Indications; Covid was present as early as October 2019... China asked data deleted

a reply to: chr0naut

This is China. There is evidence Covid was in China in July/August. There was a huge surge in Wuhan of hospitalizations. China just covered it up, but we have satellite data. Literally everything links back to Wuhan.

a reply to: flice

I walked back the math in one of the early COVID Pandemic threads based on the 14-week incubation window that there was every reason to believe that the disease was actively circulating in China as far back as November or even late October based on how many cases they had showing up in January.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: chr0naut

This is China. There is evidence Covid was in China in July/August. There was a huge surge in Wuhan of hospitalizations. China just covered it up, but we have satellite data. Literally everything links back to Wuhan.

No this doesn't even indicate what the increase in hospitalizations were from.

Perhaps it was a stack of gastric problems from some bad hamburger mince?

But also, the disease being epidemic in July/August would support what I have been saying about the virus having arisen in humans earlier than the currently accepted timeline.

... and it totally destroys the timeline of lab leak from the three researchers who became sick in November.

... Ditto for the Wuhan wet market timeline.

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: flice

Have you considered what these early dates of origin of the pathogen says about the lab leak theory? Demolishes it if the disease was spreading before the experiments were done and before anyone at the lab became sick.

Also what about the Wuhan Market origin theory? Also messes with it's timeline, too.

And now we have research that indicates the virus is strongly human adapted and may not have had a recent zoonotic transfer. In silico comparison of SARS-CoV-2 spike protein-ACE2 binding affinities across species and implications for virus origin

It is starting to look like my 'wild theory' of origin (which is specifically that zoonotic transfer from bats to domestic cats occurred hundreds of years, or more, ago, and then further zoonotic transfer from domestic cats to humans, decades ago, and then in-species adaptation and mutation, in humans, until, in 2018, the pathogenic version arose, and that Wuhan was just the place where it was identified as being epidemic) is more plausible.

I just want to get some clarification here...

You think it is more plausible that:

A coronavirus from bats jumped to cats and then humans over the course of decades

Rather than:

A lab which focuses on coronaviruses, in the area the outbreak occurred, somehow leaked the virus


Just want to be clear.

a reply to: rounda

The way that diseases have arisen for all of previous human history, is more likely than some sort of sci-fi magic, that we really don't currently have the technology to do successfully in the lab.

Even after years of trying to produce an mRNA vaccine (which is way simpler than producing a completely novel working human pathogen, even from a existing viruses in other species), it took a year to get to phase III trials.

Spider-Man allegedly got his powers from being bitten by a radioactive spider. I don't believe that is possible either.

Just to be clear.

originally posted by: rounda

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: flice

Have you considered what these early dates of origin of the pathogen says about the lab leak theory? Demolishes it if the disease was spreading before the experiments were done and before anyone at the lab became sick.

Also what about the Wuhan Market origin theory? Also messes with it's timeline, too.

And now we have research that indicates the virus is strongly human adapted and may not have had a recent zoonotic transfer. In silico comparison of SARS-CoV-2 spike protein-ACE2 binding affinities across species and implications for virus origin

It is starting to look like my 'wild theory' of origin (which is specifically that zoonotic transfer from bats to domestic cats occurred hundreds of years, or more, ago, and then further zoonotic transfer from domestic cats to humans, decades ago, and then in-species adaptation and mutation, in humans, until, in 2018, the pathogenic version arose, and that Wuhan was just the place where it was identified as being epidemic) is more plausible.

I just want to get some clarification here...

You think it is more plausible that:

A coronavirus from bats jumped to cats and then humans over the course of decades

Rather than:

A lab which focuses on coronaviruses, in the area the outbreak occurred, somehow leaked the virus


Just want to be clear.

Almost every large Chinese city has a lab that does research like this at some level or other. Many connected to the government through grants or partial ownership. Coronavirus research is pretty common as it's a pretty common virus family and a lot of people a researching it all the time. The Wuhan lab isn't even particularly big or prestigious.

It's like saying that something happened in a US city within X miles of a Walmart or a Starbucks.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: chr0naut

This is China. There is evidence Covid was in China in July/August. There was a huge surge in Wuhan of hospitalizations. China just covered it up, but we have satellite data. Literally everything links back to Wuhan.

No this doesn't even indicate what the increase in hospitalizations were from.

Perhaps it was a stack of gastric problems from some bad hamburger mince?

But also, the disease being epidemic in July/August would support what I have been saying about the virus having arisen in humans earlier than the currently accepted timeline.

... and it totally destroys the timeline of lab leak from the three researchers who became sick in November.

... Ditto for the Wuhan wet market timeline.

Of course not, because China refuses access and destroys evidence. If the evidence cleared them, why would they do that?

a reply to: flice

Yep, I remember a lot people getting some mysterious sickness that mimicked the flu but they were getting negative tests that is was the flu. Some people were sick for months with the same symptoms as Covid, minus losing smell and taste. Yes, i remmber peope getting it as early as August of 2019. My husband and I firmly believe that we had Covid that early. Some people even had a long lingering cold that year, and it was the worst cold they ever had, I firmly believe that the ones who got sick had Covid. Unfortunately, they ended up getting it again in 2020, but I think those are the people who are prone to getting sick often. I never had any of those symptoms, I had a cold that lasted 4 days, for all i know I coud of had Covid because that is a long time for myself to get sick. I don't get very sick often because I have a really good immune system.

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: rounda

The way that diseases have arisen for all of previous human history, is more likely than some sort of sci-fi magic, that we really don't currently have the technology to do successfully in the lab.

Even after years of trying to produce an mRNA vaccine (which is way simpler than producing a completely novel working human pathogen, even from a existing viruses in other species), it took a year to get to phase III trials.

Spider-Man allegedly got his powers from being bitten by a radioactive spider. I don't believe that is possible either.

Just to be clear.

Just to be clear:

There are 142 known viruses which have gone from animal to human.

So no.

It is not more likely that this virus moved from bats to cats to humans.

Keep totin that line tho.

originally posted by: rounda

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: rounda

The way that diseases have arisen for all of previous human history, is more likely than some sort of sci-fi magic, that we really don't currently have the technology to do successfully in the lab.

Even after years of trying to produce an mRNA vaccine (which is way simpler than producing a completely novel working human pathogen, even from a existing viruses in other species), it took a year to get to phase III trials.

Spider-Man allegedly got his powers from being bitten by a radioactive spider. I don't believe that is possible either.

Just to be clear.

Just to be clear:

There are 142 known viruses which have gone from animal to human.

So no.

It is not more likely that this virus moved from bats to cats to humans.

Keep totin that line tho.

Even the lab leak theory and the Wuhan market origin theory both rely on the fact that the virus is zoonotic from bats.

Also, there are more than 500 known zoonotic viruses. Viral Zoonosis: A Comprehensive Review But the number of known viruses compared to the estimated total number of viruses reveals that our knowledge of the subject is sorely lacking. How many viruses on Earth?

All I am hypothesizing is that the zoonoses happened decades ago, and that SARS-CoV-2 is a human adapted virus that has remained relatively dormant in humans for some time until recently (@ 2018-2019?) where it gained pathogenic traits, and specifically the trait of suppression of ACE2 function post infection of the cell, which leads to ARDS symptomatically.

a reply to: chr0naut

How can I too get a job spinning for the CCP?
Can you put a word in with your HR department?

originally posted by: Arizona2
a reply to: chr0naut

How can I too get a job spinning for the CCP?
Can you put a word in with your HR department?

Sorry, I have no association with that country or its regime.

You will have to pursue being a traitor through other avenues.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: rounda

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: rounda

The way that diseases have arisen for all of previous human history, is more likely than some sort of sci-fi magic, that we really don't currently have the technology to do successfully in the lab.

Even after years of trying to produce an mRNA vaccine (which is way simpler than producing a completely novel working human pathogen, even from a existing viruses in other species), it took a year to get to phase III trials.

Spider-Man allegedly got his powers from being bitten by a radioactive spider. I don't believe that is possible either.

Just to be clear.

Just to be clear:

There are 142 known viruses which have gone from animal to human.

So no.

It is not more likely that this virus moved from bats to cats to humans.

Keep totin that line tho.

Even the lab leak theory and the Wuhan market origin theory both rely on the fact that the virus is zoonotic from bats.

Also, there are more than 500 known zoonotic viruses. Viral Zoonosis: A Comprehensive Review But the number of known viruses compared to the estimated total number of viruses reveals that our knowledge of the subject is sorely lacking. How many viruses on Earth?

All I am hypothesizing is that the zoonoses happened decades ago, and that SARS-CoV-2 is a human adapted virus that has remained relatively dormant in humans for some time until recently (@ 2018-2019?) where it gained pathogenic traits, and specifically the trait of suppression of ACE2 function post infection of the cell, which leads to ARDS symptomatically.

No, the lab leak theory requires the lab to have been doing research on the virus, and it to have gotten out of the lab. That's it.

There is a similar coronavirus found in bats. That's all. There is no actual, proven, link between bat coronavirus and covid19.

And guess what? They didn't even have to be researching the bat virus in order for covid19 to be produced.... you know, considering there are a bunch of coronaviruses which already affect humans...

www.cdc.gov...

Diseases That Can Spread Between Animals and People

Looks much closer to my 142 than your 500.

You're asking us to jump through hoops to believe your hypothesis, when the simplest explanation is it got out of the lab.

originally posted by: rounda

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: rounda

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: rounda

The way that diseases have arisen for all of previous human history, is more likely than some sort of sci-fi magic, that we really don't currently have the technology to do successfully in the lab.

Even after years of trying to produce an mRNA vaccine (which is way simpler than producing a completely novel working human pathogen, even from a existing viruses in other species), it took a year to get to phase III trials.

Spider-Man allegedly got his powers from being bitten by a radioactive spider. I don't believe that is possible either.

Just to be clear.

Just to be clear:

There are 142 known viruses which have gone from animal to human.

So no.

It is not more likely that this virus moved from bats to cats to humans.

Keep totin that line tho.

Even the lab leak theory and the Wuhan market origin theory both rely on the fact that the virus is zoonotic from bats.

Also, there are more than 500 known zoonotic viruses. Viral Zoonosis: A Comprehensive Review But the number of known viruses compared to the estimated total number of viruses reveals that our knowledge of the subject is sorely lacking. How many viruses on Earth?

All I am hypothesizing is that the zoonoses happened decades ago, and that SARS-CoV-2 is a human adapted virus that has remained relatively dormant in humans for some time until recently (@ 2018-2019?) where it gained pathogenic traits, and specifically the trait of suppression of ACE2 function post infection of the cell, which leads to ARDS symptomatically.

No, the lab leak theory requires the lab to have been doing research on the virus, and it to have gotten out of the lab. That's it.

There is a similar coronavirus found in bats. That's all. There is no actual, proven, link between bat coronavirus and covid19.

And guess what? They didn't even have to be researching the bat virus in order for covid19 to be produced.... you know, considering there are a bunch of coronaviruses which already affect humans...

www.cdc.gov...

Diseases That Can Spread Between Animals and People

Looks much closer to my 142 than your 500.

Those are only the zoonotic viruses affecting humans.

If zoonosis is occurring, viruses can cross to humans at any time and we can't really predict it. We have to keep looking in case it happens. That is what was being done at the Wuhan lab, and was the research that Fauci had funded.

As I recall from the book "Demon in the Freezer", if some country wanted to attack another with biological agents, they would probably use weaponized Anthrax. Perhaps mixed with some other pathogen/s, like Breakbone disease (Dengue hemorrhagic fever) to ensure maximum lethality. It is faster acting, air-borne, far deadlier, easily produced in volume, and more infectious. And it doesn't require any further expensive or time-consuming research (they could do it years ago).

You may also recall that that particular biological agent was historically used on American soil: 2001 anthrax attacks
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

a reply to: chr0naut

Yea, those are diseases that came from animals and affect humans. Exactly what we were talking about... like Avian Flu, Canine Flu, Swine Flu. There are 142 of them. Oddly enough, Bat Flu isn't listed on there.

Why are you changing the subject? Just because the virus came from the lab doesn't mean it was released as biological warfare.

Sorry bud, your hypothesis doesn't hold up. Which is why people are calling for the lab to be investigated.

Even leftist media is beginning to call for it.... They only do that when they can't hide something anymore.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Arizona2
a reply to: chr0naut

How can I too get a job spinning for the CCP?
Can you put a word in with your HR department?

Sorry, I have no association with that country or its regime.

You will have to pursue being a traitor through other avenues.

Other than defending them, right?
No need for blame, remember?
Lol
Too funny!

originally posted by: shooterbrody

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Arizona2
a reply to: chr0naut

How can I too get a job spinning for the CCP?
Can you put a word in with your HR department?

Sorry, I have no association with that country or its regime.

You will have to pursue being a traitor through other avenues.

Other than defending them, right?
No need for blame, remember?
Lol
Too funny!

Honestly, I haven't actually defended them, nor have I particularly dammed them. The reason is, that I don't feel that there is sufficient grounds to accuse them. Especially of stuff they just could not possibly be capable of. I feel that such is off-topic, anti-intellectual, ill-informed, racist irrelevance.

All of those who post something similar to "but [insert random country, or ethnicity, or tradition, or religion]..." are clearly stupid and uninformed. Because their words explain nothing, and implicate no-one with any sort of truth or credibility.

But you continue to post falsehoods in an attempt to attack me, while not once actually contributing to the topic of the thread. You are a troll. You don't even have the intellect to post an original idea, or reasoning, but you continue to post irrelevant ad-hominem.

originally posted by: rounda
a reply to: chr0naut

Yea, those are diseases that came from animals and affect humans. Exactly what we were talking about... like Avian Flu, Canine Flu, Swine Flu. There are 142 of them. Oddly enough, Bat Flu isn't listed on there.

Why are you changing the subject? Just because the virus came from the lab doesn't mean it was released as biological warfare.

And you are sure it came from a lab, and didn't come from outside natural processes?

Sorry bud, your hypothesis doesn't hold up. Which is why people are calling for the lab to be investigated.

It has been investigated, and all the experts who have investigated it have said it is "very unlikely". But these investigators are subject matter experts and are usually more interested in finding the actual source of the virus, rather than blaming someone, uselessly. So, they have always spent far more time and effort in analysis of pertinent and useful information, like where in nature the virus appears to have come from.

Yet any idiot can keep repeating allegations that have already proven untrue (and we all know instances of that). It doesn't make them true. And we have seen so much of this false allegation recently, especially from Americans, that we are all becoming a little jaded by the same voices who don't even seem to be aware of the contradictions in their multiple 'stories'.

Even leftist media is beginning to call for it.... They only do that when they can't hide something anymore.

No, what is happening is that people make serious coin off peddling the sensational. And nothing is an sensational as a slanderous lie. In a society that does nothing against such lies, they become bigger and more profuse.

Consider such media 'personalities' such as the serial slanderer Tucker Carlson. Every night someone else gets slandered! Every night! He goes around ruining people's lives just for his ratings success. And he is so self-righteous about it. That is the face of true evil, "the accuser of the brethren".

But what is going to happen, is that someone is going to raise a clear and unequivocal disproof of one of these unfounded allegations. And then, when we know the truth, the person or persons slandered are going to go on a spree of prosecution of all the slanderers they can target. It will make them rich, and popular, because they are really upholding the truth. No doubt, others will follow suit, and society will be the better for the removal of the liars.

And then, afterwards, once again, the media (that remain) will be held to responsibility of having good strong evidence for what they allege. There will once again be awards in journalism for those that have high ethical filters and actually capture the criminals and the liars.

And the people in the public eye will once again be held responsible and scrutinized for adherence to the truth, like it was in the old days, and if someone proves untrue, they will then be dumped on, publicly, loudly, and probably financially, for a long time.

a reply to: chr0naut

www.reuters.com...

The Chinese did it.
Can't wait to see you have to type that.

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: chr0naut

www.reuters.com...

The Chinese did it.
Can't wait to see you have to type that.

It said 'may' have.

It's just another empty, politically motivated allegation.

I need proof.