Corona Virus Updates Part 6

So anyone disagree with the math on what we have actually achieved?

a reply to: puzzled2
Thanks for the video - interesting, well reasoned content.

The host (the ‘Fat Emperor’) finishes by questioning the need to continue lockdown now that hospitals are ‘empty’. Speaking for the U.K., our hospitals are indeed quieter and we’re rapidly leaving lockdown, but there’s still an infection rate close to r1 after around 2 months of lockdown.

Of course we can’t - and no one wants to - stay in lockdown indefinitely and with hospital admissions back to normal levels the ‘Fat Emperor’ is imo correct that this signals it’s time to start easing lockdown.

But that will inevitably see the r-value rise. So the most important thing in order to avoid a rerun of wave 1’s death rate is that we have the best possible track and trace system in place. That way as new clusters of infection are spotted those potentially infected individuals are immediately alerted and told to isolate for 2 weeks. This approach was implemented with huge success in S Korea keeping infections and deaths low.

S Korea had an incident of an infected person who had visited a nightclub. The track and trace app led (if I recall correctly) to over 200,000 people being told to isolate for 2 weeks from that one vector - from one Infected person. This shows how without their track and trace a massive 2nd wave of the virus would’ve overtaken S Korea within 2 or 3 weeks from that one person. S Korea are currently seeing clusters popping up due to infection at a meat packing plant and are struggling to keep up, asking everyone to remain indoors this week to stamp it out.

That may sound bad, but without this tech in place they’d not even know there was a problem until vast numbers were infected and a long, national lockdown ordered. Because of track and trace S Korea has never needed to lockdown...

My point is that Fat Emperor is correct in saying empty hospitals signals an easing of lockdown, but that’s only one trigger - that trigger needs its safety on (if I may use such a pretentious metaphor) until certain criteria is met. Atop the list of that criteria is having effective track and trace in place which necessitates everyone having an app on their phones that tracks their movements so it can list everyone who’s been within 2 metres of that individual since they are believed to have been infected (probably a two week period before symptoms appeared).

Otherwise that country is sleepwalking into a 2nd wave which means another nationwide lockdown. If people want to get beach to work they need to insist that their governments don’t rush it by trying to ease lockdown without a proper S Korean type GPS-app track and trace already tested and in place. Otherwise you may celebrate your freedoms for now, but it’ll be short lived with another long lockdown close on its heels.

Such tracking will not sit easily with those that don’t trust their governments. I don’t trust my government, but it’s a rock and a hard place scenario. S Korea has proven this to be the only effective way to contain the virus without a national lockdown until a vaccination/treatment that works is found, which may never happen. So it’s a choice between sacrificing anonymity and location or ongoing extended lockdowns and the economic damage that brings.

With this reasoning - leaving lockdown without GPS track and trace - I predict that in 3 to 4 weeks the U.K. enter a 2nd wave of wide spread infection and a 2nd nationwide lockdown will soon follow.

The demoralising effects of this rebound will cause the public to follow guidelines with far less conviction and adherence. Therefore the r-value will rise higher and faster and the government will react with far more draconian measures than we’ve already seen; curfews etc.

Getting the initial easing of lockdown right will dictate whether the infection waves get better or worse.



Edit: just to add... Fat Emperor’s graphic curve comparison of a locked down nation and non-locked down nation (Sweden) does indeed present a fairly similar curve, but there are differences. Those differences do mean more lives being lost in Sweden. I appreciate that policies may need to work with these differences as collateral damage. But it’s worth noting that no one wants to be sacrificed on the pyre as statistical collateral damage. To my mind if a longer lockdown policy can save those lives until GPS track and trace is installed - if that extension of lockdown and furlough pay means paying more tax for a while to repay the Coffers - if that saves those lives then it’s worth it.

That’s my opinion

a reply to: carewemust

...and I thought us Brits were confused with 'directions'.
I feel for the people of Maryland county!
Example......

After an extensive study and review by local scientists and public officials, you can go to a barber shop and/or beauty salon and get your “hair styled”, as long as the ‘styling’ doesn’t involve the actual cutting of the hair. Apparently, in phase-1 the COVID virus can identify when scissors are present and the virus will attack with increased severity.

Oh lord....and the other directives are not much better....gave me my morning giggles, thank you!

Rainbows
Jane

a reply to: McGinty

Indeed a rock and hard place decision to track and trace.
Thank you for putting it so eloquently.

Rainbows
Jane

originally posted by: cirrus12
Care to share some proof of that little 'fact' of yours?

It is common knowledge that back in t he HIV/AIDS scare days, the gay lifestyle was - shall we say - full of extremely risky behavior, including lots and lots of drugs.

Are you claiming otherwise?

Drug use has a dramatically negative effect on the immune system.

Are you claiming otherwise?

Now, I am not gay, nor have I used drugs in a very long time (been clean/sober for over 30 years), but my understanding is that even today, drug use is extremely common in the gay lifestyle.

Are you claiming otherwise?

originally posted by: SoNotYabiz
originally posted by: tanstaafl
"Do gay people no longer use a lot of drugs?"

I........just can’t even comprehend your level of ignorance and bat$#hit-crazy BS.

Dude, you shat the bed on this one. Buhbye. Holy balls, you’re a nutter.

Buh-bye...

I knew that would trigger some... truth hurts, especially when it challenges deeply held religious beliefs...

originally posted by: McGinty
S Korea had an incident of an infected person who had visited a nightclub. The track and trace app led (if I recall correctly) to over 200,000 people being told to isolate for 2 weeks from that one vector - from one Infected person. This shows how without their track and trace a massive 2nd wave of the virus would’ve overtaken S Korea within 2 or 3 weeks from that one person.

Ummm... no. Just no. You don't know that.
...

That’s my opinion

Exactly. And a wrong one at that.

This madness must end. NOW.

a reply to: tanstaafl
Whatever you say! Honestly i kind of look forward to your knee-jerk angry posts - a couple have made for funny tweets!

a reply to: McGinty

Well you need to factor into the Sweden number is who is dying.

The attached video has the information but not the figures in hard reporting.

90% of Sweden's death are Elderly in Care and immigrants of darker skinned people - major correlation between the 2 groups Vitamin "D" deficiency - Especially during the winter.



Also in the video you'll hear that people in the tropical climates actually avoid sunbathing and culturally darkening of skin is not a good thing.

So get out in the sun and add supplements to your diet.

Then get out of lock down and medicals for all the cancer heart disease etc. Prevent the staving and psychological deaths.

Still waiting for some good evidence from you on the Scottish Government actions that are better than England. Hope the Scottish are willing to pay from their own pockets the costs of the diversion from UK Government policy. Not fair to bill the English for your fear.

Numbers Update for Europe, and Elsewhere (No Bno) :






www.worldometers.info...

Worldometers has changed layout a bit, and put China back into its place.

Now the civil unrest in the USA has begun. Also, in my opinion an occurrence that was propagated by the position the virus, put society in. On so many fronts. The social environment is not good worldwide for civility I see no respite in the near future.

Stay safe.

a reply to: Bicent

President Trump said the Covid-19 CRISIS in the USA would simply vanish. It's barely mentioned in the news this week. Looks like he was right...again.

a reply to: Bicent

Where were the riots and looting after this happened?

Oh wait, he's white. And the killer is Latino. Did CNN even do a single news piece about it? I don't think Trump is the only one that uses racism or racial issues as some political card to play or to stoke the fires of racial division to his advantage, as often explained by CNN when he does that.

The killing of Mr. Kelly happened (July 2011) before the shooting of Treyvon Martin by Zimmerman (Feb. 2012), yet Zimmerman's trial was finished (July 2013) before Kelly's trial started (Dec. 2013). You think there might have been some additional factor (and motive) influencing the expedience of all that other than one being a civilian case and the other being a cop and it happening in different states with different court schedules?

I distinctly remember the Zimmerman/Martin story dominating the media in the period 2012 - 2013. To the point that I don't even know the name of the cop who started the killing of Mr. Kelly, or any of his homies joining in.

Sorry, for the distraction. News about corona from the sciences:

...
Chloroquine *is* quinine produced synthetically and altered slightly to produce a new molecule for patenting purposes. The end product in the body is still quinine. Newer molecules (such as hydroxychloroquine) decrease toxicity due to rapid absorption by making the molecule harder for the body to break down, allowing longer dosage schedules.
...
Quinine acts against malaria by targeting its purine nucleoside phosphorylase enzyme (PfPNP) [3], but it has other effects in the body which act against coronavirus.

Namely, it targets angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) [4], interfering with sialic acid biosynthesis [4]. SARS, MERS and Covid-19 use sialic acid moieties as receptors, so quinine (and its synthetic counterparts) prevent viral attachment to cell receptors.

Hydroxychloroquine / Chloroquine / quinine can also act on the immune system through cell signalling and regulation of pro-inflammatory cytokines. [4]

It also acts to increase zinc uptake, which has anti-viral effects.
...
Quinine in tonic water in the US is limited to 83 mg / liter [7]. [whereislogic: in my country I have found a supplement that is 200mg per daily recommended dose]

Thus, we can make a simple linear extrapolation, assuming a half-life of 18 hours and ingestion of 83 mg / day. This means that after 24 hours, approximately 27.67% of the amount from the prior day remains in the system. Thus it accumulates until the body is excreting as much as is ingested. That occurs after approximately 5 days, when the dosage varies between 124.5 mg immediately after ingestion to 41.5 mg immediately prior to the next ingestion.

Is that enough to have a prophylactic effect?

Well, the National Institutes of Health state that chloroquine is “a potent inhibitor of SARS coronavirus infection” [13] and since SARS binds to the same cellular receptors as Covid-19, and since chloroquine is a synthetic version of quinine, it would appear that it should work.

Pretreatment with 0.1, 1, and 10 μM chloroquine reduced infectivity by 28%, 53%, and 100%, respectively. [13]

The EC90 value of chloroquine against the 2019-nCoV in Vero E6 cells was 6.90 μM, which can be clinically achievable as demonstrated in the plasma of rheumatoid arthritis patients who received 500 mg administration. [14]

Interpolating the dosage of 500 mg to 6.9 μM concentration, for a dosage of 124.5 mg daily (83 mg from tonic water, the remainder being that remaining in the body from prior dosages), that should give a concentration of ~1.71 μM, reducing infectivity by ~60% immediately after ingestion of 1 L of Indian tonic water, decreasing over the next 24 hours to ~.47 μM, with a reduced infectivity of ~40%, per [13].

That would be more effective at ‘flattening the curve’ than any measures taken thus far. Covid19 has a R0 of ~2.2… so we could conceivably reduce that (assuming an average reduced infectivity of 50%) to ~1.1, effectively completely ‘flattening the curve’.

Given that no doctor is going to give you chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine as a prophylactic measure, using Indian tonic water containing quinine to reduce infectivity would seem to be a prudent preventative measure.

The wrap-up: It would appear that quinine interferes with sialic acid biosynthesis, which the Covid19 virus takes advantage of to attach to cell receptors. If the virus has a more difficult time attaching to cells, that allows the body to clear the virus without having to simultaneously deal with a rapidly-spreading infection.
...
[4] New insights on the antiviral effects of chloroquine against coronavirus: what to expect for COVID-19? - ScienceDirect
...
[13] Chloroquine is a potent inhibitor of SARS coronavirus infection and spread (NCBI)

Source: Information on quinine, etc....FWIW | CRMD Message Board Posts

Now I don't know if they can equate quinine with chloroquine in a 1:1 ratio of effectiveness like that, as if it can do all the same things that chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine can do, and just as effective, which I'm wondering (skeptical?) about, especially in relation to function nr.4 explained below (the main function for prophylaxis, as summarized at the end above), also referred to as the "third point" at the end of the video:

But it's interesting nevertheless. Especially when considering the 200mg quinine supplement I just saw on offer in my country; combined with 10mg zinc, 400mg vitamin C (360mg ascorbic acid + 40mg magnesium ascorbate), well, I'm not gonna bother you with all the substances, but most are relevant to Covid-19. Seems they mislabeled it though, they called it "Immuno C7", but "Covid-Killer" would have sounded a lot cooler. Probably not politically correct or something, some marketing rule that you can't use "killer" on a supplement cause then it sells less or people might make an issue out of it. Good thinking by these people though:

Oh,the key article used in the previous video about HCQ and CQ was this one:

Structural and molecular modelling studies reveal a new mechanism of action of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine against SARS-CoV-2 infection - ScienceDirect

The big question for me remains, can quinine do function nr.4 (from the video, the mechanism related to sialic acid and the ACE-2 receptor) as well, and how well (compared to its increased toxicity over HCQ)? As was claimed in that message board post. I phrased the question slightly differently in the thread about Trump taking HCQ as a prophylactic treatment.

a reply to: whereislogic

Very interesting info about Quinine; could it really as simple as Indian tonic water (I’m assuming the over the counter carbonated mixer drink). Even if it’s not in the HQC league, it’s cheap(ish) and available everywhere. (I’m getting that from your write up - haven’t had time to watch all the the vids, so pls forgive me if I got that wrong!).

Is the Quinine acting as an ionophore that allows zinc to enter the cells, in the same way HQC and CQ does? Or does it do more than this? Is quinine better than Quercetin? Can it better consumed together with quercetin?

Of course HQC and CQ are hard to come by, so I’m taking 500mg quercetin a day (together with 10mg Zinc, which I’ll raise to 50mg zinc if symptoms show), so do you think quinine will compliment quercetin? I gather that you’re taking a quinine supplement - is there a dose you’d recommend? Sorry for the barrage of questions...

Looking forward to hearing what those with far more expertise than me (which means any) on this thread have to say.

(Btw, speaking of contributors with expertise, we haven’t heard from Byrd on here for a little while. Hope everything is ok with you and your family. Miss your input!)

originally posted by: puzzled2
a reply to: McGinty
Still waiting for some good evidence from you on the Scottish Government actions that are better than England.

I'll let the people speak for themselves! Here's today's YouGov poll asking that very question...

Which country do you think has handled the coronavirus outbreak better between England and Scotland?

England: 14%
Scotland: 44%
They have both handled it the same: 25%
Don't know: 17%

yougov.co.uk...

Coronavirus excess deaths: UK has one of highest levels in Europe

Interesting article, with supporting graphs, which may show the true[er] numbers of the victims of Covid-19.

Britain’s excess death toll at the peak of the Covid-19 pandemic was the highest among 11 countries analysed by the Guardian.

The UK had the biggest spike among countries including Sweden, France, Germany and Spain. At its peak the UK death toll was more than double that of an average week, at 109%, compared with Spain’s peak in week 14 where the death toll was double the average at 100%.

Excess deaths are those above what we might expect to see in normal circumstances. The figure is the difference in the number of people who have died in a given week compared with the average number of deaths that occurred in the same period in the previous five years.

Source: The Guardian article (UK) on Excess Deaths

.

Numbers Update for Europe, and Elsewhere (No Bno) :






www.worldometers.info...

Update: May 31, 2020 Sunday Tokyo time: 9:30 am

Just a short reminder. MIM's "June 12th's " " a day of awakening". You all have been seeing the current events unfold. And yes, something is being programmed behind the scenes. What will it be ?

Update:

According to each municipality, the total number of people confirmed to be infected in Japan
is: 5231 in Tokyo ( we are seeing an increase now of daily infections )
1782 in Osaka
1361 in Kanagawa
1085 in Hokkaido ( just not getting any better there )
1000 in Saitama
Chiba 901 ( when the hot weather sets in, the numbers will likely affect the elderly )
Fukuoka 746 ( this area includes Kita Kyushu, yesterday sirens were blasting, STAY INDOORS
▽ Hyogo 699
▽ Aichi 511
Kyoto 358 ( the foreigners here are not going to stay indoors for very long, you'll see a large increase soon )
▽ Ishikawa 298
▽ Toyama 227
▽ Ibaraki 168
▽ Hiroshima 167 People
▽ Gifu Prefecture 150 people
▽ Gunma Prefecture 149 people
Okinawa prefecture 142 people ( this was a surprise since no new cases for the last 30 days )
▽ Fukui prefecture 122 people
▽ Shiga prefecture 100 people
▽ Nara prefecture 92 people
▽ Miyazaki prefecture 88 people ( I'll be going there in June, that is if the trains are still working )
▽ Niigata prefecture 82 people
Ehime prefecture 82 people
Fukushima prefecture 81 people
Nagano prefecture 76 people
Shizuoka prefecture 76 people
Kochi prefecture 74 people
Yamagata prefecture 69 people
Tochigi prefecture 65 people
Yamanashi prefecture 64 people
Wakayama prefecture 63 people
▽ Oita prefecture 60 people
▽ Kumamoto prefecture 48 people
▽ Saga prefecture 47 people
▽ Mie prefecture 45 people
Yamaguchi prefecture 37 people ( this number is really unusually low )
▽ Kagawa prefecture 28 people
▽ Aomori prefecture 27 people
▽ Okayama prefecture 25 people
▽ Shimane prefecture 24 people
▽ Nagasaki prefecture 17 people
▽ Miyazaki prefecture 17 people
▽ Akita prefecture 16 people
▽ Kagoshima prefecture 10 people
▽ Tokushima prefecture 5 people
▽ Tottori The prefecture is 3 people.

In addition, a total of 345 people were confirmed by quarantine at the airport, and 14 people returned from China by charter aircraft.

According to the Ministry of Health, Labor and Welfare, by the 30th, the number of seriously ill persons was 124 in total, including 123 infected domestically and 1 passenger on a cruise ship.

1. In Kitakyushu City, 26 new people were confirmed to be infected with the new coronavirus on the 29th, and a total of 69 people were confirmed infected in Kitakyushu City.
According to Kitakyushu City, the number of newly confirmed infections is 26, including one junior high school student.

2. A support group for single-parent families conducted a questionnaire on their website, it was found that nearly 70% of households had a reduced income due to the new coronavirus.

3. According to the Ministry of Health, Labor and Welfare, four men who arrived at Haneda Airport and Narita Airport from the Philippines and Pakistan on the 29th were newly confirmed to have been infected with the new coronavirus at the quarantine station at the airport.
A total of 186 people were confirmed infected at the airport quarantine.

4. ( this is the new norm, yep, its them toilets ) ( many schools still have them weird toilets ) In reopening elementary and junior high schools, the Nagoya City Board of Education is making adjustments so that outside personnel can clean the school toilets as a measure to prevent infection with the new coronavirus. There is concern that the faculty and staff will be cleaning up for the time being, and the burden on the faculty and staff will increase.

5. Deaths from the COVID-19 epidemic in Italy climbed by 111 on Saturday, against 87 the day before, the Civil Protection Agency said, while the daily tally of new cases fell to 416 from 516 on Friday.
The total death toll since the outbreak came to light on Feb. 21 now stands at 33,340 the agency said, the third highest in the world after those of the United States and Britain.

6. ( I've given up on these fake numbers. Why, where is China, South America and Africa )The tally by Johns Hopkins University in the United States shows that there are 6,003,762 cases and the number of deaths is 367,356.

7. The United States has 1,764,671 cases, which is the largest in the world. It is followed by Brazil with 465,166, Russia with 396,575, Britain with 274,219, Spain with 239,228, and Italy with 232,664.

8. ( have a read ) www.japantimes.co.jp...

9. SEOUL, South Korea — Two newly assigned American soldiers tested positive for the coronavirus after arriving in South Korea on a government-chartered flight from the United States, the military said Saturday.

10. ( its a world depression folks now ) French carmaker Renault is poised to announce 15,000 layoffs worldwide on May 29 as it unveils a plan to boost its profitability and cope with faltering sales, a representative for the CFDT union said after meeting with the company.

11. ( don't kid yourself, many are still dying in China ) The Beijing city government has arranged for all municipal-owned hospitals to set up funeral home offices in May, according to internal government documents obtained by The Epoch Times.
The timing has led some analysts to believe that it is related to the current outbreak of the CCP (Chinese Communist Party) virus, commonly known as novel coronavirus.
In China, funeral homes with crematoriums are all state-run.

12. The Defense Department had one of its lowest increases in COVID-19 cases since early March this week, though it also saw its second consecutive week of deaths, according to data released Friday.
Following the Memorial Day weekend death of Sgt. Simon Zamudio, a 34-year-old Illinois-based Army reservist, a DoD civilian passed away Wednesday, bringing DoD’s toll to 36.
To date, 9,449 service members, civilians, dependents and contractors have tested positive for COVID-19, an increase this week of 6 percent. Of those, 428 have been hospitalized and 5,316 have recovered, with a mortality rate of 0.4 percent.

13. ( here in Japan, the life insurance company pays out for suicide ) The mental health crisis triggered by COVID-19 is escalating rapidly. One example: When compared to a 2018 survey, U.S. adults are now eight times more likely to meet the criteria for serious mental distress. One-third of Americans report clinically significant symptoms of anxiety or clinical depression, according to a late May 2020 release of Census Bureau data.

14. Africa now has over 95,000 cases of infection across the continent and more than 3000 deaths, with Egypt (14,000) just behind South Africa (18,000) in reported infections.

15. Russia confirmed 8,952 new coronavirus infections Saturday, bringing the country’s official number of cases to 396,575.

16. Over 1000 Mexicans in America have died of the virus.

17. www.youtube.com...&feature=emb_logo

Well ATS members, there is more going on then the virus these days. The hot summer days are now among us. With millions of unemployed around the world now, well... "MIM's " " a day of awakening" June 12th is just around the corner. Oh, I'm just giving this a date, it means nothing actually to you guys, but the "day of awakening" is among us all.
What will happen, I haven't stated, may hit us in the face

a reply to: McGinty

As I understand it quinine is a zinc ionophore, but it's more toxic than HCQ. CQ is basically quinine altered to make it slightly more effective I think, but I'm sure that HCQ is altered CQ specifically to make it less toxic and make it easier for the HCQ to get into the cell (therefore less HCQ will be broken down by your body's metabolism and excreted, more of it will get into cells, making it a more effective medicine that you can then take in lesser quantities for the same effect). All 3 compounds will gravitate towards the cells in the lungs, kidneys and one other important organ that Covid-19 can damage (was it the liver?). All 3 can enter cells (where it will increase Ph, therefore reducing viral replication), HCQ is just the best at that (and I know for certain that CQ and HCQ can specifically get into endosomes and lysosomes as depicted in that video with the mechanism of action, I'm not sure if quinine can get in there as well, HCQ should be best at it again, because of the hydroxy-group, long story).

I think the main difference (in terms of efficiency) is that quercetin does not increase the Ph within the cell, hence it's also considerably less toxic or invasive; but also considerably less effective. It may be that there is an additional function for HCQ that is not well elucidated in the video about the mechanism of action that I used. Which involves an actual long lasting effect that changes the ACE2 receptor to such an extent that the corona virus is inhibited from binding to the ACE2 receptor, as I heard someone named DrBeen (on youtube) explain, but it can be that he was confusing the function decribed as nr.4 in that previous video about the mechanism of action (the one where HCQ binds with sialic acid near the ACE2 receptor, blocking corona virus from binding with the ACE2 receptor). If the latter is the case, then it may very well be that Quercetin also has this function, because I heard at least one person (a doctor I think, or a scientist) say that quercetin binds with the ACE2 receptor therefore occupying it to prevent the corona virus from binding there; that sounds a lot like function nr.4 again (see what that looks like in the video, one could easily confuse that with the description, 'binding with the ACE2 receptor', even though it would be more accurate to say, 'binding near the ACE2 receptor').

But you'll want that increase in Ph inside the cells if you want to have a better effect on inhibiting viral replication anyway, which I don't think quercetin does either way (the main reason for the toxicity warnings and side effects of quinine/CQ/HCQ, also the reason why those 3 can cause some qt prolongation, which doesn't necessarily cause serious problems, especially not with the less toxic HCQ; also the main reason why quinine and CQ may not be a good choice for Africans, having to do with a deficiency of a particular enzyme, G6PD, that can not be made well with such high Ph in the cell or for some other reason related to what quinine/CQ affects in the cell, leading to problems if you already have a deficiency in this enzyme; then again, aspirin has the same issue, didn't stop anyone from taking aspirin in the past before there was paracetamol. And neither has it stopped many Africans from taking CQ or qunine in rather large quantities as prophylaxis against malaria).

Oh yeah, Quinine/CQ/HCQ also stay around longer in your body (especially HCQ with its ability to get into cells easier, therefore, not metabolized and excreted that quickly, CQ may be an improvement over quinine in this regards) than quercetin('s effects). The effects of quercetin will be gone much quicker, requiring larger dosages (also again less toxicity buildup, because the body breaks it down easier). That's the trade-off with medicine, more effectiveness usually also means more toxicity and more invasiveness. But corona warrants taking more drastic measures to prepare. And HCQ would be the optimal choice since it's been specifically designed to be less toxic and thus less problematic.

Taking quinine from supplements is easier and probably cheaper than drinking Indian tonic water, depending on how much is in the supplements. If you want to get up to 200mg quinine (comparing with the supplements I saw on offer that I mentioned before) per day (Dr. Rob Elens suggested 300mg per day of quinine as part of the prophylaxis cocktail containing zinc, vitamin C+D3 + selenium), you'd have to drink 2.25 liters of tonic per day, that's a bit much to drink (89mg per liter). Besides, there could even be less than 89mg per liter in Tonic water, cause I read somewhere that some years ago they significantly reduced the amount of quinine in Tonic water (by FDA regulation), so I'm not sure if the 89mg number is from before that change or after. I did hear Dr. Rob Elens repeat that number for Tonic water a couple of days ago, so either he isn't aware that it was reduced in many countries, including Europe, or that number is from after the reduction. Either way, I'd be going with supplements, I found one that costs 0.83 euro per 200mg. Sounds like that's cheaper than 2.25 liters of tonic. Besides, it has Vitamin C and zinc, perfect for my needs. As far as supplements go, it's still a bit pricy though (I have another supplement that costs 0.17 euro per 250mg quercetin + 700mg vitC, that one was my most expensive so far, and it was on sale, 2 bottles for the price of one + 1 euro, so normally it would be 0.32 euro per pill with that composition).

The cheapest way of course would be to make your own tonic. Cinchona bark (that has the quinine in it) is available in my country as a kitchen herb for cooks. Find a recipe and cook that can tell you at least the approximate amount of quinine that will end up in your tonic (probably a hard find, cause these types usually don't care about overdosing people with quinine and they're not chemists, neither is it regulated in any way, ironic isn't it? Given the regulations concerning quinine in tonic water being limited at 89mg per liter, the bark has no regulations it seems, cooks aren't exactly controlled by Big Pharma and their lap dogs in the bureaucracy*), and you're good to go.

*: I guess it's a matter of liability, there being no liability involved if you make your own tonic