Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not.

a reply to: Pachomius

Now. The question of god, for me, starts with the question of evil. Is good and evil real? Or hollow beliefs meaningless in the context of natural selection?

What do you say?

originally posted by: jjkenobi
Why does nature follow "rules"?

Why are there unbreakable constant laws of physics?

Why don't we see more chaos? why are things neat and ordered.

Where did these "rules" come from?

Why does zero mean absence of anything? Why can't purple be a number or apricot be a vegetable or blind people be allowed to participate in axe throwing contests or airplanes have a sunroof? Why can't we have peanut butter scented soap and soap scented butter? Why are we so limited in our ambitions.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: jjkenobi
Why does nature follow "rules"?

Why are there unbreakable constant laws of physics?

Why don't we see more chaos? why are things neat and ordered.

Where did these "rules" come from?

Why does zero mean absence of anything? Why can't purple be a number or apricot be a vegetable or blind people be allowed to participate in axe throwing contests or airplanes have a sunroof? Why can't we have peanut butter scented soap and soap scented butter? Why are we so limited in our ambitions.

We do have peanut butter soap.
Peanut butter soap

Quite a few different ones too.

a reply to: Pachomius

Two more questions for you. When is a demon a god? And a god a demon?

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Pachomius

Two more questions for you. When is a demon a god? And a god a demon?

Do you mean daemon?

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Pachomius

Two more questions for you. When is a demon a god? And a god a demon?

Do you mean daemon?

Yeap. Thank you.

This is the title of the present thread:

Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not.


And the OP is as follows:

[posted on Jun, 25 2020 @ 01:12 PM]
On the assumption that mankind sincerely seeks knowledge, I submit that it is possible for any person to come to resolve the issue God exists or not, with honest intelligent productive thinking, i.e., thinking on truths, facts, logic, and the history of ideas. Now, honest intelligent productive thinking on the said issue must start with working together to concur on the concept of God. What do you dear colleagues here say?

Thanks for your replies, but not one of you have a definition of the English word, God.

Here is my definition of God:

"God in concept is the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning."




Dear posters here, the thread is on existence or non-existence of God.


I submit it is honest intelligent productive thinking for posters who do care to connect to the thread, to first before anything else, give from his stock reading or his own cognitive consideration, present what he might consider to be his information on the definition of the word, God.


So, when I notice here anyone presenting at the very top of his post, his information of a definition of the word, God - I will exchange thoughts with him.

Otherwise I will not engage with anyone who is starting with neither head nor tail in his post which is on the issue: God exists or not.

So, as you all are literate in English, just try to think of a definition of God, the English word.

And we will all work together with honest intelligent productive thinking to attain agreement on the concept of God, so that we can reason to the existence of an entity in the realm of existence, that corresponds to the concept we have reached concurrence on, or that no entity in the realm of existence corresponds to the mutually agreed on concept of God.

Please remember to proffer your definition of God, otherwise readers will not know what you are talking about, although you are literate in English.



When you do present your information on a definition of God, just reduce it to less than 20 words, that will indicate that you possess a good grasp of what you know to its core a relevant communicable but adequate definition of God should be, apropos the issue God exists or not.

a reply to: neutronflux

Actually. Nope.

variants: or daemon
plural demons or daemons
Definition of demon
1a : an evil spirit
angels and demons

www.merriam-webster.com...

Two more questions for you. When is a demon a god? And a god a demon?

a reply to: Pachomius

You

I submit it is honest intelligent productive thinking for posters who do care to connect to the thread

That’s a big negative by you.

Hello....

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Pachomius

You

I see that you all wrongly conflate God with religion, you can have religion without God.

And you can have God without religion.

Really?

I don’t think this post was about religion?

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Pachomius

The alternative is natural selection with the terms evil and good having absolutely no meaning.

Example: no god. Hitler was just practicing his dominance in a process of natural selection where the term evil has no meaning.

So the starting question is really, “do you believe an act can be good or evil, and why?”

First reply?

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Pachomius

perhaps you may want to start the convo?

I'll give ya a shove... No one can prove the existence of God to another...

Nothing about religion?

2nd reply?

originally posted by: seedofchucky
a reply to: Akragon

Well there is that 1 way . That cheat of theology . Messengers with miracles. Easily proves existence of god . Everyone watches dead man rise , or blind see , or handicap walk .. Its game over. Sign me up !~ But do we get that today ? noo.....we gotta play the pick the right cup game lol

Nothing about religion?

Fourth reply?

originally posted by: Teikiatsu
I think you'll need to define what you think God encompasses.

From my upbringing and personal philosophy, God existed before the universe began. He exists outside reality as we know it, can walk into and out of the universe the way an architect can walk in and out of a building he designed, has fundamental understanding and manipulation of the entirety of the universe because He designed it from the start, and thinks in ways beyond human comprehension.

So good luck with that.

What religion is this?

a reply to: Pachomius

I think your here to play mind games, and your not very good at it.

a reply to: Pachomius

You

Otherwise I will not engage with anyone who is starting with neither head nor tail in his post which is on the issue: God exists or not.

Again. It starts with good and evil. Do you believe in good and evil derived from a spiritual moral authority. If not, that leaves natural selection that has no need of good nor evil. Just survival.

I don't understand the preoccupation with proving or disproving the existence of God.

Isn't the existence of God a question of faith and not knowledge? If you have faith in God you should have no reason to want proof in its existence. If you do not have faith in God why waist time trying to disprove its existence?

There will always be information unknown to humanity and so their will always be room for God to exist and their will never be proof that definitively states if it exists or not. Even if God parts the clouds and reveals itself there can still be room for doubts.

a reply to: DanDanDat

And faith is a very personal thing. Persons only wanting faith explain on their terms while claiming to want other persons input are already handicapped in their understanding.

originally posted by: Akragon
No one can prove the existence of God to another...

I'll go you one better: No one can Know God without the help of another.

a reply to: Snarl

Who can know God?

Perhaps the mind of God through texts... but whos to say what is correct?

originally posted by: DanDanDat
Even if God parts the clouds and reveals itself there can still be room for doubts.

Project Blue beam?

Surely if God parted the clouds and gave actual godly wisdom everyone would bow.

Godly wisdom should remove any doubts.

Your kids won't believe you though...

Maybe that's the issue, the impact of God butting in every 50 years or so would make the whole humanity experiment pointless.

Although by that logic, proving God is impossible as there is no evidence by design.

Humans' problems may have nothing to do with God.

He has a problem with a lost nature and corrupt inner faculties.

That's the conclusion of all of the major mystical schools of thought and even exoteric religions.

A mere belief in God won't solve these problems.

That idea is only a mental construct that may have value in some regard but little substantial value in relation to what humans must really do to solve the basic problem of their existence.

a reply to: Pachomius

There was a thought or a religion long ago that claimed everything that is, is part of God... That means the rock you step on and the person you meet are all but part of God the creator. So the universe (s) Is/are but different manifestations of God.. (humm I dunno for I have seen some really cruel devils in my life).

OK sounds good to me and pretty much covers all the bases except for the 72 virgins or eternity in hell thingy that some claim as their Godly religion. hahah I just figure whatever will be will be will be when I die.... I will know the BE or my lights will be turned out forever.. Kinda like a vacation trip... You may not like the journey but once you get there "wow I could have had a V8 !"

I have always found it interesting about the reincarnation belief that some religions claim.. Either way sit back and relax everyone will know what is up soon enough IMO...

originally posted by: Willtell
Humans' problems may have nothing to do with God.

I don't think that's possible.
If we have constructed God then we have created a leader for humans and our problems.

Humans' problems are the birthplace of God.

originally posted by: 727Sky
a reply to: Pachomius

There was a thought or a religion long ago that claimed everything that is, is part of God... That means the rock you step on and the person you meet are all but part of God the creator. So the universe (s) Is/are but different manifestations of God.. (humm I dunno for I have seen some really cruel devils in my life).

OK sounds good to me and pretty much covers all the bases except for the 72 virgins or eternity in hell thingy that some claim as their Godly religion.

That idea is called Waḥdat al-wujūd (unity of existence) mainly developed by 13th century Sufi Mystic Ibn Arabi


en.wikipedia.org...
plato.stanford.edu...

It is known in the west as pantheism, a somewhat distorted view of the original idea.

It claimed that God is everything and has to be since if it isn’t that other thing is other than God or separate from God( a metaphysical impossibility). Indeed it must be a god with God, and we know that is also metaphysically impossible so we have to accept EVERYTHING in being as God or something closely emanating from him/her.


This concept likely came to the European mystics like Spinoza through the Saracen Moorish era