Absolute Proof the Earth is Round NOT Flat!

a reply to: daskakik

Yeah after I saw the firmament, it turned clear, I didn't see any water, so it just looked like the ship was sailing through air.

If you read the article they are actually describing exactly what I saw through the entire article.

a reply to: daskakik

Excerpt from the article:

About midnight of the day of our Lord's circumcision, the moon being eight days old, and the firmament studded with stars, and the air completely calm, there appeared in the sky, wonderful to relate, the form of a large ship, well-shaped, and of remarkable design and colour. This apparition was seen by some monks of St. Alban's, staying at St. Amphibalus to celebrate the festival, who were looking out to see by the stars if it was the hour for chanting matins, and they at once called together all their friends and followers who were in the house, to see the wonderful apparition.

....Another:

Simultaneously and ambiguously it is a Ship of the Church sailing the heavenly seas, which the medieval mind thought of as surrounding the earth, and a Ship of the Church voyaging heavenwards in marvellous flight through the air and the sky.

originally posted by: AncientHeru
Yeah after I saw the firmament, it turned clear, I didn't see any water, so it just looked like the ship was sailing through air.

If you read the article they are actually describing exactly what I saw through the entire article.

You say you are scientifically minded but you seem to be have left scientific method at the door in trying to have this story fit yours.

You said the boat you saw was the size of Los Angeles on the other side of the firmament. That would not be a human sized boat and would be a long way up.

The story in the other thread says the anchor of a ship in the air got stuck on the arch of a church door and a man swam down to try and dislodge it. That would be less than 100 feet for even an experienced free diver.

That is not the same.

Here's an excerpt about that I've been trying to explain to everyone;

That cuts both ways. Basically it is saying Irish people long ago believed in fairy-tales but that doesn't mean the fairy-tales were real, just that people believed them.

Then you have the history of people in power using these types of tales to control the masses and we have a double whammy because it doesn't mean these tales are true, just that a few know they are not while making the rest believe they are.

Keeping it on topic, it would seem the firmament over the flat earth would be the lie told up to the point when it just couldn't hold up to scrutiny anymore.

a reply to: AncientHeru
About that, from the article,

However, in the end the monks decided that what they had seen was not a supernatural apparition, but a "wonderful and extraordinary" cloud.

a reply to: daskakik

Yeah I was saying before I saw the firmament I had a dogmatic scientific mind. The vision opened my mind to other possibilities.
I was just pointing to the article because there a lot of examples of boats in the sky.
The Irish not only believed in fairy tales but they saw them in reality.
But I get it seems crazy. I just have to go with my experience, I totally understand people not believing in the firmament because if I didn’t see it I for sure wouldn’t believe it.
And thanks for not being rude like everyone else in the sub.

originally posted by: AncientHeru
Yeah I was saying before I saw the firmament I had a dogmatic scientific mind. The vision opened my mind to other possibilities.

Like the saying goes, "do not be so open-minded that your brains fall out".

You could have your mind opened to other possibilities but that doesn't mean you need to stop being analytical.

I was just pointing to the article because there a lot of examples of boats in the sky.

I know, that is what I said.

The thing is that there is no logical reason for a wooden boat to be on the other side of the firmament. That is something your mind included in that vision to relay the message that it was the firmament with water on the other side.

It is said that when people do hallucinogenic drugs, their visions are influenced by their culture. I'm not saying you were on anything but that the boat in your vision could have been a result of that cultural projection.

The Irish not only believed in fairy tales but they saw them in reality.

No, nobody knows if the people in that story actually existed. Everyone else hearing that story afterwards might buy into it and that is believing in the fairy-tale without having been there.

But I get it seems crazy. I just have to go with my experience, I totally understand people not believing in the firmament because if I didn’t see it I for sure wouldn’t believe it.

Here is the thing though, you don't really know what you saw. I mean you saw "that" but then you attached the label of "the firmament" to it and that brings with it things that were not really part of your vision.

For example, you don't really know if it was or wasn't spherical. You only saw part of it.

Also, even if it is something very real and something witnessed by other seers in the past, you are just assuming their description was right. That is why I mentioned why their description may have been limited by the knowledge at that time and taking that name and their description limits you in how you describe it. I mean you can't even really describe it. You didn't explore it, you just saw something and then decided it was what someone else had previously described.

a reply to: AncientHeru

You

There is an entire universe outside of our world

Your killing your credulity again. Because you literally capped your existence.

The firmament is a 3 dimensional ceiling.

I haven’t limited my existence.

The universe is what it is. And there is no ceiling around it.

a reply to: AncientHeru

Yeah I was saying before I saw the firmament I had a dogmatic scientific mind.

Then how do the products of the universe make it to earth. Dust from space. Light for observation and electromagnetic radiation for radio astronomy. With no indication of being impeded by a firmament. Meteorites falling to earth and leaving physical evidence of a physical existence outside earth. With comets flying about the solar system showing there is no evidence of a physical dome.

Rockets launched to place satellites in orbit. Many can be seen from earth. Proving tangible services such as satellites phone, satellite internet, satellite TV, GPS, weather reports. Space exploration.

If people believed in your imaginary firmament, then such things would never been attempted. Or attempted and failed if there really was a dome. But here we. Slowly reaching beyond earth to explore.

While you wrap your reality up in your own ignorant imagine.

a reply to: AncientHeru

The problem here is on the one hand you're castigating people for believing things in which they do not have direct experience and trusting second hand reports, while at the same time asking them to believe second hand reports of something of which they have no experience.

You're also doing that using other people's reported opinions and via a medium that only exists because of the application of the scientific method and which consists largely of equations.

Science is not dogmatic or inflexible, it's a methodology that allows the communication of findings. Rigid opinions have no place in it. If you had a dogmatic scientific mind you were doing it wrong. Using your own logic, unless you are a qualified scientist you aren't in a position to criticise how it works.

Alsi, if you want to insist on people only referencing topics in which they have direct experience then turbo's contributions here would become non-existent.

I’m a spiritual man. I haven’t asked anyone to believe me and and I don’t expect them to. They shouldn’t believe me, they should figure out the world for themselves and not have their thinking done for them. I’ve only tried to point out the pit falls of science. I’m not saying it’s entirely wrong at all, I’m saying it’s not perfect in the least bit.

In the yoga sutras of pantajali the elements of sound intellection are: direct observation, inductive reason, and trustworthy testimony.

I have directly personally perceived higher realities (direct observation) and the scriptures from all religions describe exactly what I’ve seen (trustworthy testimony), which is sharing the wisdom of one soul to another. Inductive reasoning helps show correspondence and continuity through the dimensions, as above so below.

I know you guys are going to say scriptures aren’t trustworthy and what not, but they helped me understand my visions. I was taught my worldview by spiritual entities and the scriptures verified my teachings.

To describe my worldview I would need to write a book or none of it would make much sense.

I was at the beach all day replying on my phone yesterday, I should have sat at a computer and took my time to articulate better, I didn’t know everyone was so serious.

I hope you all have a blessed and wonderful day.

Mankind has lived on the planet for a long time . . . maybe even 6000 years or something.
And it wasn't until about 500 years ago that the shape of the earth made any difference.

And for most people today, it still doesn't.
Most people can get through each and every day without any concern about the shape of the earth.

There is no need to confuse them.

a reply to: AncientHeru

You

I’m a spiritual man.

Doesn’t have anything to do with there being no physical dome above earth that prevents exploring a bigger universe.

I haven’t asked anyone to believe me and and I don’t expect them to.

Your posting as if you have credibility and proof at odds with what people observed and experience. You
Don’t.

They shouldn’t believe me,

They don’t because your posting in a debate forum with zero proof and credibility.

they should figure out the world for themselves

Many people here have invested in exploring their world, which you ignore.

have their thinking done for them.

Who in the last three pages of this thread had their thinking done for them?

a reply to: neutronflux

You clearly don’t understand what I’m talking about when I say experience.

If we were talking about your hikes or your hunting, then yes, you have actually experience with those things.

When it comes to space, unless you’ve been there, then whatever you know about it was taught to you by someone else.

Hence having your thinking done for you.

a reply to: AncientHeru

This is what the thread is a actual about.

“Absolute Proof the Earth is Round NOT Flat!”

The opening poster’s experience and observation.

originally posted by: AncientHeru
a reply to: neutronflux

You clearly don’t understand what I’m talking about when I say experience.

If we were talking about your hikes or your hunting, then yes, you have actually experience with those things.

When it comes to space, unless you’ve been there, then whatever you know about it was taught to you by someone else.

Hence having your thinking done for you.

As, I assume, you have not been to space either, then you are getting your thinking done for you as well. By people that are a bit away with the Faeries?

Unless, you are a Space Cadet?

originally posted by: AncientHeru
When it comes to space, unless you’ve been there, then whatever you know about it was taught to you by someone else.

Hence having your thinking done for you.

It is absolutely not having your thinking done for you. It is having someone describe their thinking, or experience, from which you can draw conclusions of your own. Again, that's a core component of how science works. It isn't dictating your thinking, it's providing information that allows you to do your own.

I have not been to space. I have, however, met several people who have. Them describing their experiences to me is not them doing my thinking for me, or dictating what I think about it - it merely provides a framework I can work with. Given that my going to space is unlikely, how else am I to understand the experience?

The fact that I haven't been to space doesn't mean that they haven't.

I've seen the curvature of the earth.

did not have to go to space to do it

it can be seen above 35,000 ft

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

I haven’t been to space but I’ve seen the firmament and what’s above the firmament.

a reply to: sraven

If earth is a round disk, it would show a curve also.

a reply to: OneBigMonkeyToo

Great. Trustworthy testimony is one of the ways to sound intellection from the yoga sutras. If you trust those people then incorporate that into your worldview.

I don’t know those people so I wouldn’t add it to my world view.