"Pfizer Vac Will Not Give Immunity!"

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

I check enough boxes at my advanced age of 67 that I'm not prepared to roll the dice because Buddy on the net tells me my doctor is wrong.

But but Johnny, think of your future kids...lol

This is why if a person, especially a woman, 45+ they are not having kids anymore, so whatever the worries are there are moot.

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

The freedom to infect others? Keep your freedoms as long as you keep away.

I think you can still be infectious after the vaccine, but maybe the duration is shorter. You are 67 and lets say you get it and feel like crap for a couple of days then you are better. People will say it didn't work, but maybe it kept you from going down a really bad path as we have seen.

originally posted by: IAMTAT

Odds are they will regret their jab.

Why not the other way in odds are they will have nothing worst than a normal flu shot...

originally posted by: dug88

You are fine with being dependent on pfizer indefinitely?

Do people get a flu shot yearly? lol

a reply to: underpass61

More vaccinated people are staying out of the hospital than unvaccinated is my point.

I don't know why I even entered an argument on this. I really don't care if this thing mutates into a major killer and severely culls the population. I was avoiding places with people long before the pandemic, so I reckon I will continue to sail through this unscathed. I read something about Michigan seeing a surge of 20-40 year olds and children needing oxygen and life support. Oh well, huh?

You know it's not a vaccine when Merriam Webster has to literally change the definition of vaccine to include mRNA treatments. Stop calling it a vaccine. Vaccines DO provide immunity, polio as an example. The OP admitted that this is a treatment at best and NOT a vaccine that provides immunity.

STOP CALLING IT A VACCINE.

Definition before 2020


Definition after 2020


Notice a change?

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck
Yup, that's what I was told by the paramedic who checked me out after my shot a week ago.

Thank goodness you have a paramedic to fulfill your medical information.

a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

we should all be free to do what we want with regard to this vaccine. If you want it, get it, if you don't, then don't.
But when you hear it won't keep you from getting Covid, and you still have to wear a mask, there isn't a real drive for most young folks to get the shot. If we get sick (by young, I mean under 65) we have about the same chance to survival as you do to get a blood clot from J&J (conspiracy math) so there just isn't any incentive I can see. That thinking has nothing to do with fear of the jab, just applying some common sense. Plus, if you do get it, you have real immunity for at least some time.

Thanks for sharing this info either way.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: IAMTAT

yes. Clinical environments will not allow you to work without being vaccinated.

So ill restate: What government is threatening freedom?

I dont think the government is actually the driving factor behind concerns, its just something of a tradition to focus on it I suppose.

I see pretty much all of it as social groups. Historically, we have centralized power and authority out of civilizational necessity. As is frequently said, we gave government a monopoly on the use of violence.

Like everything though, this is a double-edged sword and the negatives associated with this were mitigated through documents like the Constitution & Bill of Rights.

However..

In an age of 4th and 5th generation warfare, the historical use of violence is largely obsolete. In this modern context, massive corporations are poised to complete assume the role of monopolized power and authority.

They are not really in a position for society to cede the monopoly on the use of violence & force itself though. That largely remains the realm of government. But, if events were to occur in a way that subverts that paradigm.. It essentially takes away the one advantage government has over corporations in driving society. Arguably, this exact thing has been happening for the past year.

The use of force and coercion with regards to vaccines is a bit more obfuscated than simple government mandate and much of it is done through proxies. Functionally, its exactly the same end result, but instead of something like police we see the paradigms being enforced through social/cultural blackmail, ability to conduct business, ability to travel, ability to speak freely, etc.

Personally, Im not taking the vaccine because I have multiple mysterious severe health issues. And last year, my immune system went absolutely crazy and I almost lost my life. I also very rarely go out in public due to the aforementioned health issues. This seems to be a reasonable stance to me, but I fully expect to become a 2nd (or 3rd) class citizen.

For me personally, what leverages this into a much more strongly held position is that I believe vaccines for seasonal illnesses is precipitating a biological war that we can never hope to win. Then we bring in the relative newness of the tech, the disingenuousness, duplicity, authoritarianism, etc. and I end up exactly where I am.

On the flip side, the mRNA tech specifically may be a helluva thing. But in the end, its still just a tool and as such, it depends on how its used.

All that said, if the world we are building now is the one people truly desire.. then so be it. Of course, I will continue to offer and work on alternatives, and I dont think too many really understand what they are working towards, but if it is what people truly want.. it will happen regardless of the objections of folks like me.

TL;DR: I believe traditional governments are largely obsolete, and a specific grouping of corporations, NGOs, etc. are assuming the role of authority. And should they decide to functionally remove Rights from the general population, it will technically be entirely Constitutional. All the while, many will signal their Brand Loyalty in accordance with marketing. Marketing which is carefully crafted through many years of research and potentiated by real-time feedback from data collection and addiction to the platforms that provide access to that behavioral data.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: panoz77
Oh, and you still have to wear a mask, social distance and live like a hermit under a bridge? AWESOME!

The problem is that the vax and this above are not really connected or based on the same objective. The vax is to take the virus out of the "nuevo" stage and make it one the body recognizes so symptoms are greatly reduce. The key is not to really prevent it, but to keep people from having extreme reactions.

What you listed above only has to do with infection/death rates and not much more. This doesn't mean I agree with it, but that is why places are jumping back and forth between Phases 2 and 3.

So the shots are treatments and NOT vaccines, right? Treatments reduce symptoms, vaccines provide immunity. Correct?

No immunity yet; it takes 2 full weeks after the 2nd shot before full immunization.

a reply to: M5xaz

That is the problem in our area, we used to have some pretty decent size hospitals here. They were replaced with new small hospitals that look pretty inside. They are like shopping malls, but I would swear there is more hallway and waiting area and caffeteria space in our closest hospital than in the combination of all offices and hospital rooms combined. There are offices in back and also storage areas but I consider that as not part of either.

The people running the hospitals are more interested in their hospital looking impressive than it being able to help in a major tragedy and from what I hear from others around the country, this practice is happening everywhere. Our old hospitals here could hold at least double the amount of people as the new ones....I commented on this and people told me I was overreacting, they said we need to increase technology and bring down heating costs of the hospitals....so they spent many million to build new ones, then they almost went bankrupt.

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Nyiah

If im being honest: 99% of the stuff people see as undertones, etc...im just deaf to. I read and take in what is plainly stated, and just am no use trying to read between the lines.

This topic is just like politics. Every one thinks they are right, and that generally applies to a worldview that is polar. I was pretty clear in my own thoughts on this subject. Its a personal choice. Take it or dont. I work with a lady that is 25, and isn't going to get it. I think that is a smart move. She has no health issues, and would like to maybe have kids one day. No need to take on that risk.

Me? I took it because it makes sense.

What i DON"T like is the anti anything crowd totally missing any nuanced conversation in their world of polar extremes.

Pretty much why I've never made a "No Jabs 4 Moi" thread.

I keep wondering why people can't just grow a pair and be respectful adults like THEY want to be treated for their choice. Don't like that the vaxer got vaxed? Ok, but keep it to yourself, you chose the opposite route for as much a reason as a vaxer. Same goes for the vaxer -- don't like that I didn't get one? Keep it to yourself, if nobody brings it up, then good, we're better off with one less petty BS angle to beat each other with.

Nobody respects this. And it all comes off as smug, crappy people just perpetually slinging low-key poo-embedded mud.

When I say the following I'm not sure if I'm speaking for much people on ATS but I surely am for myself and the people I see wye to eye with.

It should be clear by now that this whole thing isn't just a
"oh you dont want to take it? Okay, no problem"
type of thing. When have we EVER needed an app to enter places, an app that says if you're jabbed up or not? A grocery store in NYC has already implemented this app... a GROCERY STORE. It was already ridiculous when it was a movie theater but something so esssential? Lockstep 2010, Clade X, Event 201, Agenda 21, Agenda 2030 all have simillar timelines, a timeline we're currently in. We're basically in the endgame of their 1000D Chess game.
People are getting hurt and dying after these jabs, human beings that don't want to see other human beings get hurt will of course go on and on about why you shouldn't take it and to PLEASE don't take it. People without this point of view will of course view this as someone pushing their anti vaxx crazyness onto them.
We're in deep sh# as a society/race of beings and not much people seem to realize this.
The world pre March 2020 will NEVER come back, just like how the world pre 9/11 never did.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Polio cripples children and kills people horribly, covid doesn't...

I guess all I can say is thanks for being the lab rat...to you or any other taking one of these vaccine. In 5 too 10 years maybe we will have some comprehensive knowledge on their side effects and its will be thanks to people like you...sure won't be from people like me.

a reply to: Kromlech

They state that you can still get and spread this virus with the mRNA vaccines, you just get lots more protection from getting it turn into covid. There is a reduction of time you can shed virus if you get the virus, but not nearly as much reduction as actually having the virus. You do not gain full immunity to the virus, your giving the body an adequate immune response to keep from getting a serious disease forming is what the information says, they have changed the definition of a vaccine now to accommodate the change in these kind of treatments.

In order to get real immunity, our bodies must be stimulated to figure out how the virus works so it can tackle it from multiple fronts both innate and antigen based. There is no real evidence how this is going to work long term yet, there will be after maybe a year....if they do not try to cover up their mistakes with this. The fact that there is probably going to be a booster needed within six months tells me that this vaccine cannot handle much change in the virus. But remember, they have had problems with the flu vaccine mutating out of parameters too, when they say it has a forty fivepercent efficy in flu vaccines, that means up to two of the viruses targeted might not match at all to the vaccine and it could be worthless for that virus....it means that the developers chose the wrong mutation path to put into the vaccine. I think there are four different types of vaccines in a standard flu vaccine now. If they all worked, it would be probably a ninety percent efficy. Don't know if I spelled efficy correctly if you are a grammar nazi.

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck
Yup, that's what I was told by the paramedic who checked me out after my shot a week ago.

Thank goodness you have a paramedic to fulfill your medical information.

Well, the front-line medical staff were busy getting the injections done. It doesn't take a doctor or nurse to watch me for a potential reaction to the vaccine, so I figure I was well-served having a paramedic giving me the spiel. Heck, when I get my annual flu shot, I sit around in front of a pharmacy clerk for the required 15 minutes.

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck
Yup, that's what I was told by the paramedic who checked me out after my shot a week ago.

Thank goodness you have a paramedic to fulfill your medical information.

Well, the front-line medical staff were busy getting the injections done. It doesn't take a doctor or nurse to watch me for a potential reaction to the vaccine, so I figure I was well-served having a paramedic giving me the spiel. Heck, when I get my annual flu shot, I sit around in front of a pharmacy clerk for the required 15 minutes.

He wasn't just watching you. He was giving you questionable medical advice. He has no more knowledge about the efficacy of the vaccines than you do.

a reply to: RickyD

My profession requires me to get the vaccine and tested every two days, what alternatives would you recommend.

originally posted by: dug88
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Polio cripples children and kills people horribly, covid doesn't...

Really?

www.worldometers.info...


www.mayoclinic.org...

don't let your ideology get in the way of your common sense.