, it goes back to a healing phase. When you get the vaccine, your body is constantly fighting off the proteins or whatever it is the vax produces, so your body make the antibodies needed to fight off corona, right?
So what i want to know, what happens to ones body when it NEVER (Boosters forever, am i right?) goes back to the healing phase again?

I dont know much about the immune system, so please correct me if iam wrong. Iam asking because i want to learn.

originally posted by: glen200376

Plagiarism is bad Andy,been copying and pasting again have we?
This doesn't make you look smart,quite the opposite in fact.
Saying that it's your M/O,you've been doing it here for years.
Maybe try getting an opinion of your own,it doesn't hurt.


Andy's plagiarism

Check the section called''Discover and develop new therapeutics'',word for word what Andy wrote.tut,tut,tut.

Competition for Shill-Of-The-Week™ has become stiffer lately.
Lot's of players in the game.

They might consider upping their game a tad, if they expect to keep winning stupid prizes...

There can be long term effects of the vaccine we don't yet know about is a true statement, this could be said about anything though at the end of the day.

There would need to be some hard evidence that clearly showed what and how the effects would be for me to be actually concerned to the point of not having the jabs though, the antivaxxers said it would kill millions and that did not happened so they changed that to killed millions within 6 months, it's been 6 months for lots of people now so it's changed to long term and then long term can be years or decades can't it.

There's plenty of things that people do that do have long term effects that people do all the time like smoking or drinking, smoking weed, having a poor diet, taking pain killers....

We know the damage these things do yet people still do them, the benefits outweigh the risks when it suits people.




a reply to: ToLiveIsToDie

originally posted by: nonspecific
There can be long term effects of the vaccine we don't yet know about is a true statement, this could be said about anything though at the end of the day.

There would need to be some hard evidence that clearly showed what and how the effects would be for me to be actually concerned to the point of not having the jabs though, the antivaxxers said it would kill millions and that did not happened so they changed that to killed millions within 6 months, it's been 6 months for lots of people now so it's changed to long term and then long term can be years or decades can't it.

There's plenty of things that people do that do have long term effects that people do all the time like smoking or drinking, smoking weed, having a poor diet, taking pain killers....

We know the damage these things do yet people still do them, the benefits outweigh the risks when it suits people.




a reply to: ToLiveIsToDie

I get what youre saying.
My problem with it, is that we are been told from officals that it is 100% total safe and nothing bad can ever come from it.
It only proves that these people will say and tell you ANYTHING to get you to take that jab, no matter how much of a lie it is - how can i ever trust those people again? I cant...
It is just as bad as those antivaxxers who said millions of people would die within months.
None of these people know what they are talking about, if they do, they are effing liars!

So far, it seems to be going good, and i hope it will continoue to do so.

But those who wants to force this on people, are no different than hitler and his team of sick scientist. They are just hypocrites when they say it is for the good of all people. They dont give a crap when they are told about the millions of kids dying of hunger and war each year - they are just affraid they will get sick themself, thats it! Evil people!

nvm

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Itisnowagain

Thats a pretty easy admission to make Itisnowagain, there cancer treatments do indeed leave a lot to be desired.

But Its not there magic bullet that's of concern but the fact that there never may be one that suits all cancers.

If people can prove there are other ways that actually work then I'm all for it.

Cant have people punting snake oil at all angles through as it would simply be counterproductive to the disease and any cure.

There has to be rules Itisnowagain, especially where people and the offer of hope false or otherwise is concerned.

Interesting that you should mention Snake-Oil™, as that is a larger part of the origin of your beloved Allopathic™, Pill-And-Scalpel™, Modern-Day-Western-Medicine™, and your " Trusted Expert™ " GP™, that mostly anyone could imagine.

At the same time as you learn about that, you can meet those making those rules, that you seem to like so much.

The Corbett Report : How & Why Big Oil Conquered The World.

( Fully transcripted, and all claims sourced, and linked. )

My guess is that a large majority of Medical™ Professionals™ and Experts™ don't have an inkling of a clue about the origins of their field.

But ! They are not-too bad at dealing with trauma, and medical emergencies.

IE : One might change the oil, brakes, filters, and perform all manner of maintenance and small repairs on their own vehicle, but go to the specialist when the tranny is busted, or for any type of complicated major problem.

So much absolutism hereabouts.
Not much is 100% True™, nor 100% false.

Modern-Medicine™ is both amazing and awful.
Folks aren't liars, but folks lie, sometimes.

( This relates to the OP in that the vids discuss the origins of For-Profit-Medicine™, Vax™, and the link they have to PR™ campaigns to brainwash the masses. )

a reply to: vonclod

Well, you deleted you comment. so NVM

I've said in other threads that I don't think the UK is getting the same kind of issues with vaccinations as the US, I can't comment for the rest of the world though.

Over here most people seemed happy to have the jabs if it was deemed safe for them to do so and we've not had very much in the way of coersion or attitude towards uptake.


We also don't have the same level of partisan politics that can get in the way of informed decisions and people's right to choose without harassment on either side.

Aside from large music events and overseas travel there's nothing really that you need a Vax or test for now and it's only nightclubs at present that you need proof of vaxination to gain entry.


a reply to: ToLiveIsToDie