This is a compelling story!!! (Earth, Heaven, Hell)

a reply to: Lazarus Short

John 15: 16
16. Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Lazarus Short

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Lazarus Short

Ok Laz but
What of the demons, eternal beings, where are they for eternity?
Humanity is not eternal so they are burned away like chaff in the unquenchable fire but demons are eternal, demons, the fallen, they are eternal so where do they go, are they reconciled as well?
Where do you get in the bible humanity is eternal, I can’t find that.
Even in heaven, humanity is sustained by Jesus Himself

Outside of Jesus there can be no life
delightinginchrist.com...

"Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?" I Corinthians 6:3, KJV

As for the rest, the program of reconciliation is not finished yet, and I agree: no life is possible without Jesus the Christ, but remember that He gives rain to the just AND the unjust, and also finds the lost sheep.

What? Seriously, what has judging angels got to do with anything?
Just totally ignore my question with a random, irrelevant statement

I don’t care about rain, just, unjust or judging angels

Answer the question or at least deal with it like an adult, not smoke and mirror answers irrelevant

When I said that we will judge angels, I had in mind that demons, etc. are fallen angels. Easy. I was not trying to smoke and mirror you. As far as humanity being immortal/eternal, obviously we are not so in the here and now, but the Breath of Life (one of the Seven Spirits of God) in us is eternal. Only in the next world age, when Breath is rejoined with a glorified body will we be immortal. Better?

a reply to: DustybudzZ

In the new heaven there will not be a sun but there will be a moon to mark time. Time is not as many are taught. A happening will have order but no time. In other words there will not be time and motion but there will be motion and order of motion.

You don't understand how to understand. Let me spell it out for you. I showed the scripture that time outside the city is marked by a moon. Time only applies to the children of Flesh who were given those 100 years to be sanctified and who live outside of New Jerusalem. Their time is marked by the moon. There is no mention of a sun in the new creation.

Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

No one actually understands time and motion. We assume by secular science that lack of time affects motion but in what manner is assumption. Therein lays the evidence. Not proof but theological evidence at best.

I wrote " In the new heaven there will not be a sun but there will be a moon to mark motion. Time is not as many are taught. A happening will have order but no time. In other words there will not be time and motion but there will be motion and order of motion".

I should not have put two thoughts into one sentence so here is what is meant.

"In the new heaven there will not be a sun. But there will be a moon to mark time. Time is not as many are taught. A happening will have order but no time. In other words there will not be time and motion but there will be motion and order of motion" --

I had already showed you in Isaiah 66:23 that the moon is a marker for time for the children of flesh so there is not need to be confused with that.

Time has nothing to do with the first creation. Time was a creation by the Creator for this universe only. Before the creation of time there was no time or meaning of a word eternity.

You asked
By your definition what is
"order of motion"?

Order of motion is motion without time.

a reply to: LazarusShort

Did Jesus the Christ not state that He came, not for the righteous, but for sinners? I do remember that He stated that the whores and tax collectors would enter the Kingdom before the Pharisees.

Also he said this because of how the pharisees was and how they treated people and that they didn't actually glorify GOD the way they should have
they was appointed by GOD and put into high places of honor and authority, but they did not humble themselves and they used their positions for welth power and corruption and only like to put on a show in front of others and loved to be honored and all the get adoration & adulation

Matthew 23: 1-12
1. Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
2. Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
3. All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
4. For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
5. But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
6. And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
7. And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
8. But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
10. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
11. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
12. And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

Matthew 5: 20
20. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Remember being a sinner is different then being a
nonbeliever or not part of the
(chosen) (elect) (children of GOD)

We are all sinners
But...

Matthew 22: 14
14. For many are called, but few are chosen.

Apparently even some who think they are saved and believe are not part of the "chosen, elect, children of GOD"

Matthew 7: 21-23
21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23. And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

a reply to: Raggedyman

All you did there was prove the “fire” of hell was eternal
Tell me to study the bible and you can’t comprehend basic English

Have another go, just don’t cut your foot off, it’s not a command

Really???

LOL

Now your just making me laugh I mean honestly I have repeatedly given you more then enough scriptural evidence on the issue...
you have given absolutely none to back up you claim...

So you tell me to quote from the Bible and I do so with overwhelming evidential support and you still say I have proven nothing well sir no amount of evidence will convince you then

I think you are either just to proud and would rather look foolish in your denial...
or You are completely delusional...
or you are the one that can't comprehend basic English...

go back and re read every single scripture I gave on the issue

Better yet prove me wrong...

instead of just saying I'm wrong...

You asked me to show you in scripture where it proves this,
I gave them to you, I explained them to you and you still think I'm wrong so...

Now show me where I'm wrong...
Prove me wrong with scriptural evidence and I'll admit I was wrong

As I said before
Please...
if you can not articulate an elaborate explanation of your reasoning with scriptural evidence then you are wasting my time

a reply to: Lazarus Short

When I said that we will judge angels, I had in mind that demons, etc. are fallen angels. Easy. I was not trying to smoke and mirror you. As far as humanity being immortal/eternal, obviously we are not so in the here and now, but the Breath of Life (one of the Seven Spirits of God) in us is eternal. Only in the next world age, when Breath is rejoined with a glorified body will we be immortal. Better?

Apparently he does not understand

or he is just to proud

He didn't get the just and unjust concept either and both of us said it
Unaware of eachother posts of the same response

a reply to: Seede

Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

So in that city there is no need for their light. No where in God's word does he say there wont be a sun and a moon in the new heaven.

It is true man measures time by the distance it take to travel. However in an Holy eternal everlasting state we will have no need of time. But what of those who are born on the new earth outside the New Jerusalem?

Time was created on the first day when God called for the Light and was kept going when he made the sun, moon and stars on the fourth day to perpetuate the night and day cycle.

A holy God has no need of Time, neither do angels, and neither will holy men and women in holy bodies with God forever.

a reply to: Lazarus Short

No it’s not better, “the breath of life”?
Humanity is sustained by Jesus, “The Word”, take away God sustaining the human and they cease being, gone forever to eternal shame, nothing, no more, a memory at most, burned away like chaff.
I havnt seen anyone prove humans are eternal like angels/demons are eternal.
Hell is eternal, the flames are eternal, but no evidence humans are eternal.

www.truthaccordingtoscripture.com...

a reply to: DustybudzZ

Dusty, if you did give me evidence humanity was eternal then you failed as I didn’t see it or understand it
I, unlike you didn’t make the statement that humans were eternal, I don’t have to explain they are eternal
You made the comment so I asked you to prove it biblically and you havnt established that in my opinion
That simple

You gave me nothing but biblical word salad and your confirmation bias, passages you believe support your view and those passages did not

Try harder, but I know you can’t, you don’t understand the bible

a reply to: DustybudzZ

Jesus Christ is the only WAY
because he is the only WAY to the Father & true salvation...
Jesus Christ is the only TRUTH because everything he said & did
was the only TRUTH...
Jesus Christ is the only LIFE
Because we are supposed to emulate our lives after his, we should live our LIFE just like he did with true love & compassion...so we my have a real LIFE with meaning a peaceful LIFE a happy LIFE...

Christ is the way, the truth and the life....what is happening now is what is happening. There is no other way....no other life....no separate lives.

A LIFE whilst we live that leads to true salvation so we may have true LIFE after death...

True life is here now .....but the illusion of a separate you has to die.
The separate you requires time.........but nothing can leave or enter the present happening.

The present happening is the garden of Eden.
But thoughts speak of a you that is outside of the present happening.......that you does not exist.

Only the present happening appears to exist......there is no thing separate.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

So in that city there is no need for their light. No where in God's word does he say there wont be a sun and a moon in the new heaven.

Yes that is what i meant to say Chester.

Also from my own understanding, and from my Nazarene teaching, i believe that the people who are not accountable in this life will be given their chance in the new earth with up to 100 years of life in the flesh. This includes all humans who were mentally challenged as well as aborted. Of course this is not taught in most Christian orders but is a part of our religion.

We cannot accept the teaching that God, through Jesus, would allow only certain lives to be rewarded with everlasting life or be given the oportunity for everlasting life. We also cannot accept that God, through Jesus, would allow some people to enjoy everlasting life with out being accountable and require others to be accountable.

originally posted by: SeedeThis includes all humans who were mentally challenged as well as aborted.

I do believe he will wholly save intellectually disabled people because of his grace. But I can almost say it for sure for Christian parents because of verse that Paul wrote.

For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

We become holy through imputation of Christ Holiness when we believe, but our children are holy because at least one of the parents is a practicing believer.

A clarification of universalist theology:

The Calvinist shows us a view of a God Who can save all, but does not care to do so, saving only a few.

The Arminian looks to a God Who wants to save all, but for some reason is able to save only a few.

The Universalist posits a God Who is both willing and able to save all, being as He is, omnipotent, thus saving all.

Compare this with the reasons Jesus the Christ gave for His mission to this Earth:

A Look Back at the Good News
I kept seeing, as I studied Gospel after Gospel, Jesus’ statements concerning why He was there in that time and place. I decided to collect them all, and see what they add up to.

Matthew 5:17 – “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.”

Matthew 9:13 – “…I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”

Matthew 10:34-35 – “Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. FOR I AM COME TO SET A MAN AT VARIANCE AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND THE DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND THE DAUGHTER IN LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER IN LAW.”

Matthew 15:24 – “…I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

Matthew 18:11 – “For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.”

Matthew 20:28 – “…the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.”

Mark 1:38 – “Let us go into the next towns, that I may preach there also: for therefore came I forth.”

Mark 2:17 – “They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”

Luke 4:18-19 – “THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS UPON ME, BECAUSE HE HATH ANOINTED ME TO PREACH THE GOSPEL TO THE POOR; HE HATH SENT ME TO HEAL THE BROKENHEARTED, TO PREACH DELIVERANCE TO THE CAPTIVES, AND RECOVERING OF SIGHT TO THE BLIND, TO SET AT LIBERTY THEM THAT ARE BRUISED, TO PREACH THE ACCEPTABLE YEAR OF THE LORD.”

Luke 4:43 – “I must preach the kingdom of God to other cities also: for therefore am I sent.”

Luke 5:31-32 – “They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”

Luke 9:56 – “For the Son of man is not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them.”

Luke 12:49 – “I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?”

Luke 12:51 – “Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division.”

Luke 19:10 – “For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.”

Luke 24:26 – “Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?”

Luke 24:46-47 – “Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”

John 3:14-17 – “And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”

John 4:34 – “My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.”

John 5:30 – “…I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.”

John 5:43 – “I am come in my Father’s name…”

John 6:38-40 – “For I came down form heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”

John 6:48,51 – “I am that bread of life…if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”
John 7:28-29 – “…I am not come of myself…for I am from him, and he hath sent me.”

John 9:39 – “For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.”

John 10:10 – “I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.”

John 12:27 – “Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.”

John 12:46 – “I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.”

John 15:22 – “If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin.”

John 18:37 – “Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth.”

Jesus’ stated purposes for being in the there-and-then do not seem to support, or have anything to do with, Hell. Salvation, not damnation or even judgment, seems to be His overriding purpose.

a reply to: Lazarus Short

You are getting closer to the truth.

He was there to fulfill a promise to Israel that they would have a righteous king on the throne in a kingdom forever, that is why his gospel was called the Gospel of the Kingdom. And it was prophesied they would kill their prophesied King. But his death will not go without completion of underlying work of God.

After both Jesus (in the gospel books) and the Holy Ghost were rejected (In Acts 7) that kingdom was set aside.

Then God decided to give men, ALL MEN, the right to heaven not based on their works, good or bad, but solely by his Grace through Faith on Christ finished work on the cross. This is the gospel of the Grace of God which was given to Paul from Jesus to our current age.

Signs are now telling us that this age is coming to and end and God will once again perpare for setting up the promised kingdom.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Lazarus Short



Then God decided to give men, ALL MEN, the right to heaven not based on their works, good or bad, but solely by his Grace through Faith on Christ finished work on the cross. This is the gospel of the Grace of God which was given to Paul from Jesus to our current age.

You are also getting closer to the Truth. Given what you say above that I quoted, what keeps you back from being a Universalist? "ALL MEN" is rather inclusive, is it not?

a reply to: Lazarus Short

Yet not ALL MEN will not come through faith. Thereby excluding themselves from that gift of Everlasting life with God.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Lazarus Short

Yet not ALL MEN will not come through faith. Thereby excluding themselves from that gift of Everlasting life with God.

You are saying that mere men can deflect the purposes of almighty God. I find that absurd.

a reply to: Lazarus Short

Nope that is not what I am saying.

It is not God's will that any should perish.

But he has left that final decision up to each man, so that no one can accuse God of not being fair. Remember though that only applies in this chruch age. Some unknown time after Dec 21, 2020 that will change.

Eph 2:7-9 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
2Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Roman10:8-10 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

IF "It is not God's will that any should perish." then is the same God not able to carry His Own Will to completion? I think you give man's choice too much weight, for God's Will will be done on Earth, as it is in the Heavens.

a reply to: Lazarus Short

Do you think Hitler should be saved?

Do you think baby or child Rapist should be saved?

Do you think those who hijacked the planes that destroyed the World Trade Towers should be saved?