Israel and Palestine at it again.

a reply to: yuppa

No i do not fantasize about killing people

Really? Whats this then?

id level gaza alright....with Fuel air bombs since they are designated terrorist enablers.

a reply to: SecretKnowledge

That isn't "fantacizing" about anything.

Its military strategy. Pure and simple.

Sound one at that.

Massive retaliation and total destruction is the best deterrent there is. In war, one kills one's enemies. Call it what you will: I call it smart strategy and tactical doctrine.

originally posted by: SecretKnowledge
a reply to: yuppa

No i do not fantasize about killing people

Really? Whats this then?

id level gaza alright....with Fuel air bombs since they are designated terrorist enablers.

Strategy of shock and awe. demoralizing your enemy with over powering destruction. War is not nice,and orderly. war is to be won by any means necessary.

a reply to: yuppa

now now,attacking a poster is bad correct?

Whereas killing women, children and civilians is perfectly ok?

You got any of those links I asked you for, I would really like to read up on what you posted earlier?

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Seems to me that Israel's policy on how to beat the devil is to become the devil themselves.

As pointed out by another poster(s) their desire for lebensraum and certain other policies are remarkably similar to a certain regime that the Jewish people, and thus by extension Israel, should be oh so familiar with.

That's not to excuse the desire of Hamas and other elements within the Arab/Muslim world to exterminate Israel.

Two sides of the same bigoted, intolerant coin.

History seems littered with examples whereby the same people are bitterly divided by religion.

a reply to: yuppa

You dont have to explain war to me i grew in Ireland during the bombing campaign. We had to bomb the brits to the table and once we got them there we now have peace. I know all about struggling against bigots.

But now we have peace.

a reply to: Freeborn

a reply to: SecretKnowledge

So the killing of so many innocent people, including children, justified the acts of terrorism carried out by the I.R.A. etc?

I'm not excusing many of the things the 'British' did in Ireland over the years but The Troubles became nothing but different sets of shysters, racketeers and gangsters exploiting, bullying and extorting the Irish people for their own gain.

And if you honestly think it was the bombing campaign that brought the British government to the negotiating table then you a) have a very poor understanding of the British people and b) also have a poor understanding of what are actually relatively recent events.

I really don't want to derail this thread but I'd love to discuss this further with you if would like to start a thread on it.

a reply to: Freeborn

So the killing of so many innocent people, including children, justified the acts of terrorism carried out by the I.R.A. etc?

On the news today i seen Johnson apologise for the murder of 10 innocent Irish civilians in 1971. By the british army no less. Supposed peace keepers. There were many innocent people killed by both sides. JOHNSON APOLOGY
The british army colluded many times with the uda, a terrorist organisation. So the british army were a terrorist organisation in Northern Ireland back then.

Im not starting a thread on it, it will become a tit for tat slanging match. Not between me and you but by others. Im tired of debating it i really am. The british people really dont know how much murdering the british army did. Today's news is a tiny portion of it

a reply to: dragonridr

Thank you for that video.
Some of that I knew, some of it I didn't.

I'm no Palestinian apologist or rabid anti-Israeli, both are as bad as each other as far as I can tell.

The thing with yuppa is that he has a tendency to voice his opinions - which tend to be be from a locked in, preconceived perspective - and only very, very rarely provide any sort of supportive evidence or even considered and reasoned thought.

He is quick to tell us what he would do but as far as I can tell he's never, ever done anything other than type words onto a computer screen.

At times he can post some interesting stuff.....I just wish he'd provide us with facts, data, supportive evidence and reasoned thought rather than just predictable soundbites based on political dogma.

But I guess we're all guilty of that some times.

a reply to: SecretKnowledge

On the news today i seen Johnson apologise for the murder of 10 innocent Irish civilians in 1971.

Like I said, I'm not excusing some of the actions carried out by The British Army of government.

Can't recall the I.R.A. apologising for the bombings in Warrington, Enniskillen, Omagh etc.

The british army colluded many times with the uda, a terrorist organisation.

Which prevented numerous planned terrorist attacks by the I.R.A.
How many civilian lives did that save?

So the british army were a terrorist organisation in Northern Ireland back then.

Elements within were certainly rogue.

Im not starting a thread on it, it will become a tit for tat slanging match. Not between me and you but by others.

That might be true....but like you say, certainly not by me.

Im tired of debating it i really am.

I never get tired of talking about it....there is so much bull# spread by both sides.

The british people really dont know how much murdering the british army did.

Some don't, some do.
The thing is, to counter that.....very few Irish people give a toss about the British civilians killed by the I.R.A

One thing I can absolutely assure you of; it wasn't the bombing campaign that brought about the peace negotiations.

Ireland and its history is far more complex than many people make out.
Such a great people as well.

originally posted by: SecretKnowledge
a reply to: Freeborn

So the killing of so many innocent people, including children, justified the acts of terrorism carried out by the I.R.A. etc?

On the news today i seen Johnson apologise for the murder of 10 innocent Irish civilians in 1971. By the british army no less. Supposed peace keepers. There were many innocent people killed by both sides. JOHNSON APOLOGY
The british army colluded many times with the uda, a terrorist organisation. So the british army were a terrorist organisation in Northern Ireland back then.

Im not starting a thread on it, it will become a tit for tat slanging match. Not between me and you but by others. Im tired of debating it i really am. The british people really dont know how much murdering the british army did. Today's news is a tiny portion of it

The British army assisted British loyalists in Northern Ireland call me shocked. Not really that surprising seems like if they were going to support anyone be the group that wants to stay with Britain huh? Having said that make a thread we can discuss the IRA and even the differences to the palistinians. And just to clarify it wasnt the attacks that brought the British to the table they were in constant contact through secret meetings. They were willing to talk to each other.

So as not to cause thread drift you can pm me with a comment if you like.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: dragonridr

Thank you for that video.
Some of that I knew, some of it I didn't.

I'm no Palestinian apologist or rabid anti-Israeli, both are as bad as each other as far as I can tell.

The thing with yuppa is that he has a tendency to voice his opinions - which tend to be be from a locked in, preconceived perspective - and only very, very rarely provide any sort of supportive evidence or even considered and reasoned thought.

He is quick to tell us what he would do but as far as I can tell he's never, ever done anything other than type words onto a computer screen.

At times he can post some interesting stuff.....I just wish he'd provide us with facts, data, supportive evidence and reasoned thought rather than just predictable soundbites based on political dogma.

But I guess we're all guilty of that some times.

This conflict won't end until both sides want it to stop. Unfortunately, the Palestinians haven't had enough yet. And part of that is they are controlled by Jordan and Iran. Hamas doesn't care about its people if they did they would set up the rockets in fields away from the people. They would issue warnings when they knew an attack was to come, think about it when Britain bombs a location they give an hour's notice. What country invents knockers to be dropped on buildings to warn people no other military in the world does that.

en.wikipedia.org...

Did you know an Israeli soldier was just injured trying to get medical supplies to Gaza. People don't want to talk about what Israel does for them such as providing food medicine water power and even money. Without Israel, Palestinians wouldn't have electricity or drinkable water. This is why people claim the prison thing it makes it seem like they are required to support them but they are not and could just stop. And if they did Palestinians would die in mass.

a reply to: Freeborn

Which prevented numerous planned terrorist attacks by the I.R.A. How many civilian lives did that save?

Which enabled numerous planned terrorist attacks by the UDA. How many civilian lives were lost?

Elements within were certainly rogue.

Elements within were muderers

very few Irish people give a toss about the British civilians killed by the I.R.A

Very few english people give a toss about the Irish civilians killed by the British army/UDA

And it turns out that Johnson didnt even apologise for the murders, he apologised for the operation that led to the murders. Typical.

Im done. We can go back and forth all night. Every time you mention british civilians killed by the IRA, i can do exactly the same about the Irish civilians killed by british army.

Im done im not replying anymore im tired of this topic

a reply to: SecretKnowledge

See? Typical british reply. Calling murderers 'rogue

And a 'typical' Irish response dismissing British victims and justifying killing people because other people were killed.

I'm not defending the actions of certain sections and elements in The British Army during The Troubles but to blame them all would be the same as blaming every Catholic in Ireland for the actions of the I.R.A.
You see, I know lots of lads who served in Ireland.
Most of them were just ordinary people like you and me who joined up because there was no other option - Thatcher's Britain - and they were scared #less and just did their tour and were grateful to get home in one piece.
Some have never been the same since.
I could go on and relate a few horrific stories, but what's point? It seems your mindset is locked in.

Not one single attempt by anyone connected with The Provo's, Sinn Fein etc to apologise for the civilians they killed but plenty of fingers being pointed at British Armed personnel etc at the moment.

Any attempt to point out anything that runs contrary to the Irish Nationalist message and agenda is immediately portrayed as arrogance by those bastard English.
Its bollocks.

No mention of the collusion between I.R.A. and U.D.A. in joint drug and gun running.
Profit became far more important than 'the cause'.

What about all the kneecappings of small time drug dealers?
Not because they were trying to keep drugs out of their areas but because they were independent and weren't selling the terrorists drugs or giving them kickbacks.
Or the countless small businesses that had to pay good old fashioned protection money - allegedly for 'the cause' - or their businesses were fired etc?

I could go on and relate more stories because you see I know quite a few people - from both sides - who had to flee from Belfast/Derry because of The Provo's and the UDA and their intolerance and racketeering.

We should NEVER stop talking about this because the truth needs to be told - the real truth not the politically correct version spread just to ease modern day sensitivities and political expedience.

I could literally go on and on about the many misconceptions and blatant lies told about Ireland.
Not much of it portrays any of the concerned parties in a particularly good light.

The British have committed some atrocious acts in Ireland over the years.

It is absolutely imperative that the peace in Ireland is maintained at all costs, but we really need to start being totally honest and open with each other.

a reply to: Freeborn

When I was young it all seemed like a game
Living here brought no sense of shame
But now I'm older I've come to understand
Once we had houses
Once we had land
They rained down bullets on us as our homes collapsed
We lay beneath the rubble terrified

Hoping.. Dare we dream?
We gave up waiting
For us, to dream is still a dream

When I woke up, the house was broken stones
We suddenly had nothing
And nothing's changed

We live, eight people, in this overcrowded heat
Factory-farmed animals living in our own sweat
Living like this is all my baby brother ever knew
The world does nothing. What can we do?

We will kick the ball
We will skip the rope
We will play outside. Be careful
We will paint and draw. We will say our prayers

Outside the pitiless sun bleaches the broken streets
The darkness drops in the evening like an iron door
The men play cards under torchlight
The women stay inside
Hell can erupt in a moment day or night

You ask for trouble if you stray too close to the wall
My father died.. feeding the birds
Mum goes in front of me to check for soldiers

For every hot-head stone ten come back
For every hot-head stone a hundred come back
For every rocket fired the drones come back

For thirteen years the roads have all been closed
We're isolated. We're denied medical supplies
Fuel and work are scarce. They build houses on our farms
The old men weep. The young men take up arms.

We're packed like chickens in this town of block cement
I get a headache from the diesel. When it rains, the sewers too
I had no idea what martyrdom meant
Until my older brother.. my older brother
I'm sorry. I can't continue

. You sow the wind, you reap the whirlwind, it is said
When people know they have no future
Can we blame them if we cannot tame them?
And when their hopes and dreams are broken
And they feel they might as well be dead
As they go, will we forgive them
If they take us with them?

Stay close
Stay home
Stay calm
Have faith

With the love of our family we can rise above anything
Someday surely someone must help us
With the love of our family we can rise above anything
Someday surely someone must help us
Even now we will go to school
Even now we will dream to dream
Someday surely someone must help us

Nothing's ever simple - that's for sure
There are grieving mothers on both sides of the wire
And everyone deserves a chance to feel the future just might be bright
But any way you look at it - whichever point of view
For us to have to live like this
It just ain't right
It just ain't right
It just ain't right

We all want peace and freedom that's for sure
But peace won't come from standing on our necks
Everyone deserves a chance to feel the future just might be bright
But any way you look at this - whichever point of view
For us to have to live like this
It just ain't right
It just ain't right
It just ain't right

It's like a nightmare rose up slouching towards Bethlehem
Like a nightmare rose up from this small strip of land
Slouching towards Bethlehem

It's like a nightmare rose up from this small strip of land
Slouching towards Bethlehem

Stay close
Stay home
Have faith

I can't know what twist of history did this to me
It's like a nightmare

With the love of our family
We can rise above anything
Some day surely someone must help us..

Biden wants Netanyahu to show "good faith" by unilaterally cancelling the bombing.

Would Palestine reciprocate and stop also?

Israel is just as old Egypt where the slaves making everything for them where treated less then animals which became the people of god later and where promised the promised land.

The Palestinians are looked at as worthless, mocked at every day, they have no power. I'm sure they are god's people way way more then the Jews.
Say bad stuff, even being critical about Jews and it ends always in being a antisemitic.

A tweet from the PM of Israel:

The weak crumble, are slaughtered and are erased from history while the strong, for good or for ill, survive. The strong are respected, and alliances are made with the strong, and in the end peace is made with the strong.

So Israel is displaying self-righteousness but being unholy in truth.

Just look at what Jesus said:
Whoever oppresses a poor man insults his Maker, but he who is generous to the needy honors him.

Whoever has a bountiful eye will be blessed, for he shares his bread with the poor.

For there will never cease to be poor in the land. Therefore I command you, ‘You shall open wide your hand to your brother, to the needy and to the poor, in your land.’

Whoever gives to the poor will not want, but he who hides his eyes will get many a curse.

And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said: “Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God. “Blessed are you who are hungry now, for you shall be satisfied. “Blessed are you who weep now, for you shall laugh.

Whoever closes his ear to the cry of the poor will himself call out and not be answered.

He said also to the man who had invited him, “When you give a dinner or a banquet, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or rich neighbors, lest they also invite you in return and you be repaid. But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. For you will be repaid at the resurrection of the just.”

A righteous man knows the rights of the poor; a wicked man does not understand such knowledge.

But if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God's love abide in him?

Long list so read the rest here:
www.openbible.info...

Palestinians are like the poor and are suppressed people and most likely are god's people which are seen as worthless & suffer and being mocked at by Israel from what I see.

a reply to: Freeborn

Freeborn, what should Israel do then? Hamas/Iran/Jordan intentionally hides among civilians

To mitigate this, Israel actually warns them in advance of their strikes, despite the risk that the fighters will pack up shop and move elsewhere.

Hamas, meanwhile, has no qualms about targetting civilians with indiscriminate missiles, suicide bombings, stabbings, etc

Israel doesnt dig secret tunnels to funnel terrorists, thats also Hamas/Iran/Jordan

And once again they rejected the two state solution because this triad of evil does not believe Israel has the most basic right...the right to exist

a reply to: Pluginn

How do you figure? They had the chance to have their own sovereign nation. If they'd have accepted instead of listening to Iran and Jordan they would be the world's newest country and probably even have a peace treaty with Israel!

Instead, they allowed that bas# rogue state Iran to wage their "death to Israel" extermination campaign at their expense

Iran and Hamas are responsible for those deaths. Standard operating procedure for countering a missile launch is to counter attack the launch site. Its automatic and required if the people in question don't enjoy having deadly steel tubes of death raining on them at all times (they don't)

They will never achieve tactical victory over Israel and they blew their chance at a two state solution. Their choice now is to 1) go to another country if you don't like Israel's laws and 2) surrender the terrorists to the authorities which will eliminate the need for counterattacks

righteous man knows the rights of the poor; a wicked man does not understand such knowledge.

Poor? They are poor because they spend millions upon millions on weapons from that # state Iran! Instead of buying bullets and bombs, why arent they buying food, medicines and working to improve their lives?

Why do they intentionally hide among civilians and cause so much destruction and homelessness as a result?

This could be very dangerous for Jews living in the USA.

Hamas is directing supporters to grab a Jewish person on the street and slit their throat.

Source: justthenews.com...

The Black Lives Matter (BLM) organization is looking for things to keep them busy. Now that they are supporting HAMAS, there could be lots of Jewish people murdered by BLM members.

BLM needs to be officially designated as a Terrorist organization, and the leadership locked away...or placed before one of the recently approved firing squads.