Corona Virus Updates Part 6

originally posted by: Never Despise
Why are the numbers so much higher in America than anywhere else?

We are a bit harder to control than they figured perhaps. Not many fans of you Need to do this or Need to do that...

a reply to: McGinty

Don’t worry about that, inactivated virus cannot spread and and attenuated virus can only in immunocompromised hosts and (mostly) their own bodies.

SARS-CoV-2 is very very good at asymptomatic spread, it can coinfect with influenza, it the unlucky few it can modify gene and protein expression through down regulation of regulatory mechanisms and up regulation of inflammatory signaling, clotting factors and mucous production pathways.

The vaccine will make people immune or partially immune for a given time period, probably short since RNA viruses are prone to mutation, so we can gain herd immunity and allow a more natural seasonal spread to occur. It will be like seasonal cold and flu waves at some point probably a year or two from now.

a reply to: CrazeeWorld777

I’m still catching up on this thread, been busy. Had no idea this thread was still active. I posted this in another thread and it sums up what we’re worried about:

SARS-CoV-2 is very good at two things, asymptomatic spread and infection of healthy hosts followed by modification of gene and protein expression in hosts that have underlying factors. It mutates like your typical run of the mill RNA virus, it’s not likely to mutate into a monster, it does not use alternative replication strategies and gene modification like you would see with a retrovirus or other viruses with the heavy use of IRES sites over RNA pol II transcription. It does not change the DNA of the host like with some viruses and transposable elements. If it did, host RNA interference and other protective mechanisms like siRNA would stop that unless the virus brought protective proteins like HIV or other viruses do. What it can do is modulate immune responses if your immune cells do not initiate an adaptive T and B cell response in time, most people can do this naturally. In a small subset of patients, very small, it down regulates regulatory mechanisms that reduce inflammation and up regulates inflammatory mechanisms, mucous production pathways and clotting factors through p-selection and leukocyte aggregates. But this is rare and usually in people who are older or have inflammatory conditions and not most of us, the problem is treating people with the quarantine standards we have and now overload and it spreading. That very small subset turns into a problem when you have about 1 billion exposed and tens of millions trying to get into hospitals, that’s what they’re freaking about. Right now we’re worried about the second wave, it’s going to be worse, and this will be the wave you may see healthcare overload and increased deaths. I would expect more news after the election because pandemics are bad for elections.

a reply to: TheAMEDDDoc

Boris has announced a new lockdown today: beginning Thursday until Dec 2nd. I guess this is to give people a few days to get organised.

It won't kill off the virus though, it wil just be waiting to spread again and if Boris opens up travel again... it will get worse again.

Probably the only way to kill the spread is to lockdown but for longer than 6 Months I'd say... just doing it for a month isn't going to do much.

a reply to: CrazeeWorld777

I agree, at this point there is nothing we can do, and that isn’t a bad thing that will destroy civilization. There are far too many asymptomatic people that it will still spread in small clusters even with lockdowns. I’ve seen positive rates as high as 25% in some test groups with most, over 90% of those positives not showing ANY symptoms. That’s normal, that’s how viruses often spread. Most people can handle the exposure. This wave will be the interesting one to watch, especially now that we’re all indifferent to it now because it wasn’t that bad last spring. Flu may see a spike too depending on the 4 viruses they picked this year for the vaccine. Plus, we’re testing for COVID more than the flu, don’t be fooled by an artificial drop. Another problem with the current tests are false negatives, up to 5% can be positive but test negative for virus. False positives should be far less common if aseptic techniques and procedures are used because the test is specific to SARS-CoV-2.

The healthcare world is worried this second wave, because of quarantine procedures and requirements, it is a very real possibility to reach a point where there will be no one left to treat ICU patients if we reach a critical point unless we make some realistic changes. There’s also the impact on older healthcare population groups and losing young and old people with exposures. That’s when people die because they can’t get medication support to get them through cytokine signaling crises. In these patients, pulmonary fibrosis, clots, then the crash will result. The signaling the virus can alter in ICU patients may cause permanent damage as well. Increased mucous production, it can release a compound from your cells in the lungs that hold 1000 times their weight in water and creates jelly like structures and that creates ground glass opacities in imaging that can lead to pulmonary fibrosis or scarring.

You still see some of these aspects in non-icu patients, but the aggregates are different. Rather than forming from regulatory failures and innate defenses entering a hypersensitive state, you see these same processes forming with adaptive immune responses like T cells that are far better at regulating those inflammatory mechanisms and targeting the infected cells or virions. Basically, you don’t pick the right viral target in time, you could be in trouble. Most people will pick some target in the virus and infected cells that interferes with it causing serious issues. Combined with RNA (precursor to protein or abnormal proteins) interference and regulatory mechanisms that remove abnormal genetic material once viral reproductive strategies are limited by antibodies, the viral infection will fail and you gain immunity from that specific strain. Because it’s an RNA virus, total immunity short term, partial or limited immunity long term as it mutates and becomes unrecognizable to sentry immune cells when you are exposed a second time.

Dr Been does a good explanation of how it works - the Halloween outfit is to try to reduce stress and cause a small for a very serious subject.

From his details

FDA Grants Inhaled Use IND for RLF-100 (Aviptadil) to Treat Patients With Moderate and Severe COVID-19 Aiming to Prevent Progression to Respiratory Failure
FDA Grants Inhaled Use IND for RLF-100 (Aviptadil) to Treat Patients With Moderate and Severe COVID-19 Aiming to Prevent Progression to Respiratory Failure | Business Wire

Inhaled Aviptadil for the Treatment of Moderate and Severe COVID-19 (AVICOVID-2)
Inhaled Aviptadil for the Treatment of Moderate and Severe COVID-19 - Full Text View - ClinicalTrials.gov

Numbers Update for Europe, and Elsewhere (No BNO) :






New Deaths :



New Cases :



www.worldometers.info...

a reply to: puzzled2

Studies like this are great and this is where research is shifting its focus. This is also where a bunch of good data is coming from mapping the viral genome and analyzing how it modifies gene expression in the host. Many are worried about the viability of a vaccine and its effectiveness but modulating immune responses can be viewed in real time and positive results can save the host.

Many labs I work with describe the aspect of vaccine research as sloppy, rushed and bad science. Hitting cells and limiting the damage from the virus hijacking protein and gene expression is our best bet short term if numbers get high enough to be a problem.

We do need to be careful and analyze conflicts of interest with novel treatment protocols, basically if they or the healthcare organization they work for may benefit from positive results in some way.

Some good things I see in publications is that it reduces formation of platelet aggregates and inhibits clotting (Covid increases this through p-selectin and neutrophil aggregates, and others). Smooth muscle relaxation and vasodilation in patients without significant decrease in blood pressure (bad for septic patients if drop is too high). Another cool aspect is acting on TNF and IL-6, up regulation of these along with abnormalities in ICAM-1 pathways can increase the production of Hyaluronic acid which can cause hemorrhage and those ground class opacities and other factors that hold immense amounts of fluid in the lungs. Big problem I see is that the treatment is short lived in patients, I would be curious of the long term impact but it was also effective in non-Covid idiopathic patients and others with prior lung injury so who knows.

originally posted by: chris_stibrany
a reply to: MonkeyBalls2
A case does not mean an illness, or an infection. IT just means the virus is present.

Correction - it doesn't mean anything. These tests are notoriously error-prone, with both false positives and false negatives.

Sorry, I won't be taking one, and I certainly will never take the vaccine.

originally posted by: MonkeyBalls2
Maybe Flu can't infect someone with Covid, and vica-versa ?
Could the Flu be a cure/palliative ?

I recall a study/paper that presented strong evidence that those who received flu vaccines were much more likely to have serious problems from SARS-Cov-2.

originally posted by: TheAMEDDDoc
a reply to: McGinty
SARS-CoV-2 is very very good at asymptomatic spread, it can coinfect with influenza, it the unlucky few it can modify gene and protein expression through down regulation of regulatory mechanisms and up regulation of inflammatory signaling, clotting factors and mucous production pathways.

Luck is not a factor.

Those with serious underlying health conditions - especially those who are insulin resistant/diabetic or pre-diabetic, have a much, much stronger likelihood of getting seriously sick.

So, the answer is - get healthy people! Go Keto/Carnivore, lose the weight, eliminate the insulin resistance/diabetes, and thumb your nose at the 'scary virus'.

a reply to: tanstaafl

I’ve heard some talk about this, not likely but could be more likely with an influenza infection around the time you get the flu vaccine or after, a few have mentioned H1N1.

It’s also a concern with first generation vaccines targeting specific pathways. What happens is you get an immune response from the vaccine which is what you want and then you get sick from the same or another similar virus or illness that targets the same tissue and you get an exaggerated immune response that increases the severity of a disease that should have been mild in the first place. This can also happen with later exposures after vaccination or with second exposures after a natural exposure. It’s one of the reasons reliable COVID vaccines are slow to start human trials, because something happened in humanized animal models or early trials.

Some vaccine trials don’t complete this aspect 100% and you can get low quality antibodies that bind virions and don’t do anything to stop it, instead it keeps reproducing while your immune system recognizes antibody generation and binding and increases inflammatory signaling. All this occurs while the virus is up regulating inflammatory mechanisms to help spread and limiting regulatory signaling that protects tissue. Then you get increased severity of disease. What stinks is one type of vaccine may work well in an older adult while another could work better in a child, and some may cause increased severity of disease if they are rushed.

Been offline for the past 9 weeks and finally got a chance to use my phone and see how the worlds going. cant believe the Uk is locked down and the US and Europe r still hitting record numbers. Nearly 500,000 infections perday, crazy

looking forward to joining the real world in 20days and catching up.

I am also going to miss out on the US election tmrw, gutted. I wont know the result until nov 15

Naturally acquired immunity is always, by far, better than any potential transient/limited immunity you may get from vaccines.

Again - I'm fine with them being available. I'll fight to the death anyone who tries to force them on me or my family.

a reply to: tanstaafl

Luck can play a factor, we’re all just playing the odds. Let’s say you have a healthy person, they eat paleo or keto, super healthy, exercise like crazy, tank of an immune system (or so they say because they don’t get sick) and then they get exposed to a nasty strain of SARS-CoV-2. The virus starts replicating, they haven’t been exposed to any corona or similar viruses in years out of luck. The virus starts replicating in epithelial lung tissue and the airway and still nothing, then it starts suppressing innate immune responses like dendritic cells. These cells present viral antigen to T-cells in the lymph nodes, without them chances of an adaptive and productive immune response drop. In this patient, inflammatory signaling will start to go nuts as eosinophils, mast cells and other signaling cells are activated and signal like crazy in infected tissue, freaking out. All the body knows is something is wrong so it sends it neutrophils to carpet bomb (more like a kamikaze attack) and other white blood cells to destroy any tissue with an abnormal signal, cells tell the body when they are in trouble through cap independent and antigen presenting pathways. Those neutrophils will start to form platelet aggregates and you get clots forming and fluid buildup in the lungs from the immune response. The worst part is this is all positive feedback, the end of the pathway increases the initial signal as more tissue becomes damaged. They’re now high risk and could become an ICU patient.

You are right though that being healthy reduces this aspect, young also fare better than old, females also tend to do better than males, along with O blood types compared to A and B. You should see what military units have to go through just to deploy Soldiers and we’re supposed to be healthier than the general population lol.

How come you haven't had any comms with the outside world in recent months? (Don't answer if you don't want to though, just curious!) Good to see you back on the thread!
a reply to: Agit8dChop

a reply to: TheAMEDDDoc



Masks are Ineffective at Stopping Particles of Viruses , Confirmed .



banned.video...

a reply to: Zanti Misfit

They’re not ineffective, they’re just not very effective depending on the mask type. Some just work better than others. Homemade masks don’t really do much and may increase transmission. Masks made to perform the job only reduce transmission, they don’t eliminate it. PPE is usually made to protect the wearer, not others.

It not so much the virus, or a vaccine that scaring most people. It the over reach being cause by Governments an their self improvised, inadequacy handling the matter.

Like the possibility that Vaccines will have to be mandatory, and those who refuse can lose their livelihood what scaring everyone. Especially by the time a said true cure comes out for the virus, everyone would might as well have herd immunity by the time that it does.

Also, getting infected a second time with the virus is believed to be the reason herd immunity wont work. Even with a vaccine there is no gauranatee what so ever that it could prevent a second or third infection. All the while those have been "cured" should have no reason to be worried, an probably shpd just get rid of the masks of so much faith is placed on the vaccine, an no one else should be forced.

Thing is, it not different then getting off a cold, only to get another one just by not climatising the body properly. Basically it just get to the point where it "Enter at your own risk" for non vacciners, while there should be non for pro-v.

originally posted by: Specimen88
Also, getting infected a second time with the virus is believed to be the reason herd immunity wont work. Even with a vaccine there is no gauranatee what so ever that it could prevent a second or third infection.

Would a fish vendor sell fishing rods?

It’s in pharma’s interest to make vaccines that need to be bought by every person on the planet every year, rather than make a single vaccine that cures you permanently. Built in obsolescence.

Now, I’m not jumping to the conclusion that this is what’s happening here. Just stating a fundamental principle of consumerism. I’ve no doubt these discussions have happened at the highest levels of big pharma with the more venal politicos that they have relationships with who can enable it for kickbacks. Whether such a scam gets the go ahead I guess depends upon whether it’s plausible to get away with it and whether release of a better, permanent vaccine can be blocked, or prevented long enough to make a bucketful of cash.

I see more and more politicians and scientists saying that a vaccine will be needed every year, just like the flu vaccine. So with that notion being validated throughout the media, getting away with it won’t be an issue.