This is a compelling story!!! (Earth, Heaven, Hell)

a reply to: Itisnowagain

If there is then it is you that judges and condemns.

How? Where? Do you get that???

Can you show me where I have done that? please...

No sir that is the job of the most high GOD Almighty

Personally I judge no one for I know

Matthew 7: 1-2
1. Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again

But I think some people just wish, hope or think they will not be held accountable...

For the chosen (elect), the believers they will be forgiven and all there transgressions will be wiped away and washed in the blood of
Jesus Christ our Lord & Savior
If they believe in him, confess with their mouths, repent, and be baptized of the water, holy spirit, & fire they will be saved with no condemnation or judgment
(only judgement of their works,
not themselves)

But for the (nonbelievers)
in there wicked evil ways must be judged and condemned...

That's not me saying that...
the Holy Bible clearly states this...
So if you have a problem with GOD'S system you must take the matter up with the most high GOD Almighty...

But don't worry everyone will have the opportunity to stand before him eventually

a reply to: Lazarus Short

Yes, there is judgment, some condemnation, no damnation. The same God Who speaks of it also advises us not to judge before "the time."

Think about what you just said...

Judgment=
- to pass sentence on -
to act as judge - To form an opinion on

Condemnation=
(noun) - the expression of very strong disapproval
(Verb) - the action of condemning someone to a punishment; sentencing

Damnation=
- the state of being damned/condemned -
the act of damning/condemning

What does "some condemnation" mean?

And how can you have
"some condemnation"
Without any damnation?

GOD is the highest authority and ultimate Judge
GOD forms an opinion act's as judge and passes sentence onto the nonbeliever
Then GOD expresses very strong disapproval on whom he is judging
Then Act's on condemning someone to a punishment
Therefore said person is then in the state of Damnation
In the act / state of
Condemnation / Damnation

So Damnation is the result of Judgment & Condemnation

So what you're saying is that out of all the scriptures I gave on eternal
Judgment - Condemnation - Damnation

Your saying in reality they are just not true?
Or am I missing something?

Can you explain in your interpretation what all these scriptures mean?

Matthew 25: 44-46
Mark 9: 47-48
2 Thessalonians 1: 8-9
Jude 1: 7
Jude 1: 11-13
Revelation 14:9-11
Revelation 20: 10, 14-15

And many more

Can you even give one scripture to support your doctrine?

Besides
1 Corinthians 3: 10-15

Because we already established you took that out of context

As that scripture is speaking of a believer not a nonbeliever

And besides
Romans 14:11
Philippians 2:10–11
Isaiah 45:23

Because those scriptures are not saying there won't be
Condemnation / Damnation

They are simply saying every knee will bow...

Because everyone will stand before the judgment seat of Christ

And every tongue will confess to GOD
Every tongue will confess Jesus Christ is Lord
every tongue shall swear allegiance to GOD

because everything will be put under his authority
But that doesn't mean the nonbelievers won't be condemned

a reply to: DustybudzZ

One of the best tools I had in my quest for an answer to my trilemma (Damnation, Annihilation or Reconciliation was the trilemma.) were the center-column references in my KJV. It was not a "trick" Bible, just a very ordinary KJV that I picked up at an estate sale.

First clue: Genesis 1:1 - God made the heavens and the earth, with "hell" not mentioned. Because there is none...?

Second clue: The first mention of "hell" - the CCR (center-column reference) said, "or Sheol." Now "sheol" is simply the realm of the dead WITHOUT any Dante-esque ideas of punishment, fire or demons.

Third clue: I saw - repeatedly - "judgment" rendered as "condemnation" and "condemnation" rendered as "damnation." Looked like theo-illlogical bias to me.

That was early on, and I found no reason thereafter to doubt the "no hell" viewpoint, even in passages that gave me pause. Yes, there were a FEW that seemed to go over to the damnation or annihilation side, but the bulk of Scriptures are best seen from a universal reconciliation perspective.

Go ahead and post verses, for I am able to play proof-text ping pong all day if I choose to.

a reply to: DustybudzZ

So if they didn’t eat from the tree of life?

a reply to: Lazarus Short

Ok Laz but
What of the demons, eternal beings, where are they for eternity?
Humanity is not eternal so they are burned away like chaff in the unquenchable fire but demons are eternal, demons, the fallen, they are eternal so where do they go, are they reconciled as well?
Where do you get in the bible humanity is eternal, I can’t find that.
Even in heaven, humanity is sustained by Jesus Himself

Outside of Jesus there can be no life
delightinginchrist.com...

a reply to: Lazarus Short

but the bulk of Scriptures are best seen from a universal reconciliation perspective.

Yes for the believers

You do realize reconciliation, redemption, salvation,

Is for the believers right?

The (elect) the one's washed in the blood of Jesus Christ

a reply to: DustybudzZ
It's really about not believing.

If nothing is believed....... what is there??

The problem is that things are believed in.......and things are just thoughts, ideas and concepts that happen.

Examples of things that are believed in; me, god, salvation, time, other, some when else, somewhere else.

The belief in thoughts, ideas and concepts give rise to stories about someone in time (both someone and time are ideas/concepts).

That someone in time does not exist.

Only what is actually happening appears to exist......the one life.....always just this that is.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Lazarus Short

Ok Laz but
What of the demons, eternal beings, where are they for eternity?
Humanity is not eternal so they are burned away like chaff in the unquenchable fire but demons are eternal, demons, the fallen, they are eternal so where do they go, are they reconciled as well?
Where do you get in the bible humanity is eternal, I can’t find that.
Even in heaven, humanity is sustained by Jesus Himself

Outside of Jesus there can be no life
delightinginchrist.com...

"Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?" I Corinthians 6:3, KJV

As for the rest, the program of reconciliation is not finished yet, and I agree: no life is possible without Jesus the Christ, but remember that He gives rain to the just AND the unjust, and also finds the lost sheep.

originally posted by: DustybudzZ
a reply to: Lazarus Short

but the bulk of Scriptures are best seen from a universal reconciliation perspective.

Yes for the believers

You do realize reconciliation, redemption, salvation,

Is for the believers right?

The (elect) the one's washed in the blood of Jesus Christ

For believers? Were those things not mine when I was an atheist? God knew I would convert, so where does that leave your position??

Salvation is for the unsaved - does that not make sense?

Reconciliation is for the unreconciled - does that not make sense?

Redemption is for the unredeemed - does that not make sense?

Did Jesus the Christ not state that He came, not for the righteous, but for sinners? I do remember that He stated that the whores and tax collectors would enter the Kingdom before the Pharisees.

a reply to: Raggedyman

They didn't...
they had the choice to but they choose the alternative...

As a result we die...

But we can be redeemed

That's why Christ sacrifice himself for us

GOD fixed the problem of or choice
And gave a way out of death

As I have been saying this whole time we are mortal but only our flesh

But that doesn't mean GOD'S original creation "made in his image"
Was not immortal
And that his original plan was not for us to live forever

Why do you think we have a survival instinct?
Man was never supposed to die

Death came into the word through sin I don't see how you can read the Bible and believe it and not get this...

It actually says this in plain view...

Romans 5: 12
12. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

1 Corinthians 15: 21-22
21. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Where do you get in the bible humanity is eternal, I can’t find that

I have already shown you but you don't understand apparently

9. And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 
10. The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 
11. And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

unquenchable fire

That means forever (eternally)

Mark 9: 42-50
42. And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
43.And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44. Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46. Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
47. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: 48. Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
49. For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.
50. Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.

Is he not talking about man here?

Even in heaven, humanity is sustained by Jesus Himself

Outside of Jesus there can be no life

This is true...
But that's in a general sense like as in GOD sustains everything

Matthew 5: 45
45. That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

So even right now life is sustained by Jesus Christ

a reply to: Lazarus Short

Only because they removed the un-biblical apocrypha.

a reply to: Seede

 I doubt that you could accept any of that as scripture simply because of the new age movement teachings.

I do not follow any new age movement teachings...
I am holy spirit led
And yes I accept them as scripture

[read before and after and not just a verse].

This will never go anywhere if you are going to keep making assumptions

I read all of it...

But as I have said wherever you are getting it...
whatever Bible or apocryphal books or any literature period please present evidence and you have yet to do so

I already showed you in Isaiah where God will create a new heaven and earth. I showed you where this present earth and heaven will be clean dissolved. I showed you where God will build His city in the newly created earth. I showed you that that city is called New Jerusalem and I showed you in Revelation where the city [New Jerusalem] is restricted from sin coming into the city. [read before and after and not just a verse].

This I'll agree with because it's actually in scripture
No matter what someone's (actual perspective) on a "new heaven & earth" is

But...
What evidence or scriptural evidence or any evidence at all besides your own
Imagination & interpretation do you have for this?

I showed you that there are human children of flesh and blood who will live in the newly created earth outside of the city called New Jerusalem. Those children are given 100 years of life and then die. Some will be saved and some will be destroyed. This is all after this world is destroyed and all of this creation is dead. Who Are These Children?? Where Do They Come From??

You should now understand that the new celestial city New Jerusalem has no need for a sun

This I agree with and understand because it's actually in scripture

But...
Where is any evidence for this?

as I told you that time outside the city is marked by a moon. Just as the Hebrews today mark time with a moon so it is in the new creation.

I should just take your word for it because you said so???

Sorry you got to do better than that

Because your already making nonsense
In your other post you said

In the new heaven there will not be a sun but there will be a moon to mark motion. Time is not as many are taught. A happening will have order but no time. In other words there will not be time and motion but there will be motion and order of motion.

Now your saying this will only be outside the city???

And isn't Time just that?...
order of motion
relatively speaking
I mean GOD made time even an eternity is essentially time

By your definition what is
"order of motion"?

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Lazarus Short

Only because they removed the un-biblical apocrypha.

Naturally, once removed from the Bible, the material becomes [poof!] unbiblical. Do you have any more truisms?

a reply to: Lazarus Short

Were those things not mine when I was an atheist? 

Technically no...
But they had the possibility to become yours

God knew I would convert,

Exactly...

so where does that leave your position??

The same spot...

Salvation is for the unsaved - does that not make sense?

Reconciliation is for the unreconciled - does that not make sense?

Redemption is for the unredeemed - does that not make sense?

Makes perfect sense...

But without Jesus we are all
unsaved, unreconciled, unredeemed,
No matter what

Did Jesus the Christ not state that He came, not for the righteous, but for sinners? I do remember that He stated that the whores and tax collectors would enter the Kingdom before the Pharisees.

Yes but only if they accepted the truth
And let themselves be healed & cleaned...

Which in the end is ultimately up to GOD at his discretion

John 6: 44
44. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6: 64-65
64. But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
65. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

You must understand the omnipotence
Of GOD

There is only 2 different kinds of "unbelievers"...
and I'm not going to use the word "atheist" because someone who is a Buddhist or Muslim is not an "atheist"
But that doesn't mean they are redeemed and promised salvation...

But...
There are 2 kinds of "unbelievers"
Those who will never believe no matter what or until it's too late
(ie.) "not chosen"
And then those who don't believe, but eventually will someday
(ie.) GOD'S chosen (elect)

Either way GOD always already knows who is saved and who is not right now in this moment because GOD lives outside of time...
He knows all past, present, & future.

Romans 9: 11-13
11. (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
12. It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

a reply to: Lazarus Short

God made the heavens and the earth, with "hell" not mentioned. Because there is none...?

Your right GOD in the beginning didn't create hell...
But that does not mean it doesn't exist
Hell is not just a "place"

Man created it when with sin

So hell is a result of sin &
hell essentially is sin

James 3: 6
6. And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

So our words can set hellfire (sin)

Hell is to be cut off from GOD...
(ie.) Walk/talk in the flesh

Right now hell is on earth

it will become a literal place in the end as a place to "contain" sin/evil/wickedness

To become completely cut off from GOD

You see GOD is the light without light there is only darkness

Jesus Christ brought the light back into our reach

a reply to: Seede

Are you talking about the 1000 year rain???

Revelation 20: 6
6. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

a reply to: DustybudzZ

All you did there was prove the “fire” of hell was eternal
Tell me to study the bible and you can’t comprehend basic English

Have another go, just don’t cut your foot off, it’s not a command

originally posted by: Lazarus Short

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Lazarus Short

Ok Laz but
What of the demons, eternal beings, where are they for eternity?
Humanity is not eternal so they are burned away like chaff in the unquenchable fire but demons are eternal, demons, the fallen, they are eternal so where do they go, are they reconciled as well?
Where do you get in the bible humanity is eternal, I can’t find that.
Even in heaven, humanity is sustained by Jesus Himself

Outside of Jesus there can be no life
delightinginchrist.com...

"Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?" I Corinthians 6:3, KJV

As for the rest, the program of reconciliation is not finished yet, and I agree: no life is possible without Jesus the Christ, but remember that He gives rain to the just AND the unjust, and also finds the lost sheep.

What? Seriously, what has judging angels got to do with anything?
Just totally ignore my question with a random, irrelevant statement

I don’t care about rain, just, unjust or judging angels

Answer the question or at least deal with it like an adult, not smoke and mirror answers irrelevant

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Considering you didn't even answer my first question to your ignorant assumptive comment that held no veracity whatsoever...

I'll bite

It's really about not believing.

If nothing is believed....... what is there??

The problem is that things are believed in.......and things are just thoughts, ideas and concepts that happen.

Examples of things that are believed in; me, god, salvation, time, other, some when else, somewhere else.

The belief in thoughts, ideas and concepts give rise to stories about someone in time (both someone and time are ideas/concepts).

That someone in time does not exist.

Only what is actually happening appears to exist......the one life.....always just this that is.

Look I realize that you "think" your "attempting" to make an "intelligently" "thought out" "clever" "philosophical" argument...

But there is just one little problem with your logic...

Do you exist?

Examples of things that are believed in; me,

That someone in time does not exist.

Now I can only assume the big takeaway you was expecting everyone to get from all this was that
Jesus Christ didn't exist
Hence GOD doesn't exist
Right?

But there is a little thing called documentation of historical
facts & figures

Now you, may not be significant enough to document down into historical records...

But Jesus Christ was...very much so.

All professional historians & scholars All agree that Jesus Christ of Nazareth
Actually existed in the first century AD, was and is a real true historical figure,

Who's life, teachings, death, & resurrection,
were all well documented and proven to be true which is why they are part of the historical record...

And I'm not just talking about Biblical records. Although they are the most reliable...

But to prove unbiased...
There are atleast 8 or 9 different non Biblical sources that document the history of Jesus Christ in the historical record

So if you're trying to say Jesus Christ didn't exist your just 100% wrong and sound uneducated

Only what is actually happening appears to exist......the one life.....always just this that is.

Do you know why Jesus said in...

John 14: 6
6. Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life.

?

Jesus Christ is the only WAY
because he is the only WAY to the Father & true salvation...
Jesus Christ is the only TRUTH because everything he said & did
was the only TRUTH...
Jesus Christ is the only LIFE
Because we are supposed to emulate our lives after his, we should live our LIFE just like he did with true love & compassion...so we my have a real LIFE with meaning a peaceful LIFE a happy LIFE...
A LIFE whilst we live that leads to true salvation so we may have true LIFE after death...

& what is love???

John 15: 13
13. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

4. Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud
5. or rude. It does not demand its own way. It is not irritable, and it keeps no record of being wronged.
6. It does not rejoice about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out.
7. Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance.