There is no actual evidence of voter fraud; here's how we know:

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: johnnylaw16


Happy to provide a response but I'm not sure I understand what you are asking here--Are you asking why wouldn't Trump submit evidence of fraud in court, or something else?

Yeah the information they presented to the Arizona legislature seems like a big deal even if 1/10th of it is true... So what would be the hold up to present that to a court? Can you show how you know they didn't present this information to a court?

Didn't that one go against Trump too? Any evidence that has been brought to the court has been dismissed by Rep and Dem judges alike.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: yuppa

Any fraud? What, even just a tiny one? To disenfranchise millions of votes?

Come off it, have a sense of perspective.

There were 2 Reps who tried to use their dead Mothers' votes, maybe they think the election should be overturned for them?

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: yuppa

Any fraud? What, even just a tiny one? To disenfranchise millions of votes?

Someone literally just testified in Arizona that 1.9 million votes didn't have signature authentication.

They can testify all they want. But for it to be authentic there has to be proof, not he said/she said...

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: johnnylaw16


I can't say for certain that new stuff won't come out, but the point is that they have been claiming to have this bombshell evidence since the first lawsuits were filed weeks ago, but they have never put any of it forward in court. Moreover, as I explained in the OP, that can't present evidence later. Only trial courts hear new evidence--the trial courts are where the facts of the case are determined. The appellate courts (including the supreme court) are generally limited to questions of law (e.g., what does the law actually mean/say), not fact (i.e., what actually occurred here), and by not submitting evidence to the trial court, Trump waives his right to introduce that evidence to a later appellate court.

Since multiple prongs of lawsuits are occurring, would the evidence from all the various trial courts across the nation be able to be conglomerated for a hearing from the higher courts?

a reply to: johnnylaw16

Also, can you point me to where I can read what they have presented in court?

I've seen either Care or Xetro claim that all this evidence is being compiled for some Mighty Megazord case at the end.

I actually wanted to ask johnnylaw16 if that's even possible?

originally posted by: murphy22
There's more "evidence" just by casual observation, basic math, and educated intuition. To know/believe that this "election" was more "interfered with", than any election in American history! Other than the "vote" for passing of the 16th. amendment (I don't expect you to know the c.o.t.u.s. or Ameican history.

How would that work? I mean, Trump made sure that the Reps were suspicious of the mail in ballots and ballot counts, this election was the most watched election in US history. Everyone knew they were under intense scrutiny.

It would have been harder to commit voter fraud in this election than any in modern times.

originally posted by: BruceZuckerberg

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: BruceZuckerberg

Good luck with that?!!!!!! Give it up, man. It's over.

The fact that the lawsuits continue indicates to me that it is not over.

"President Donald Trump’s campaign is working on two fronts, Trump’s lawyer Rudy Giuliani said Friday: legal battles and state legislatures.
“The objective here is twofold. One is to get the right case to the Supreme Court. And we’ve got four or five of them that are headed there. And also to try to convince the legislators that they shouldn’t certify false statements, they shouldn’t certify completely bogus vote counts,” Giuliani said during a virtual appearance on One America News."

Trumps lawsuits are all part of his act ,(remember he's a Reality TV Star), he knows how to stay in the public eye and make everything about him.

originally posted by: BruceZuckerberg

originally posted by: johnnylaw16

originally posted by: BruceZuckerberg

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: BruceZuckerberg

Good luck with that?!!!!!! Give it up, man. It's over.

The fact that the lawsuits continue indicates to me that it is not over.

"President Donald Trump’s campaign is working on two fronts, Trump’s lawyer Rudy Giuliani said Friday: legal battles and state legislatures.
“The objective here is twofold. One is to get the right case to the Supreme Court. And we’ve got four or five of them that are headed there. And also to try to convince the legislators that they shouldn’t certify false statements, they shouldn’t certify completely bogus vote counts,” Giuliani said during a virtual appearance on One America News."

To be clear there are not four or five lawsuits heading to the supreme court, and probably none that are actually being presented by Trump.

You may be right. Even Trump is a realist.. toronto.citynews.ca...

Isn't it telling that you had to go to a Canadian paper to find that?

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: murphy22
That's only "evidence" for "no evidence"... It really doesn't settle the case. Not sure which side you're on.

It is as simple as this. You're either for or against investigating whether or not there was fraud in this election. The machines are easily tampered with. The mail in ballots have an abundance of potential fraud as well. Everyone should be for investigating the validity of our election...

It's as simple as this, either there is actual provable evidence that can be brought to court, or there isn't. The facts are the facts.

And the other fact is, only Reps have been caught committing voter fraud so far.

originally posted by: JusticeIsComing
a reply to: johnnylaw16

I appreciate what you're trying to do here man. These posts are well written, factual and precise.

But you'd have a better chance of successfully teaching my 4-month-olds C++ programming than getting anyone here to understand this whole thing is just a fantasy put on by Trump to salvage his crumbling brand after he's no longer in office.

So it's obvious to you too then? I don't understand why so many are blind to this.

He has a long que of debtors and lawsuits salivating for Jan 15th so they can start tearing him to shreds.

He deserves no better, you reap what you sow.

So we are 29 pages deep and not 1 person has been able to disprove the OP?

As it stands the only 2 cases of Voter Fraud that have resulted in prosecution are those of those 2 Reps who both used their dead mothers' vote.

Through the course of this thread Arizona and Wisconsin have also gone to Biden.

Someone stick a fork in Trump, he's done...

originally posted by: Murgatroid

originally posted by: johnnylaw16

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: johnnylaw16
He has lost this battle. That is the point of the thread. If there were any legitimate evidence of fraud, we would see it put forth by Trump. He has not put it forward. Do you have any cogent response to this fact?

Yes. You are deluding yourself.

But don't worry, your delusion will be exposed soon.

Tick-tock.

I'd love to make a friendly wager. At what point do you think that Trump will be declared our next president?

On January 20 he will be confirmed, by the 18th, it will be VERY clear that Trump has won. tanstaafl was right BTW, you ARE deluding yourself, honestly I think you already KNOW this though. The MSM lost ALL credibility on election night 2016. The same thing will be happening right here on January 20. One would have to be EXTREMELY gullible to believe anything else they have to say. That single reason ALONE causes me to disregard everything you have said here on ATS so far...

Lol, ok. Let’s just remember this bet. What are you going to do when you are proven wrong?

And just out of curiosity, how do you envision this epic reversal of fates taking place? Court case? Legislatures? Military Coup?

Also, what does anything I have said have to do with the media? I’m not talking about media reporting—I’m talking about verifiable facts concerning trump’s legal cases. No faith in the media is needed to believe or verify that I am correct.

originally posted by: johnnylaw16
And just out of curiosity, how do you envision this epic reversal of fates taking place? Court case? Legislatures? Military Coup?

Divine intervention.

A dead born again Christian preacher predicted it. This is not a joke. Repeat, this is not a joke.

originally posted by: Doctor Smith

originally posted by: johnnylaw16

originally posted by: CryHavoc

originally posted by: JusticeIsComing
...this whole thing is just a fantasy put on by Trump to salvage his crumbling brand after he's no longer in office.

But it's not. This is a response to how he was treated in November 2016 and after.

I'm waiting for someone to say: "Not My President-Elect" in retaliation. He was Sh!t on for 4 years. Whether he deserved it or not isn't the point. I didn't vote for him - but he deserved respect as President of the United States of America.


And some of the Sabotage was almost Treason.

I've already posted some of the stuff. But I want to point out one particular problem: If someone talks about Kamala Harris' hair like they talked about Pence's hair, there will be cries of Sexism and Racism.

I will bet you good money.

Not sure how any of this is relevant. Trump hasn’t put forward evidence of fraud in court but keeps ranting and raving about it outside of court. That should raise a red flag for anyone inclined to believe his claims of fraud.

You know that theory.......... When you keep saying the big lie (no proof of election fraud) enough times people are suppose to be brainwashed and believe you. Well I'm here to tell you..................It doesn't work. You're sounding very deranged.

I think most here would disagree with you. Everything I have said can be verified. Indeed, I’ve repeatedly called on my doubters and nay-sayers to post links to anything that they believe calls into question any of my statements. No one has successfully done so. I challenge you to do the same if you think that I am wrong.

But as I told another: a tell-tale sign that one lacks the mental fortitude and/or facts to defend their position is that they start attacking their opponent, not his ideas.

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: johnnylaw16


I can't say for certain that new stuff won't come out, but the point is that they have been claiming to have this bombshell evidence since the first lawsuits were filed weeks ago, but they have never put any of it forward in court. Moreover, as I explained in the OP, that can't present evidence later. Only trial courts hear new evidence--the trial courts are where the facts of the case are determined. The appellate courts (including the supreme court) are generally limited to questions of law (e.g., what does the law actually mean/say), not fact (i.e., what actually occurred here), and by not submitting evidence to the trial court, Trump waives his right to introduce that evidence to a later appellate court.

Since multiple prongs of lawsuits are occurring, would the evidence from all the various trial courts across the nation be able to be conglomerated for a hearing from the higher courts?

a reply to: johnnylaw16

Also, can you point me to where I can read what they have presented in court?

I've seen either Care or Xetro claim that all this evidence is being compiled for some Mighty Megazord case at the end.

I actually wanted to ask johnnylaw16 if that's even possible?

No, there isn’t one court that would have jurisdiction over all of the claims from various different states. Besides, Trump increases his off by going to different judges that one of them will be sympathetic enough to let him proceed.

originally posted by: johnnylaw16

originally posted by: Murgatroid

originally posted by: johnnylaw16

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: johnnylaw16
He has lost this battle. That is the point of the thread. If there were any legitimate evidence of fraud, we would see it put forth by Trump. He has not put it forward. Do you have any cogent response to this fact?

Yes. You are deluding yourself.

But don't worry, your delusion will be exposed soon.

Tick-tock.

I'd love to make a friendly wager. At what point do you think that Trump will be declared our next president?

On January 20 he will be confirmed, by the 18th, it will be VERY clear that Trump has won. tanstaafl was right BTW, you ARE deluding yourself, honestly I think you already KNOW this though. The MSM lost ALL credibility on election night 2016. The same thing will be happening right here on January 20. One would have to be EXTREMELY gullible to believe anything else they have to say. That single reason ALONE causes me to disregard everything you have said here on ATS so far...

Lol, ok. Let’s just remember this bet. What are you going to do when you are proven wrong?

And just out of curiosity, how do you envision this epic reversal of fates taking place? Court case? Legislatures? Military Coup?

Also, what does anything I have said have to do with the media? I’m not talking about media reporting—I’m talking about verifiable facts concerning trump’s legal cases. No faith in the media is needed to believe or verify that I am correct.

The odds of me actually being WRONG here is pretty dang slim here, so being proven wrong never really entered my mind to be honest. I was in a hurry and forgot to explain the MSM thing. I only brought it up because it is very relevant. Don't take it as a dig, it's not. The MSM is no less of a criminal tool than Dominion. Everything you've been saying is identical to what the MSM has been saying. This is a HUGE red flag to me which is why I brought up election night 2016. I have no interest in being right here, I'm just saying, if you believe what the MSM has been saying, you are GOING to be very deceived. Now you might even BELIEVE that the media has no influence on how you perceive this situation, and I'm sure that will be your response, good luck convincing anyone of that though.

What YOU have been doing here on ATS is exactly what the MSM have been doing... whether you're aware of it or not, just like many others on ATS, so don't take it personally. My only question is WHY the gullibility? This is WHY I brought up the MSM BTW... It kills all credibility, plain and simple. The MSM was wrong in 2016, they are wrong in 2020, they are ALWAYS freaking wrong...

Concerning the path to victory, the SC throwing the election to Congress appears to be the most likely but I have no idea on how that will play out.

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: yuppa

Any fraud? What, even just a tiny one? To disenfranchise millions of votes?

Come off it, have a sense of perspective.

There were 2 Reps who tried to use their dead Mothers' votes, maybe they think the election should be overturned for them?

Yes. ANY FRAUD.

a reply to: yuppa

2 fraudulent votes should overturn the US election?!

Come on. Be serious.

This is clutching at straws and, frankly, insane.

originally posted by: Murgatroid

originally posted by: johnnylaw16

originally posted by: Murgatroid

originally posted by: johnnylaw16

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: johnnylaw16
He has lost this battle. That is the point of the thread. If there were any legitimate evidence of fraud, we would see it put forth by Trump. He has not put it forward. Do you have any cogent response to this fact?

Yes. You are deluding yourself.

But don't worry, your delusion will be exposed soon.

Tick-tock.

I'd love to make a friendly wager. At what point do you think that Trump will be declared our next president?

On January 20 he will be confirmed, by the 18th, it will be VERY clear that Trump has won. tanstaafl was right BTW, you ARE deluding yourself, honestly I think you already KNOW this though. The MSM lost ALL credibility on election night 2016. The same thing will be happening right here on January 20. One would have to be EXTREMELY gullible to believe anything else they have to say. That single reason ALONE causes me to disregard everything you have said here on ATS so far...

Lol, ok. Let’s just remember this bet. What are you going to do when you are proven wrong?

And just out of curiosity, how do you envision this epic reversal of fates taking place? Court case? Legislatures? Military Coup?

Also, what does anything I have said have to do with the media? I’m not talking about media reporting—I’m talking about verifiable facts concerning trump’s legal cases. No faith in the media is needed to believe or verify that I am correct.

The odds of me actually being WRONG here is pretty dang slim here, so being proven wrong never really entered my mind to be honest. I was in a hurry and forgot to explain the MSM thing. I only brought it up because it is very relevant. Don't take it as a dig, it's not. The MSM is no less of a criminal tool than Dominion. Everything you've been saying is identical to what the MSM has been saying. This is a HUGE red flag to me which is why I brought up election night 2016. I have no interest in being right here, I'm just saying, if you believe what the MSM has been saying, you are GOING to be very deceived. Now you might even BELIEVE that the media has no influence on how you perceive this situation, and I'm sure that will be your response, good luck convincing anyone of that though.

What YOU have been doing here on ATS is exactly what the MSM have been doing... whether you're aware of it or not, just like many others on ATS, so don't take it personally. My only question is WHY the gullibility? This is WHY I brought up the MSM BTW... It kills all credibility, plain and simple. The MSM was wrong in 2016, they are wrong in 2020, they are ALWAYS freaking wrong...

Concerning the path to victory, the SC throwing the election to Congress appears to be the most likely but I have no idea on how that will play out.

I have to hand it to you: your confidence is astounding, given that no court has credited a single claim of voter fraud to date. Though I think you estimation of the odds leaves something to be desired—more and more states are certifying their results, and none of Trumps lawsuits are gaining any traction. Tick tock. Trump has little time and even fewer (read: zero) options to turn this ship around.

Your media rant is still without merit. My analysis is based off years of experience as a litigator in state and federal court. I know how these processes work, and all that I have said can be verified.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: yuppa

2 fraudulent votes should overturn the US election?!

Come on. Be serious.

This is clutching at straws and, frankly, insane.

Actually that a great idea but only if backdated to 2016...

a reply to: johnnylaw16

Your media rant is still without merit. My analysis is based off years of experience as a litigator in state and federal court. I know how these processes work, and all that I have said can be verified.

You have to have your head buried deep in the sand not to see all the voter fraud right in front of your face and if you’re an attorney, you’re not a very good one. Anyone with half a brain cell can see there’s massive fraud being perpetrated on the American people. You’re being complicit as complicit can be.