There is no actual evidence of voter fraud; here's how we know:

originally posted by: vonclod
a reply to: mtnshredder

It’s not often that someone comes forth with damning info, with absolutely nothing to gain and everything to lose and who knowingly and willfully commits perjury upon themselves. That just doesn’t happen that often and to my understanding there’s hundreds of people coming forward saying this was a fraudulent and rigged election. Why? Because they were there and saw with their own eyes that this was anything but a fair election.

I'm not going to say that anything is true, or not true..but people see stuff, they don't understand, and make conclusions..jm2c

Very true. Some of the witnesses I’ve heard were meh at best and based on assumptions. There’s also many I heard that knew exactly what they were seeing, they’re not all a bunch of idiots, some are very credible and knew how the legal process should work.

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: yuppa

Any fraud? What, even just a tiny one? To disenfranchise millions of votes?

Come off it, have a sense of perspective.

There were 2 Reps who tried to use their dead Mothers' votes, maybe they think the election should be overturned for them?

Yes. ANY FRAUD.

With 250 million potential voters, not possible, and that is a fact.., you dont throw the baby out with the bathwater. You deal with the fraud.

In your world, you do what..install a dictator?

No.Make it a holiday. All votes should be paper ballots,with a FINGERPRINT. Cant fake fingerprints on a large scale.

originally posted by: BruceZuckerberg

originally posted by: johnnylaw16

originally posted by: mtnshredder
a reply to: johnnylaw16

Your media rant is still without merit. My analysis is based off years of experience as a litigator in state and federal court. I know how these processes work, and all that I have said can be verified.

You have to have your head buried deep in the sand not to see all the voter fraud right in front of your face and if you’re an attorney, you’re not a very good one. Anyone with half a brain cell can see there’s massive fraud being perpetrated on the American people. You’re being complicit as complicit can be.

Allow me to introduce you to my other thread where William Barr (Trump's AG) has confirmed that there is no evidence of mass voter fraud: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Do you consider the phony polling data from 2016 and 2020 evidence of collusion against Trump ? Let's face it they were so far off that you have to at least consider the possibility they were suppression polls- designed to lower turnout. What about the non-stop hysterical tirade from the Media against Trump ? Or the suppression of conservatives on Social Media ? All these aspects conformed to hurt Trump. Are these not a form of election fraud ?

It's certainly not election fraud in any sense of the word.

The polls were wrong. Hard to say whom it helped and whom it hurt. You could just as easily argue that polls showing a strong Biden lead led to complacency among Biden voters and galvanized Trump voters (indeed, this seems more likely).

The media "tirade" on Trump is far from condemnable. Trump did a lot of controversial stuff that a lot of the country did not like. The media has a duty to report on that. And he had Fox news there to be his cheerleader throughout.

Social media is suppressing conservatives. It is suppressing falsehood and unverified dribble presented as facts. It so happens that most of that is being perpetuated by people that support conservative causes. But you will find that conservative voices are still loudly speaking across social media, including Trump himself.

originally posted by: randomthoughts12
a reply to: johnnylaw16
I believe they said they found none that would change the outcome not that there isn't any.

Look, my posts are based on my actual experience litigating before these courts. You don't squirrel your evidence away, and you don't parade it on TV. You put it in your pleadings so that you can win.

Imagine this: You have a high-paying, powerful job that you worked for years to get. Someone tells you that you're going to loose your job unless you can prove to a court that you have a legal right to stay in your job. Luckily for you, you have fool-proof evidence that you have a legal right to maintain your job. Now do you:

(a) Go on tv and talk about all of the evidence you have and hold lots of hearings and brag about your evidence, BUT not put it forward in court for the judge to see; or

(b) Put it in front of a judge so that you can win your case?

Trump has gone with option (a). Make of that what you will.

Taking your points in turn:

As to point 1, I am not choosing to be willfully blind to the "evidence." They are not putting in front of a judge where it can be tested under legal scrutiny. Once they do that, we will all have a better sense of the legitimacy of the evidence. They are the ones preventing their "evidence" from being scrutinized.

Point 2: See point 1. If there were any validity, they would put the matter before a judge. End. Of. Story.

Point 3: His challenges to date do not concern fraud. Trump is not alleging mass voter fraud in any case to date, and has put forth no evidence of such. The rulings in cases thus far have involved much more pedantic topics on the validity of certain laws and practices, and none has been successful.

originally posted by: johnnylaw16

originally posted by: mtnshredder
a reply to: johnnylaw16

to my understanding there’s hundreds of people coming forward saying this was a fraudulent and rigged election.

Yes, to "your" uninformed "understanding" it probably does look like there is an avalanche of evidence amassing. Trump talks about it every day. Rudy sits there and tells you up and down that they have hundreds--no thousands--of affidavits attesting to election fraud. It's just inconceivable that people like me can't see it. That is, until you scrutinize things a bit more.

Here a few points to consider:

- Though I've said this ad nauseam, if there were any credible evidence of voter fraud, Trump would be putting it forward in court. He is not. That is the first and most important indicator that evidence of fraud does not exist and Trump does not have the evidence that he claims to have outside of court.
- But then why have all of these people come forward? They can't all be liars, can they? No. Some, likely are liars, spurred on by Trump's incessant calls for evidence and feeling that they will help him by attesting to falsehoods (like the guy claiming that votes for Trump were weighted at less than vote for Biden--that's a lie). Most are testifying not to evidence of fraud but rather "fishy" things that I saw. So-and-so put an ballot in a wrong pile. I saw a van pull up where it shouldn't have been. People weren't doing things as I understand that they should have been done. I saw someone sketchy doing something that looked sketchy. I wasn't allowed to get as close to the person I was monitoring as I think that I should have been.. These people probably do believe that they witnessed something nefarious or potentially nefarious, but in reality just don't understand what they saw.
- How do I know that this is the case--I wasn't there, I don't know what they did or didn't see? True. But see point one. Trump has a team of highly-compensated, well-educated attorneys. They are scouring through this evidence, wading through the bull#, looking for anything that they can hold up in court. Yet, they have found nothing to put forward in court. Why is that? See point 2, the evidence isn't what is claimed.

Well my “uninformed” mind does know these hearings are more for gathering evidence than presenting it to a court of law. So there’s that....

originally posted by: mtnshredder

originally posted by: johnnylaw16

originally posted by: mtnshredder
a reply to: johnnylaw16

to my understanding there’s hundreds of people coming forward saying this was a fraudulent and rigged election.

Yes, to "your" uninformed "understanding" it probably does look like there is an avalanche of evidence amassing. Trump talks about it every day. Rudy sits there and tells you up and down that they have hundreds--no thousands--of affidavits attesting to election fraud. It's just inconceivable that people like me can't see it. That is, until you scrutinize things a bit more.

Here a few points to consider:

- Though I've said this ad nauseam, if there were any credible evidence of voter fraud, Trump would be putting it forward in court. He is not. That is the first and most important indicator that evidence of fraud does not exist and Trump does not have the evidence that he claims to have outside of court.
- But then why have all of these people come forward? They can't all be liars, can they? No. Some, likely are liars, spurred on by Trump's incessant calls for evidence and feeling that they will help him by attesting to falsehoods (like the guy claiming that votes for Trump were weighted at less than vote for Biden--that's a lie). Most are testifying not to evidence of fraud but rather "fishy" things that I saw. So-and-so put an ballot in a wrong pile. I saw a van pull up where it shouldn't have been. People weren't doing things as I understand that they should have been done. I saw someone sketchy doing something that looked sketchy. I wasn't allowed to get as close to the person I was monitoring as I think that I should have been.. These people probably do believe that they witnessed something nefarious or potentially nefarious, but in reality just don't understand what they saw.
- How do I know that this is the case--I wasn't there, I don't know what they did or didn't see? True. But see point one. Trump has a team of highly-compensated, well-educated attorneys. They are scouring through this evidence, wading through the bull#, looking for anything that they can hold up in court. Yet, they have found nothing to put forward in court. Why is that? See point 2, the evidence isn't what is claimed.

Well my “uninformed” mind does know these hearings are more for gathering evidence than presenting it to a court of law. So there’s that....

What is the point of gathering evidence if not to put it before a court????

originally posted by: Cravens
a reply to: Drucifer

Man, I figured they would have chased you off by now and I’m glad that’s not the case.

Lol. It is the case — DTOM closed his legitimate thread on the Barr announcement. Why? No good reason* other than trying to shut him down.

No evidence it is, however.

*The other thread on the Barr announcement is in the Mud Pit — his thread is legit.

@OP: Very much appreciate your insight and input.

I am admittedly new to posting here, so can someone explain why that thread is being closed?

AboveTopSecret.com takes pride in making every post count.
Please do not create minimal posts to start your new thread.
If you feel inclined to make the board aware of news, current events,
or important information from other sites;
*please post one or two paragraphs,
*a link to the entire story,
*AND your opinion, twist or take on the news item,
as a means to inspire discussion or collaborative research on your subject.

originally posted by: TKDRL

AboveTopSecret.com takes pride in making every post count.
Please do not create minimal posts to start your new thread.
If you feel inclined to make the board aware of news, current events,
or important information from other sites;
*please post one or two paragraphs,
*a link to the entire story,
*AND your opinion, twist or take on the news item,
as a means to inspire discussion or collaborative research on your subject.

Right--isn't that what my OP did?

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: yuppa

Any fraud? What, even just a tiny one? To disenfranchise millions of votes?

Come off it, have a sense of perspective.

There were 2 Reps who tried to use their dead Mothers' votes, maybe they think the election should be overturned for them?

Yes. ANY FRAUD.

With 250 million potential voters, not possible, and that is a fact.., you dont throw the baby out with the bathwater. You deal with the fraud.

In your world, you do what..install a dictator?

No.Make it a holiday. All votes should be paper ballots,with a FINGERPRINT. Cant fake fingerprints on a large scale.

A logistical nightmare..so everyone has to give their fingerprints..how about just some DNA?..I think not. Many people do not want their fingerprints, or DNA catalogued by the govt

a reply to: johnnylaw16

Apparently, you didn't write enough of your own words to satisfy the Moderator.

originally posted by: johnnylaw16

originally posted by: Cravens
a reply to: Drucifer

Man, I figured they would have chased you off by now and I’m glad that’s not the case.

Lol. It is the case — DTOM closed his legitimate thread on the Barr announcement. Why? No good reason* other than trying to shut him down.

No evidence it is, however.

*The other thread on the Barr announcement is in the Mud Pit — his thread is legit.

@OP: Very much appreciate your insight and input.

I am admittedly new to posting here, so can someone explain why that thread is being closed?

I'm wondering myself, you and only you, can enquire. At the top of the page, on the right side, an envelope icon, click it, you should see a notification from DTOM you can ask for info.

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: yuppa

Any fraud? What, even just a tiny one? To disenfranchise millions of votes?

Come off it, have a sense of perspective.

There were 2 Reps who tried to use their dead Mothers' votes, maybe they think the election should be overturned for them?

Yes. ANY FRAUD.

With 250 million potential voters, not possible, and that is a fact.., you dont throw the baby out with the bathwater. You deal with the fraud.

In your world, you do what..install a dictator?

No.Make it a holiday. All votes should be paper ballots,with a FINGERPRINT. Cant fake fingerprints on a large scale.

A logistical nightmare..so everyone has to give their fingerprints..how about just some DNA?..I think not. Many people do not want their fingerprints, or DNA catalogued by the govt

All for making election day a holiday! I knew that there was something yuppa and I would agree on eventually.

a reply to: mtnshredder
Thanks for your reply

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: johnnylaw16

Apparently, you didn't write enough of your own words to satisfy the Moderator.

Ah, good to know.

a reply to: johnnylaw16

What court? That is part of the issue. Progressive judges are trying to simply throw the cases out.

It is not about fraud in the end. It is about ballot counting and collecting. A state cannot simply changes laws and think they are ok. It it goes against the constitution where do they end up and state appeals?

originally posted by: johnnylaw16

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: djz3ro

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: yuppa

Any fraud? What, even just a tiny one? To disenfranchise millions of votes?

Come off it, have a sense of perspective.

There were 2 Reps who tried to use their dead Mothers' votes, maybe they think the election should be overturned for them?

Yes. ANY FRAUD.

With 250 million potential voters, not possible, and that is a fact.., you dont throw the baby out with the bathwater. You deal with the fraud.

In your world, you do what..install a dictator?

No.Make it a holiday. All votes should be paper ballots,with a FINGERPRINT. Cant fake fingerprints on a large scale.

A logistical nightmare..so everyone has to give their fingerprints..how about just some DNA?..I think not. Many people do not want their fingerprints, or DNA catalogued by the govt

All for making election day a holiday! I knew that there was something yuppa and I would agree on eventually.

Ha, yes, why not!! and we all stumble into common ground once in awhile..it's nice to be able to agree sometimes!

a reply to: johnnylaw16

But it's good to see some confirmation that even Trump world cannot endlessly deny reality.

In the courtrooms you practice law in, would that count as two paragraphs and an opinion?

originally posted by: johnnylaw16

originally posted by: mtnshredder

originally posted by: johnnylaw16

originally posted by: mtnshredder
a reply to: johnnylaw16

to my understanding there’s hundreds of people coming forward saying this was a fraudulent and rigged election.

Yes, to "your" uninformed "understanding" it probably does look like there is an avalanche of evidence amassing. Trump talks about it every day. Rudy sits there and tells you up and down that they have hundreds--no thousands--of affidavits attesting to election fraud. It's just inconceivable that people like me can't see it. That is, until you scrutinize things a bit more.

Here a few points to consider:

- Though I've said this ad nauseam, if there were any credible evidence of voter fraud, Trump would be putting it forward in court. He is not. That is the first and most important indicator that evidence of fraud does not exist and Trump does not have the evidence that he claims to have outside of court.
- But then why have all of these people come forward? They can't all be liars, can they? No. Some, likely are liars, spurred on by Trump's incessant calls for evidence and feeling that they will help him by attesting to falsehoods (like the guy claiming that votes for Trump were weighted at less than vote for Biden--that's a lie). Most are testifying not to evidence of fraud but rather "fishy" things that I saw. So-and-so put an ballot in a wrong pile. I saw a van pull up where it shouldn't have been. People weren't doing things as I understand that they should have been done. I saw someone sketchy doing something that looked sketchy. I wasn't allowed to get as close to the person I was monitoring as I think that I should have been.. These people probably do believe that they witnessed something nefarious or potentially nefarious, but in reality just don't understand what they saw.
- How do I know that this is the case--I wasn't there, I don't know what they did or didn't see? True. But see point one. Trump has a team of highly-compensated, well-educated attorneys. They are scouring through this evidence, wading through the bull#, looking for anything that they can hold up in court. Yet, they have found nothing to put forward in court. Why is that? See point 2, the evidence isn't what is claimed.

Well my “uninformed” mind does know these hearings are more for gathering evidence than presenting it to a court of law. So there’s that....

What is the point of gathering evidence if not to put it before a court????

Umm... I’m pretty sure it will be presented to a court, these are not court proceedings.

originally posted by: mtnshredder

originally posted by: johnnylaw16

originally posted by: mtnshredder

originally posted by: johnnylaw16

originally posted by: mtnshredder
a reply to: johnnylaw16

to my understanding there’s hundreds of people coming forward saying this was a fraudulent and rigged election.

Yes, to "your" uninformed "understanding" it probably does look like there is an avalanche of evidence amassing. Trump talks about it every day. Rudy sits there and tells you up and down that they have hundreds--no thousands--of affidavits attesting to election fraud. It's just inconceivable that people like me can't see it. That is, until you scrutinize things a bit more.

Here a few points to consider:

- Though I've said this ad nauseam, if there were any credible evidence of voter fraud, Trump would be putting it forward in court. He is not. That is the first and most important indicator that evidence of fraud does not exist and Trump does not have the evidence that he claims to have outside of court.
- But then why have all of these people come forward? They can't all be liars, can they? No. Some, likely are liars, spurred on by Trump's incessant calls for evidence and feeling that they will help him by attesting to falsehoods (like the guy claiming that votes for Trump were weighted at less than vote for Biden--that's a lie). Most are testifying not to evidence of fraud but rather "fishy" things that I saw. So-and-so put an ballot in a wrong pile. I saw a van pull up where it shouldn't have been. People weren't doing things as I understand that they should have been done. I saw someone sketchy doing something that looked sketchy. I wasn't allowed to get as close to the person I was monitoring as I think that I should have been.. These people probably do believe that they witnessed something nefarious or potentially nefarious, but in reality just don't understand what they saw.
- How do I know that this is the case--I wasn't there, I don't know what they did or didn't see? True. But see point one. Trump has a team of highly-compensated, well-educated attorneys. They are scouring through this evidence, wading through the bull#, looking for anything that they can hold up in court. Yet, they have found nothing to put forward in court. Why is that? See point 2, the evidence isn't what is claimed.

Well my “uninformed” mind does know these hearings are more for gathering evidence than presenting it to a court of law. So there’s that....

What is the point of gathering evidence if not to put it before a court????

Umm... I’m pretty sure it will be presented to a court, these are not court proceedings.

Hm. Why are they wasting time with hearings and not directly presenting it to the court then? It won't be. It already would have been presented if it was going to be presented.