The Anti-Christian conspiracy

Originally posted by Irradiatus
That's some MAJOR circular reasoning.

How do you know God is real?

A: Because he said so.

Where did he say so?

A: The Bible

Mighty assumptive of you, and might I add wrong. I could not read the Bible before knowing God therefore could not have gotten what He said out of it. The 'circular reasoning' does not pass validation in my case.

[edit on 20-9-2007 by saint4God]

Originally posted by shaunybaby
Person B (Christian): ''That's okay, when you're ready to believe and find out the Truth, you can, but until then you can just believe in your science if it makes you happy''

I don't find this an acceptable answer either.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
It's like the rest of us don't know a secret that you know.

No secret at all. We're always repeating the same ole 2,000 year old thing.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
Did you ever stop to think that maybe we're not stupid OR against you?

I know you're not stupid. Why would someone bother talking to a stupid person? I also believe you don't think I'm stupid for the same reason. I don't believe you are entirely against me. I've seen you come up with some gems of questions that most people are either afraid to ask or don't give any amount of serious consideration.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
Perhaps we don't believe because in our minds; virgin births, world wide floods, walking on water, adam & eve etc, just doesn't cut it for us as 'Truth'.

Sounds wacky, don't it? I feel ya.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
That Truth may be okay for you and other Christians, which is fine. Some people refuse to believe that Elvis is dead, there are groups that still believe he's alive and swear blind to it.

Ah, the old 'equivalent through incomparable comparison' technique, I know it well. Can't you see apples are orange? Oranges are orange and THEY are fruit too!

Originally posted by shaunybaby
So the world is not adverse to belief, however Christians are adverse to people who don't believe in what they believe.

No they're not.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
I'm not going to lie, ofcourse there are people that hate Christianity,

This acknowledgement helps forward the discussion.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
The only reason you think there is a conspiracy is because The Bible says there will be one.

No it's not, I met people involved in it.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
We've just seen a few posts back someone saying 'God is real because he said so'. Could you imagine this on other threads?

Diversion, we're not discussing that here.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
UFOs are real because I saw one.
UFOs are real because Aliens told me so.
(I wouldn't be surprised if those two above had actually been used)

Evolution is true because I say so.
Man and Ape had a common ancestor because I say so.

More 'equivalents through unequal comparisons', diversions. Can we stick to the topic please? If you saw a UFO or talked to an alien, start your own thread on it.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
That doesn't get us anywhere, and doesn't further our knowledge on the subject. On evolution topics hard evidence is demanded time and time again, and when supporting evidence is posted, it's often refuted.

Would love to discuss but is off-topic

Originally posted by shaunybaby
However, a Christian seems to be able to say 'God is real because he told me'. On a board with a moto of deny ignorance, that really has no place, because we're accepting ignorance if we accept that statement.

Correction, we'd be accepting lack of evidence if we accept that statement. Everyone is guilty of this in one form or another. The aka of lack of evidence is 'trust'. Whenever you 'trust' anything, you're accepting without evidence. Are you ignorant for trusting?

p.s. I did not trust, I had to be shown. It's a more painful process but am glad it's over and done with than simply not knowing.

Originally posted by saint4God
Mighty assumptive of you, and might I add wrong. I could not read the Bible before knowing God therefore could not have gotten what He said out of it. The 'circular reasoning' does not pass validation in my case.

so god bestowed literacy upon ye?

no, you could actually read the bible prior to your belief. i read it now, and i do not believe.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
so god bestowed literacy upon ye?

no, you could actually read the bible prior to your belief.

Are you calling me a liar?

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
i read it now, and i do not believe.

Want a cookie?

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
so god bestowed literacy upon ye?

no, you could actually read the bible prior to your belief.

Are you calling me a liar?

Even if he is...let it go Brother
The Truth is The Truth

For all of us. Not up for debate. Not up for questioning.

Saint, it isnt our job to wrestle down non believers and jamb belief in thier faces.

Recall this...

“Let the one who does wrong, still do wrong; and the one who is filthy, still be filthy; and let the one who is righteous, still practice righteousness; and the one who is holy, still keep himself holy.”

Madness is well read as is JJ and others. What will be will be.
One day all will be revealed.

lets Move on.

Peace

Originally posted by shaunybaby
The only reason you think there is a conspiracy is because The Bible says there will be one.

Originally posted by saint4God
No it's not, I met people involved in it.

Have you not also pointed out specific quotes from The Bible? Such as Jesus saying along the lines of 'People will be against you'. So rather than it merely being a personal opinion of yours that there is an Anti-Christian conspiracy, it's also vital to show Jesus' words are true.

And just because you've met people involved, maybe they have a group called 'The we hate Jesus group of America'. How is this a conspiracy? The KKK are against black people, but it's not exactly a conspiracy.

Originally posted by saint4God
Correction, we'd be accepting lack of evidence if we accept that statement. Everyone is guilty of this in one form or another. The aka of lack of evidence is 'trust'. Whenever you 'trust' anything, you're accepting without evidence. Are you ignorant for trusting?

Nicely pulled around, now I'm the one who's ignorant because you base your beliefs on trust and hope. It is good to see that you're admitting there is lack of evidence, that God is far from fact, and relies on trust and hope.

Thought I'd throw this is in..

Matthew 6:5-6 ''When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites! They love to stand up and pray in the houses of worship and on the street corners, so that everyone will see them. I assure you, they have already been paid in full. But when you pray, go to your room, close the door, and pray to your father, who is unseen. And your father, who sees what you do in private, will reward you''.

Do churches, praying in public whether it be a school or communal place etc, not contradict what this passage says?

[edit on 21-9-2007 by shaunybaby]

Originally posted by HIFIGUY
Even if he is...let it go Brother

No worries HiFi, it doesn't affect me personally. Just trying to clarify his position.

Originally posted by HIFIGUY
The Truth is The Truth

For all of us. Not up for debate. Not up for questioning.

True, true.

Originally posted by HIFIGUY
Saint, it isnt our job to wrestle down non believers and jamb belief in thier faces.

Hehe, I'm not wrestling or jambing. Just talking.

Originally posted by HIFIGUY
Recall this...

“Let the one who does wrong, still do wrong; and the one who is filthy, still be filthy; and let the one who is righteous, still practice righteousness; and the one who is holy, still keep himself holy.”

Madness is well read as is JJ and others. What will be will be.
One day all will be revealed.

lets Move on.

Peace

This would require abandoning hope. I cannot do this.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
Have you not also pointed out specific quotes from The Bible?

Yes, but only because 1.) It was claimed the Bible said otherwise 2.) you said it was okay and/or 3.) Biblical address were given to those who believed in the Bible.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
Such as Jesus saying along the lines of 'People will be against you'. So rather than it merely being a personal opinion of yours that there is an Anti-Christian conspiracy, it's also vital to show Jesus' words are true.

His words are more important than mine. I wasn't appointed to die on a cross for everyone's sins. Also, we're talking about Christians, not saint4Godians. I hope to God for both of our sakes there are no saint4Godians

Originally posted by shaunybaby
And just because you've met people involved, maybe they have a group called 'The we hate Jesus group of America'. How is this a conspiracy? The KKK are against black people, but it's not exactly a conspiracy.

It's not? Again with the pseudo-equivalents. One cannot go around life templating what they know to things that are unrelated. Steak doesn't taste like chicken. They're both meat, but so what? Let's stay on topic.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
Nicely pulled around, now I'm the one who's ignorant because you base your beliefs on trust and hope. It is good to see that you're admitting there is lack of evidence, that God is far from fact, and relies on trust and hope.

For many people this is the case. As I had put in my p.s. that appears to have been omitted from my original response, it was not the case for me.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
Thought I'd throw this is in..

Matthew 6:5-6 ''When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites! They love to stand up and pray in the houses of worship and on the street corners, so that everyone will see them. I assure you, they have already been paid in full. But when you pray, go to your room, close the door, and pray to your father, who is unseen. And your father, who sees what you do in private, will reward you''.

Do churches, praying in public whether it be a school or communal place etc, not contradict what this passage says?

We do not love to stand up and pray in houses of worship and on the street corners so that everyone will see them. Don't care about that. We do pray together as Jesus and the disciples did in the gospels, Acts, the epistles, etc. This is an encouragement to go to our homes and throughout all the days of our week to pray one to one with God. One must take these into account as well:

"Glorify the LORD with me; let us exalt his name together." - Psalm 34:3

"For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them." - Matthew 18:20

Jesus isn't anti-church, he started it: "And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it." - Matthew 16:18

"They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers." - Acts 1:14

Don't harp on my quoting the Bible if you're going to quote it to me.

[edit on 21-9-2007 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God
Yes, but only because 1.) It was claimed the Bible said otherwise 2.) you said it was okay and/or 3.) Biblical address were given to those who believed in the Bible.

So by proving there's an anti-Christian conspiracy, you'd in turn be proving The Bible. So that's what it's really about isn't it.

Originally posted by saint4God
It's not? Again with the pseudo-equivalents. One cannot go around life templating what they know to things that are unrelated. Steak doesn't taste like chicken. They're both meat, but so what? Let's stay on topic.

Well if the KKK are a hate group, and this group/person you're on about is also in or trying to start a hate group, then yes I think it's okay to compare. It's to point out that yes there may be hate groups that are against Christianity, but as for this being a conspiracy, that's matter of opinion. And your opinion is swayed because The Bible states there will be a conspiracy. In the same way you hope and trust in God, you hope and trust there is a conspiracy.

Originally posted by saint4God
We do not love to stand up and pray in houses of worship and on the street corners so that everyone will see them. Don't care about that. We do pray together as Jesus and the disciples did in the gospels, Acts, the epistles, etc. This is an encouragement to go to our homes and throughout all the days of our week to pray one to one with God. One must take these into account as well:

"Glorify the LORD with me; let us exalt his name together." - Psalm 34:3

"For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them." - Matthew 18:20

Jesus isn't anti-church, he started it: "And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it." - Matthew 16:18

"They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers." - Acts 1:14

Don't harp on my quoting the Bible if you're going to quote it to me.

So in other words The Bible says one thing, i.e don't pray in churches like the hypocrites, and it specifically states you should lock the door to your room and pray alone. Yet, elsewhere it says it's okay to pray in churches, in communions, on street corners etc. It's a bit like God when he made the commandments 'thou shalt not kill', but then you can see in The Bible examples of where God has killed himself or ask man to kill. It's hypocrisy to the Nth degree.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
So by proving there's an anti-Christian conspiracy, you'd in turn be proving The Bible. So that's what it's really about isn't it.

That'd be a bonus, but I doubt that would constitue 'proof' the Bible is therefore valid.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
Well if the KKK are a hate group, and this group/person you're on about is also in or trying to start a hate group, then yes I think it's okay to compare.

Chicken and beef are both meat. But they're only alike in that regard.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
It's to point out that yes there may be hate groups that are against Christianity, but as for this being a conspiracy, that's matter of opinion.

Simple exercise. We have a dictionary. Compare the evidence to the dictionary.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
And your opinion is swayed because The Bible states there will be a conspiracy.

We're not here to discuss opinions, are we? The Bible is non-specific. I provided specifics.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
In the same way you hope and trust in God, you hope and trust there is a conspiracy.

Why in the world would I hope and trust for that?

Originally posted by shaunybaby
So in other words The Bible says one thing, i.e don't pray in churches like the hypocrites,

It doesn't say don't pray in churches, it does say don't pray in churches like the hypocrites. It says don't announce, babble, put on a show, etc. Let's review more of that chapter:

"Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
"So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. "

Originally posted by shaunybaby
and it specifically states you should lock the door to your room and pray alone.

Churches are supposed to be encouraging this as well.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
Yet, elsewhere it says it's okay to pray in churches, in communions, on street corners etc.

The issue Jesus has is not praying, it's about improper motivation and demonstrative self-righteousness.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
It's a bit like God when he made the commandments 'thou shalt not kill', but then you can see in The Bible examples of where God has killed himself or ask man to kill. It's hypocrisy to the Nth degree.

I'm glad you've brought up this point, it demonstrates involved thinking.

How many has the Lord created? We've created no one, by what right have we to take away life we did not give?

"The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away" - from Job 1:21

Speaking of jobs (pun there), do you complain because your boss is not doing what you do? Surely not. Is he/she a hypocrite? Her/His job is to manage their people to ensure they are doing their job properly. You job is what he has set before you to do. S/He has his role, you have yours.

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD." - Isaiah 55:8

"The Almighty is beyond our reach and exalted in power; in his justice and great righteousness, he does not oppress." - Job 37:33

This is why we are not to judge one another. Because He is the Judge.

[edit on 21-9-2007 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God
We're not here to discuss opinions, are we? The Bible is non-specific. I provided specifics.

No, it seems we're here to discuss 'hope' and 'trust'. I would like to know exactly why you think/know there is a conspiracy. I thought you would have wanted to share that with us. So far it's just people coming here saying 'I think there really is a conspiracy' or 'there is a conspiracy because I've met someone who is a part of it'. A lot of people seem to base the conspiracy on people hating Christianity, which is pure speculation.

Originally posted by saint4God
It doesn't say don't pray in churches, it does say don't pray in churches like the hypocrites. It says don't announce, babble, put on a show, etc. Let's review more of that chapter:

Lengthy biblical quote..

So in other words my interpretation of The Bible is wrong, and yours is right. Just thought we'd clear that up.

Originally posted by shaunybaby

Originally posted by saint4God
It doesn't say don't pray in churches, it does say don't pray in churches like the hypocrites. It says don't announce, babble, put on a show, etc. Let's review more of that chapter:

Lengthy biblical quote..

So in other words my interpretation of The Bible is wrong, and yours is right. Just thought we'd clear that up.

Before we go saying the Bible is the end statement on anything, consider this: Im not rapping the Bible, im tuninig perhaps our pereception.

Christ is quoted in another text to have said this...

The Lord answered and said to him, I tell thee also unto seventy times seven, for even in the Prophets, after they were anointed by the Spirits utterance of sin was found.

Utterance of sin means speaking in error.

One man says storm, another says angry water. Both mean turbulance in water. To what degree is up for debate.

One man says cup half full, the others says half capacity. Both speak of volume, another says equality.

We cannot stand on every literal word in the Bible because the context of the translation is approximate and not exact.

Gentlemen, I think we can all agree that we disagree.

God has been up against people not believing him since early in scripture. And as in age old scripture, people are verbally on each other tooth and nail.

So what if theres a conspiracy. No one is stopping me from pressing on with Love one another or trying to change things in the will of what is right, now is there.

Im especially suprised at Saint and I have alot of respect for you, but your not winning any hearts here,and I would ask that you shape your words in one to those of mending. Please

Put a nail in it. This thread is dead.

Peace


[edit on 22-9-2007 by HIFIGUY]

[edit on 22-9-2007 by HIFIGUY]

[edit on 22-9-2007 by HIFIGUY]

Because we hear your religion oppress others in the name of purely your own religion. there has been plenty of instances to prove christian don't always practice what they preach.
Where are the 'religious leaders' in this war debate- they're spurring it on. Our political leaders have even been so indoctrinated in this dogma that we're called a Christian Nation. I'm a recovering Catholic, and I resent that statement. I also find no room for comments regarding a Holy War- it's an oxymoron.
I'm an equal opportunity organized religion hater- I don't like anyone who pushes their personal philososphy on me. Religion is philosophy and christianity is just another example of a messed up philosophy - that has happened killed plenty of innocent people along its self righteous way.
My philosophy in life never asks for blood sacrifics- called by any name.
So when you announce to someone you are just meeting that your a Christian, don't expect CartBlanc- you could be talking to me.
If there is a god - all three major religions are heretics by their own standards. Jesus, David nor Mohammad should not be revered or followed over the Word of God.
I revere God (or nature) by admiring and caring for that which I have been given. I use the gifts (talents) I have been given and have worked to deveolp to be a assest to those around me. My heaven is here on earth. My judgement comes everyday when I look in the mirror. Isee God in the eyes of my family, friends, pets, flowers...Everything, because everything is awe inspiring enough to be godly. God is living and breathing around you ( that include the universe) and your job is to keep it going and improve it for the next group.
These three religions have acted like bullies on the play ground. they keep beating the hell out of each other, when they loss that fight they look for some other unsuspecing kid to beat the snot out of.
If you feel so free to claim your christianity- be ready for the little kid to kick you in the shins every once in awhile.
Basically they've all lost the "word" and the 'faith'
Your doctirnes, rituals and dogma are archiac and obsolete for any means towards human progess in the quest for world peace.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
No, it seems we're here to discuss 'hope' and 'trust'.

Nah, we have another thread for that. Probably better suited for Absolute Power of Christianity thread

Originally posted by shaunybaby
I would like to know exactly why you think/know there is a conspiracy. I thought you would have wanted to share that with us. So far it's just people coming here saying 'I think there really is a conspiracy' or 'there is a conspiracy because I've met someone who is a part of it'. A lot of people seem to base the conspiracy on people hating Christianity, which is pure speculation.

Should I name off the page numbers again? I would go back, but you were there for the discussion. Sorry it was missed then, but it's still there.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
So in other words my interpretation of The Bible is wrong, and yours is right. Just thought we'd clear that up.

It says what it says. If either of us are interpreting, then we're both wrong.

Originally posted by HIFIGUY
So what if theres a conspiracy. No one is stopping me from pressing on with Love one another or trying to change things in the will of what is right, now is there.

True dat.

Originally posted by HIFIGUY
Im especially suprised at Saint and I have alot of respect for you, but your not winning any hearts here,and I would ask that you shape your words in one to those of mending.

This is awareness, not necessitating action. Our Book tells us to be aware.

"in order that Satan might not outwit us. For we are not unaware of his schemes." - 2 Corinthians 2:11

"Be on your guard against men; they will hand you over to the local councils and flog you in their synagogues. On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles." - Matthew 10:17-18

"Be on your guard; stand firm in the faith; be men of courage; be strong." - 1 Corinthians 16:13

"Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position." - 2 Peter 3:17

There's more, but no sense belaboring

Originally posted by HIFIGUY
Please

Put a nail in it. This thread is dead.

That decision isn't up to either of us. Whether the thread continues or not, the conspiracy remains.

Originally posted by saint4God
Should I name off the page numbers again? I would go back, but you were there for the discussion. Sorry it was missed then, but it's still there.

Why is the evidence so far back in the discussion? If this conspiracy is really as big a deal as you're making it out to be, I would have expected more posts from you concerning evidence, rather than just general banter with various forum members.

Originally posted by saint4God
It says what it says. If either of us are interpreting, then we're both wrong.

So again you're telling me my interpretation of The Bible is wrong, and also that if I do interpret The Bible, that it's wrong to do so?

''Love thy neighbor'' doesn't mean love as in how you would love your wife, and it also doesn't just mean the person next door. Neighbor here can be substituted for every single person, whether they're a friend, family relative or even a stranger. So if we're not meant to interpret The Bible, then that would mean exactly what it says, and that you only need to love you neighbor, i.e the person next door, which would be ridiculous, as we know we interpret that to encompass everyone.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
Why is the evidence so far back in the discussion?

Because it would be rude to wait this long into the discussion O_o? It's an interesting question really. I'm wondering why I didn't state it on page 1, but if I recall correctly, I was a bit concerned about rattling cages early on. In retrospect, I didn't offend anyone, let alone those I thought I would. Maybe something I said on page 64 has a good answer...

"I've stated 3 times on the thread who the conspirators were, I can give names (if it weren't rude to do so), where they're located, what their agenda is, and how they go about doing it...yet... still no one would like to address that. I think one thing is for sure that this thread has proven, is no matter how direct I can be, all these "rabbit trails" and spin crop up when the issue is brought up. I wonder why that is... "

Originally posted by shaunybaby
If this conspiracy is really as big a deal as you're making it out to be, I would have expected more posts from you concerning evidence, rather than just general banter with various forum members.

I presented evidence and, well, see above quote.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
So again you're telling me my interpretation of The Bible is wrong, and also that if I do interpret The Bible, that it's wrong to do so?

Answering the latter question first, no-one should interpret because everybody's own interpretation of the Bible would be incorrect. It's to be read and understood, not interpreted:

"Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation." - 2 Peter 1:20

Truth is revealed, not interpreted.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
''Love thy neighbor'' doesn't mean love as in how you would love your wife, and it also doesn't just mean the person next door. Neighbor here can be substituted for every single person, whether they're a friend, family relative or even a stranger. So if we're not meant to interpret The Bible, then that would mean exactly what it says, and that you only need to love you neighbor, i.e the person next door, which would be ridiculous, as we know we interpret that to encompass everyone.

Aha! you got me with definition #1! ( www.m-w.com... ) If this were a game, you'd get the majority of the points and I'd take second place. I see what you mean, and in the case of "1 : to explain or tell the meaning of : present in understandable terms" I understand and agree one should clarify meanings if they are confusing.

I was thinking #2 definition "2 : to conceive in the light of individual belief, judgment, or circumstance : CONSTRUE"

This discussion caused me to look it up. I think we need a new and/or more specific language. Learn new stuff everyday

Okay okay, so I sit corrected in thinking there was one definition and will amend. My statements stand for definition #2, but for #1 there should only be one meaning with multiple applications. Parabolically (definition #1 www.m-w.com... ) this will be the case much more often than usual, though Jesus clarifies what he means as well.

[edit on 24-9-2007 by saint4God]

Start at rule #1: Love God and Love One another. Enemy or otherwise

Rule #2: If in doubt, refer to rule #1

Peace

Originally posted by HIFIGUY
Start at rule #1: Love God and Love One another. Enemy or otherwise

Rule #2: If in doubt, refer to rule #1

it's odd that the second part of rule #1 doesn't seem to apply to god...
just look at the midianites or sodom and gomorrah

reply to post by saint4God


you interpret (using def #2) as much as anyone else reading the book.

do you think "wives submit to your husbands" and "the man is the head of the house" and "women are the weaker vessel" etc etc is anything but misogyny?

if so, then you are interpreting (def #2)

[edit on 9/25/07 by madnessinmysoul]

Originally posted by saint4God
"I've stated 3 times on the thread who the conspirators were, I can give names (if it weren't rude to do so), where they're located, what their agenda is, and how they go about doing it...yet... still no one would like to address that.

How much time does it take to post that information right here right now. Probably less time than it takes to keep going on about how you've already posted this information. I can't address something if there's nothing to address.

Am I right in thinking you think Satanism is part of the conspiracy?..

Originally posted by saint4God
Satanism. Though maybe not apparent, the fringes of which can be seen as ripples in society. The closer you get to the rock that's dropped into the pond, the clearer that becomes. Satanism. Not "soft Satanism" that doesn't believe in Satan, but those who worship the devil as lord and master Satanism. Not Dana Carvey "church lady" Satanism, but those who meet and carry out sacrifices to him, torture, intimidate, and practice hedonism on an organized (though they claim chaos) basis.

Exactly how is this a conspiracy against Christianity? If anything they show a very similar likeness to Christianity. The Bible is full or sacrificing, torture, intimidation etc.