This is a compelling story!!! (Earth, Heaven, Hell)

The whole story & message of the
Holy Bible is the unity of
Heaven & Earth.

What do you think,
when you think about
"Heaven & Hell"?
What is does life after death
mean for you?

What we think we know about
"Heaven & Hell"
might actually just be
preconceived conceptions instilled in our minds from childhood, church & false teachings

"we need to re-read our Bibles again with a fresh set of eyes"

Watch this 30 minute long video it's very interesting and it is quite compelling

Let me know what you think please

a reply to: DustybudzZ

How about a.quick rundown of the video or was that part of your OP?

He pulls off a clever re-definition of "Hell," but the place does not exist, except in the imaginations of damnationists.

8

originally posted by: Lazarus Short
He pulls off a clever re-definition of "Hell," but the place does not exist, except in the imaginations of damnationists.

Not quite...

At the end of the video he does touch on essentially what hell is...

As he says "look at the last part of the Bible"...

And how hell is GOD'S monument to human dignity

And that GOD will simply honor the decision of someone who refuses to be healed by Jesus Christ...
by separating those from him who reject him and want nothing to do with him anyway

In other words he is just giving them what they want...

If we desire to be with GOD and in his presence... then we will spend eternity in the "new heaven & earth"
(earth returned to it's former glory)

If we don't desire GOD we will spend eternity separated from GOD
"existing outside the city"

As he said... the Bible just doesn't go into detail to explain exactly what "hell" will look like...

Except... weeping, gnashing of teeth,
no sleep & a firey furness / lake of fire...

Hell is a creation for immortal beings to be sent away from Gods presence, fallen immortals, demons and satan itself
Humanity are not immortal so, hell can not be eternal for humanity

Hell is to be “in” a relationship with God
Hell, to be outside of it

The Jews didn’t believe in eternal life or a hereafter, it was a Greek teaching
Jesus came back from death, changing everything

originally posted by: DustybudzZ
8

originally posted by: Lazarus Short
He pulls off a clever re-definition of "Hell," but the place does not exist, except in the imaginations of damnationists.

Not quite...

At the end of the video he does touch on essentially what hell is...

As he says "look at the last part of the Bible"...

And how hell is GOD'S monument to human dignity

And that GOD will simply honor the decision of someone who refuses to be healed by Jesus Christ...
by separating those from him who reject him and want nothing to do with him anyway

In other words he is just giving them what they want...

If we desire to be with GOD and in his presence... then we will spend eternity in the "new heaven & earth"
(earth returned to it's former glory)

If we don't desire GOD we will spend eternity separated from GOD
"existing outside the city"

As he said... the Bible just doesn't go into detail to explain exactly what "hell" will look like...

Except... weeping, gnashing of teeth,
no sleep & a firey furness / lake of fire...

The fellow in the video and the end of the Revelation do not give us the end of the story. For that, look in First Corinthians, chapter 15, where we do see the end of the story, leading up to the Son returning the Kingdom to His Father, in which God the Father is All in all. The last enemy, death, has by that time been defeated, so there are no more enemies, and ALL are reconciled to God. The video narrator is on the right track, but not bold enough to proclaim the Truth - he just appears so.

2Tim 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

Chester John, I put the video's stance on "hell" in that category. I can only suppose you accept "hell" as a given, even though the word and concept are not to be found in the Hebrew or Greek documents on which your Bible and mine are based.

a reply to: Lazarus Short

Can you prove your Hebrew and Greek documents are the ORIGINALS? Can YOU prove they are the ORIGINALS? And can you prove they are correct and accurate if you don't have the ORIGINALS?

I will stick with the English of the KJB.

Chester John, as you KJVO peeps say, we don't need the ORIGINALS. Why? Because, as Ivan Panin discovered, the mathematical coding of the text enables us to reconstruct the ORIGINAL wording with precision - every jot and tittle. God did preserve His Word, but not like you think.

a reply to: Lazarus Short

I am not a KJVO person.

You are the one who claims to have Greek and Hebrew. So how do you know they are correct? Which Hebrew and Greek do you have? How do you verify the accuracy?

If math then Based on what math?

Chinese math? Hebrew math? Egyptian Math? Babylonian Math? Sumerian Math? Modern Math?

You need to remember their measurements were different and their equations were different? Math is like all the post 1611 versions of the Bible they don't agree and all you get is confusion.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Lazarus Short

I am not a KJVO person.

You are the one who claims to have Greek and Hebrew. So how do you know they are correct? Which Hebrew and Greek do you have? How do you verify the accuracy?

If math then Based on what math?

Chinese math? Hebrew math? Egyptian Math? Babylonian Math? Sumerian Math? Modern Math?

You need to remember their measurements were different and their equations were different? Math is like all the post 1611 versions of the Bible they don't agree and all you get is confusion.

Keep sputtering there, CJ...

a reply to: DustybudzZ

If we desire to be with GOD and in his presence... then we will spend eternity in the "new heaven & earth" (earth returned to it's former glory)

Very clever but not buying into it. Sounds to me like the renewal philosophy which is not in the doctrine of the Christ Jesus. The earth was cursed and sentenced to die and all of the universe is earth and all therein will likewise perish.

Isaiah 24:19-21
(19) The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
(20) The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.
(21) And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.

2Peter 3:10 -12
(10) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
(11) Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
(12) Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

The earth does not return to its former glory. The entire 2nd creation [earth] will vaporize into its death.

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

f we don't desire GOD we will spend eternity separated from GOD "existing outside the city"

In the created new heaven and new earth the city of the new creation is the New Jerusalem where the trees and water of eternal life are located in its paradise. Out side of this celestial city is the new earth where the unfortunate were not not given a chance for salvation and will be given 100 years in the flesh and then die the same as all flesh dies. [read and study the 65 chapter of Isaiah]

This has nothing to do with the unjustified who were in hell and then placed in the lake of ethereal [heavenly] fire. There is only one judgment of a spirit and then either permanent reward or punishment. No second chance. This life is the only chance you get.

a reply to: Lazarus Short

Chester John, as you KJVO peeps say, we don't need the ORIGINALS. Why? Because, as Ivan Panin discovered, the mathematical coding of the text enables us to reconstruct the ORIGINAL wording with precision - every jot and tittle.

Really surprised with your theology Lazarus. Ivan was a Russian agnostic who was actually a man who accepted the New Testament Greek literature which was found in a monastary trash can. Yes, it was the same garbage that Westcott and Hort used in their bible bashing life and that most all modern bibles today use. So who were Westcott and Hort? They hated the KJV bible and communicated with the dead in their Ghostly Guild organization. They both did not believe in a literal heaven and lived in commune style. I could go on and on but you get my point.

That is why Chester tried to tell you that you have the garbage pile for trying to understand the beauty of scholarship and true Christian understanding found in the KJV translation.

a reply to: Seede

At least the KJB has ALL the verses in it with all the meanings of all the versions out there today found in the English words employed by the translators of the KJB.


The real issue is belief. If only people would believed what it says, where it says it, how it say it to whom it says it.

Funky fact, the word Hell isn't ever actually used, due to it having "EL" in it which is an old word for "God", and might of been from the Nordics( Hel from Norse), an later adopted by the english.

There are names for it an usually involves the Underworld, like Sheol an Hades being used interchangeably. Or descriptions of eternal damnation, like the Lake of Fire, while even Tartarus is used by Paul in the N.T.

There also Gehenna, and is mentioned by Jesus in a version of the Talmud. Basically was a pit of fire where human feces, trash an criminals were thrown into, but it never existed.

Another funky fact, Hades was more worshipped then Zeus.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Humanity are not immortal so, hell can not be eternal for humanity

According to whom?

Our flesh (ie) (our bodies) are mortal,
But our souls & spirits are not...

Our Bodies are just a vessel for our souls/spirits

Which is why the bible says we will get a "bodily redemption"
And we will have glorified bodies

originally posted by: DustybudzZ
a reply to: Raggedyman

Humanity are not immortal so, hell can not be eternal for humanity

According to whom?

Our flesh (ie) (our bodies) are mortal,
But our souls & spirits are not...

Our Bodies are just a vessel for our souls/spirits

Which is why the bible says we will get a "bodily redemption"
And we will have glorified bodies

The Bible also states, "For he that is dead is freed from sin." -Romans 6:7, KJV

CJ, the current KJV has fewer verses than the 1611, as I understand that the 1611 had the Apocrypha. What do you say about that?

a reply to: Lazarus Short

The fellow in the video and the end of the Revelation do not give us the end of the story. For that, look in First Corinthians, chapter 15, where we do see the end of the story, leading up to the Son returning the Kingdom to His Father, in which God the Father is All in all. The last enemy, death, has by that time been defeated, so there are no more enemies, and ALL are reconciled to God. The video narrator is on the right track, but not bold enough to proclaim the Truth - he just appears so.

So your preaching a hyper grace doctrine correct???
(ALL will be saved) is what your saying right?

Because if so that's not consistent with scripture

Can you elaborate how 1 Corinthians 15: 24-27
Proclaims a hyper grace doctrine?

KJV
1 Corinthians 15: 24-27
24. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27. For he hath put all things under his feet.

NLT
1 Corinthians 15: 24-27
24. After that the end will come, when he will turn the Kingdom over to God the Father, having destroyed every ruler and authority and power.
25. For Christ must reign until he humbles all his enemies beneath his feet.
26. And the last enemy to be destroyed is death.
27. For the Scriptures say, “God has put all things under his authority.”

So we see it simply says GOD has put all things under his authority...

Not

ALL are reconciled to God

And All will be saved

scripture is not consistent with the hyper grace doctrine sorry it's just not
I can give many scriptural examples if you like but let me ask you this...

If all will be saved...

When on the cross, why did Jesus say
"today you will be with me in paradise" to only the man who said
"remember me when you come into your kingdom"
And not to both men?

You see there has to be a contrast for us to fully understand & appreciate GOD'S gift of grace, mercy & salvation and who he is

And Luke 23: 39-43 is an illustration of that contrast

The same reason Jesus said in...

(KVJ) John 8: 42-47
42. Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46. Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47. He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

(NLT) John 8: 42-47
42. Jesus told them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, because I have come to you from God. I am not here on my own, but he sent me.
43. Why can’t you understand what I am saying? It’s because you can’t even hear me!
44. For you are the children of your father the devil, and you love to do the evil things he does. He was a murderer from the beginning. He has always hated the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, it is consistent with his character; for he is a liar and the father of lies.
45. So when I tell the truth, you just naturally don’t believe me!
46. Which of you can truthfully accuse me of sin? And since I am telling you the truth, why don’t you believe me?
47.Anyone who belongs to God listens gladly to the words of God. But you don’t listen because you don’t belong to God.”