The Anti-Christian conspiracy

reply to post by HIFIGUY


um, ok, you're confusing reality with philosophy. philosophy is all subjective, that i'll admit. i'm not interested in subjective reality as proof, i'm interested in objective proof.

and the 10 commandments are NOT objective. i don't objectively see how idol making and polytheism are moral issues

Actually the Ten Commandments are objective. Just because you have no faith and therefore can not experience God or his Spirit does not mean he does not exist. God talks to the individual who is listening and faithful. Just because you have not experienced it for yourself does not make it subjective. It is still objective whether you like it or not. It is not going away just because you haven't seen it or don't believe it's real. God's spirit is a habitable place of existence that can be experienced in a tangible way and there is no argument you can come up with that will change that. IT IS REAL.. As real as the keyboard you are typing on and I feel bad that you refuse to believe the truth simply because you have not seen it for yourself.

What you are doing is almost the same as someone saying the war in Iraq isn't happening because we can't see it. All the media is lying and it must be fake because we don't experience it or see proof for ourselves.

NO!! You can not dismiss things calling them subjective just because you have not witnessed them for yourself.

[edit on 21-10-2007 by Raphael]

Originally posted by Raphael
Actually the Ten Commandments are objective. Just because you have no faith and therefore can not experience God or his Spirit does not mean he does not exist.

...ok, how are they objective? how is making an idol immoral?

God talks to the individual who is listening and faithful.

...yeah, i actually was listening and faithful for a few years. heard nothing

Just because you have not experienced it for yourself does not make it subjective.

...something that's dependent of experience is, by definition, subjective

It is still objective whether you like it or not. It is not going away just because you haven't seen it or don't believe it's real. God's spirit is a habitable place of existence that can be experienced in a tangible way and there is no argument you can come up with that will change that. IT IS REAL.. As real as the keyboard you are typing on and I feel bad that you refuse to believe the truth simply because you have not seen it for yourself.

prove it
if it's so real, you should be able to

What you are doing is almost the same as someone saying the war in Iraq isn't happening because we can't see it. All the media is lying and it must be fake because we don't experience it or see proof for ourselves.


NO!! You can not dismiss things calling them subjective just because you have not witnessed them for yourself.

false comparison. i acknowledge things that i haven't seen or experienced for myself. i have never seen a solar eclipse, but i acknowledge that they happen because they can be proven. anything that's real can be proven without direct experience

if you have to witness something for yourself to prove that it is real, it is subjective... that's actually the very definition of subjective, dependent on personal observation

There is a story where Jesus comes upon a blind man. The people all around the blind man tell him of the birds, and of color, and other things which he had never seen.

He did not believe these things existed..

Jesus healed him, and he saw. And that which he percieved not became known to him.

Technology of today that allows us to see Infrared, Microwaves, Xrays, and a host of other things, is available today, but was not a short time ago.

Some things become known through desire to know and an allowance to be revealed. Its the mystery of faith.

Peace


[edit on 24-10-2007 by HIFIGUY]

reply to post by HIFIGUY


i'm sorry, but this contributes nothing. you're somehow trying to compare science and faith... but they aren't compatible. we don't take science on faith, we take it on evidence.

Madness, perhaps you will listen to one of the revered Masters in Science...

Einstein, says the following in regards to Christ in an interview..This coming from a scientific man.

Albert Einstein

To what extent are you influenced by Christianity? "As a child I received instruction both in the Bible and in the Talmud. I am a Jew, but I am enthralled by the luminous figure of the Nazarene."

You accept the historical existence of Jesus?
"Unquestionably! No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life."

He does say the word Unquestionably doesnt he? Doesnt that mean without a doubt?

He later goes on to say the following...

Albert Einstein

"The most beautiful emotion we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion that stands at the cradle of all true art and science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead, a snuffed-out candle. To sense that behind anything that can be experienced there is something that our minds cannot grasp, whose beauty and sublimity reaches us only indirectly: this is religiousness. In this sense, and in this sense only, I am a devoutly religious man."

Hmm..Doesnt he say that the mysterious is the fundamental emotion that stands at the cradle of all true art and science?

He speaks of an intangible leading to the tangible.

From personal experience, it was the probability of the impossible made manifest that changed the way I viewed life and my duty.

When I was presented with the unknown making known his precense, I was dumfounded in such a way that I wasnt sure how to react or what to do, for I was alone.

I came to these forums seeking to explain..some things that were happening to me that I could not explain. Saint4God can attest to this.

I came here looking for a solution, but found out that the solution was within.

I am like the Blind man who was cured. Formerly convinced that colors did not exist. Once shown, I became an artist.

Einstiens words sum up nicely a desire to understand, with the unability to comprehend.

Peace


[edit on 24-10-2007 by HIFIGUY]

reply to post by HIFIGUY


einstein speaks of imagination, not faith... einstein was no man of faith, an atheist to his death*
imagination in myth.. notice that he uses the word myth. a myth isn't something you have faith in, it's something you understand within a cultural context

oh, and the argument from authority is bunk


*ok, we don't exactly know what his last words were... they were in german and the nurse didn't understand them...but it's most likely that he did

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
einstein speaks of imagination, not faith... einstein was no man of faith, an atheist to his death*

Albert Einsten

"As a child I received instruction both in the Bible and in the Talmud. I am a Jew,

Is that an imaginary Jew or a mythical Jew?

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
the argument from authority is bunk

Of course it is..Why should any man believe any other man. Even Jesus said he couldnt testify to himself, but ultimately he had to provide witness in the form of Miracles.

But then, the men who witnessed were not to be believe by their own..so around and around we go..

As far as Einstiens last words..these were his last written words..

When Einstein died on April 18, 1955 he left a piece of writing ending in an unfinished sentence. These were his last words:

In essence, the conflict that exists today is no more than an old-style struggle for power, once again presented to mankind in semireligious trappings. The difference is that, this time, the development of atomic power has imbued the struggle with a ghostly character; for both parties know and admit that, should the quarrel deteriorate into actual war, mankind is doomed. Despite this knowledge, statesmen in responsible positions on both sides continue to employ the well-known technique of seeking to intimidate and demoralize the opponent by marshaling superior military strength. They do so even though such a policy entails the risk of war and doom. Not one statesman in a position of responsibility has dared to pursue the only course that holds out any promise of peace, the course of supranational security, since for a statesman to follow such a course would be tantamount to political suicide. Political passions, once they have been fanned into flame, exact their victims...

He was a man of Peace.

Albert Einstein

"Nothing that I can do will change the structure of the universe. But maybe, by raising my voice, I can help in the greatest of all causes -- goodwill among men and peace on earth."

Amen..


[edit on 26-10-2007 by HIFIGUY]

He's also connects the power struggle with religion.

When Einstein points out that religion can be at fault for war and power struggles, it's seen as peaceful. Yet, when someone points out things like the Crusades, and the fact that Christianity has a lot of blood on it's hands, it's seen as wrong and Anti-Christian.

Ha. It's funny how two people can say the same thing, but one is seen as peaceful, and the other is seen as a liar.

Originally posted by HIFIGUY

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
einstein speaks of imagination, not faith... einstein was no man of faith, an atheist to his death*

Albert Einsten

"As a child I received instruction both in the Bible and in the Talmud. I am a Jew,

Is that an imaginary Jew or a mythical Jew?

jew by culture. in the jewish community they're known as SECULAR jews. they take part in the rituals for the sake of cultural heritage, it's what einstein did

Of course it is..Why should any man believe any other man. Even Jesus said he couldnt testify to himself, but ultimately he had to provide witness in the form of Miracles.

But then, the men who witnessed were not to be believe by their own..so around and around we go..

...yeah, there might not have been a jesus or people that witnessed... as we have no writings of jesus prior to 55CE

He was a man of Peace.

agreed

Albert Einstein

"Nothing that I can do will change the structure of the universe. But maybe, by raising my voice, I can help in the greatest of all causes -- goodwill among men and peace on earth."

oo, can i play the quote einstein game?

It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.

sounds like an atheist (or at least an agnostic, atheist writ polite)

I want to play..

Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish.
Albert Einstein

At any rate, I am convinced that He [God] does not play dice.
Albert Einstein, In a letter to Max Born, 1926

My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.
Albert Einstein



[edit on 26-10-2007 by Raphael]

reply to post by Raphael


Pass Go..Collect 200 lol

Not that Einstein was an Authority on God. I probably went out of bounds on this, and yes..Madness took my own words and partially stabbed me with them..if not fully.

Im willing to concede to that for in my post about if you were God for a day he came back with this...

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

i'd cure every disease.... feed every hungry mouth.... stop all natural disasters... dissolve all religions... institute morality based on logic... and, at the end of the day, i'd make sure all deities were dead (except myself, as i'd return to a mortal state the next day)
oh, and i'd agree with the whole one world of love thing

He makes me think, in a good way, and in the process, pushes the envelope for truth in this morality based on logic.

I think hes touching on an area that deals with righteousness that is written on the heart and there is truth in his statement..

Peace


[edit on 26-10-2007 by HIFIGUY]

reply to post by Raphael


the "superior spirit" and the not-dice playing "god" are metaphors for the unknowns in physics in the universe...

the second one is a direct reference to physics, einstein was talking about how he viewed quantum physics

reply to post by HIFIGUY


thank you for the kind words

This has trailed off from the Anti-Christian topic of this thread. I asked for evidence weeks ago, nothing has been posted. It's basically Saint's personal problem with Satanists, and that's about as deep as the rabbit hole goes.

Originally posted by HIFIGUY
I came to these forums seeking to explain..some things that were happening to me that I could not explain. Saint4God can attest to this.

I'll certainly testify to this. When I met (meaning online) HiFi he was going through a lot of things people would never experience in three lifetimes. Through the last two years HiFi has gone through a remarkable transformation. Inclusive in that is absolute proof of the existance of God and verification of His Son being the one and only way through which one can be saved. To HiFi (and myself) this is undeniable.

(I haven't been around lately due to a new job which requires overtime, but perhaps for the better. I'm finding these days when HiFi speaks, the best thing I can do is listen.)

Back on topic, the organized theistic Satanists are tip of the iceberg. Since I cannot get Shauny (or anyone else) to agree that they are at least involved, there's no way of moving on to the bigger picture.

[edit on 1-11-2007 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by HIFIGUY
I came to these forums seeking to explain..some things that were happening to me that I could not explain. Saint4God can attest to this.

I'll certainly testify to this. When I met (meaning online) HiFi he was going through a lot of things people would never experience in three lifetimes. Through the last two years HiFi has gone through a remarkable transformation. Inclusive in that is absolute proof of the existance of God and verification of His Son being the one and only way through which one can be saved. To HiFi (and myself) this is undeniable.

(I haven't been around lately due to a new job which requires overtime, but perhaps for the better. I'm finding these days when HiFi speaks, the best thing I can do is listen.)

Back on topic, the organized theistic Satanists are tip of the iceberg. Since I cannot get Shauny (or anyone else) to agree that they are at least involved, there's no way of moving on to the bigger picture. We cannot even begin to explore things like this:

reply to post by saint4God


Um that might be the single worst comic strip ever. It has a reference to God (any God) and one about Jesus. Wow, how anti-Christian.

Well if Satanists are just the tip of the ice burg, as you put it, then what's the rest of this ice burg made up of? Evil science and evolution lovers I'll bet..

Originally posted by shaunybaby
Um that might be the single worst comic strip ever.

On this we agree.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
It has a reference to God (any God) and one about Jesus. Wow, how anti-Christian.

Again, if you cannot see this as being anti-Christian, the road is impossibly long and difficult to travel together.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
Well if Satanists are just the tip of the ice burg, as you put it, then what's the rest of this ice burg made up of?

Less visible forces, sometimes represented within persons. One step at a time though. One cannot fly a helicopter without knowing where the start button is.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
Evil science

Why would I be a scientist if I thought it were evil?

Originally posted by shaunybaby
and evolution lovers I'll bet..

"evolution lover" is a bit of a broad catagory. It's like saying all Punk Rockers like Blink 182. Uhm...not quite.

Originally posted by saint4God
One cannot fly a helicopter without knowing where the start button is.

Indeed. Ill take it one further...

One cannot fly the helicopter unless he wishes to fly it.

Look and you shall see. Seek and you and find. Knock and it shall be open to you.

Peace


[edit on 7-11-2007 by HIFIGUY]

reply to post by HIFIGUY


one cannot fantasize without wanting to prefer fantasy to reality...
seems like that's what this whole conspiracy is all about.