The Anti-Christian conspiracy

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


As much as I agree with some of your points the Israeli government are not the radical Jews. The radicals are the Satmirs who dont believe Israel should be a state.

Also we Jews have been given the s*** for almost as long as we've walked the earth. And as for exterminating the Palestinians thats after theyve been attacking Israeli cities since its birth. I mean look at us americans when japan attacked Pearl Harbor we used 2 nuclear bombs on them... thats over kill and unnesscary if you ask me however if canadians or mexicans began raid on our border cities we'd blow every single city of theirs up with tactical nukes. Thats just how I see it.

Originally posted by saint4God
Ah yes, more proof of the Anti-Christian conspiracy diverting the topic to how Christianity is responsible for all wars in history

. I guess we're still on topic then (albeit a rather indirect route) so all is normal with the world.

This is a forum for open discussions. For people to come here and voice opinions about the world they live in. Do you really expect everyone to agree with you, come here and say 'I LOVE CHRISTIANITY'?

I couldn't care less that Jesus said 'Love thy neighbour'. Jesus went to the temple and smashed the place up, were these not his neighbours? People still took The Bible and used it to further their own agenda, which included murdering, slaughtering and so on. That's a fact. This isn't me being anti-Christian, this is me pointing out history to you.

I think you need to work on your issues with non-Christians.

Originally posted by KezigluBey
As much as I agree with some of your points the Israeli government are not the radical Jews. The radicals are the Satmirs who dont believe Israel should be a state.

and then there are the radicals on the other end that believe you should wipe out all the palestinians.

Also we Jews have been given the s*** for almost as long as we've walked the earth.

really? there were quite a few centuries where you ran a semi-stable state on the lands of people you ethnically cleansed...

And as for exterminating the Palestinians thats after theyve been attacking Israeli cities since its birth.

...what do you expect from people who had their land taken away without ANY compensation?

I mean look at us americans when japan attacked Pearl Harbor we used 2 nuclear bombs on them... thats over kill and unnesscary if you ask me however if canadians or mexicans began raid on our border cities we'd blow every single city of theirs up with tactical nukes. Thats just how I see it.

except america isn't built on land that was simply taken from mexico... well, the western half was taken in the mexican-american war...
but your analogy fails until you realize the massive atrocities that the jews have handed out to the palestinians.

the simple fact is that israel has no legitimate claim to the land, no proper argument could be thrown in that would support it's original creation. the holocaust? well... why didn't the roma people get their own state?

which side do you think has killed more civilians?
if you said israelis, you'd be right!

Originally posted by shaunybaby
Do you really expect everyone to agree with you, come here and say 'I LOVE CHRISTIANITY'?

Not at all. If that were the case, there would be no need for me to be here.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
I couldn't care less that Jesus said 'Love thy neighbour'. Jesus went to the temple and smashed the place up, were these not his neighbours?

Yes he did and yes they were. Are you saying he wasn't loving his neighbour by making them aware of them cheating the people in their money exchange and selling them blemished animals when the law says not to?

Originally posted by shaunybaby People still took The Bible and used it to further their own agenda, which included murdering, slaughtering and so on. That's a fact. This isn't me being anti-Christian, this is me pointing out history to you.

You're right, they did and they were wrong. But we're not talking about people who bastardized what the Book says, we're talking about Christians.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
I think you need to work on your issues with non-Christians.

I am, are we not talking? Or had you a change of heart since last we spoke?

[edit on 6-9-2007 by saint4God]

As an American I can say where I sit was a result of imperialistic genocide. We made treaties, we broke treaties, we went to war. Some inclusions were the slaughter of Native Americans, war with Mexicans, and slavery for Chinese and African Americans, we had our 'Manifest Destiny' and it wasn't going to stop over a silly thing like morals (sarcasm). We owe a lot to people of every race and culture. If we can't give the land back, we should at least draw boarders with guns and fences. The word "American" and "Christian" are not synonymous (which is why this thread is not about Anti-Americanism). I'm in the land, but I'm not of the land. Hopefully us Americans now see and realize why such atrocities must never occur again, else we say "freedom" from the left side of our mouth and "death" from the right side of our mouth.

[edit on 6-9-2007 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God
You're right, they did and they were wrong. But we're not talking about people who bastardized what the Book says, we're talking about Christians.

So you judge who is a true Christian and who isn't?

I'd say that's the most Anti-Christian thing on this forum.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
So you judge who is a true Christian and who isn't?

There are certain doctrines that are necessary for one to be considered a true Christian. Many call themselves Christian, but the Bible defines what makes one a Christian. That they love the Lord with all their hearts, with all their soul, with all their mind and with all their strength is the foundational aspect, but the cornerstone of that foundation lies in the bodily resurrection of Christ, thereby showing that sin has lost its power and that He was victorious over death. Were He not to have come back from the grave, bodily, our faith would be in vain. 1 John 1:6 states,

If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth.

That is, however, something that we are expected to do ourselves, to test our salvation, as Paul writes. That isn't judging others. However, John does go on to write in 1 John 2:18-23, 26:

Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth. I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray.

We are not called, as Christians, to just accept anyone who says they're a Christian at face value. That is foolishness that is actually addressed in First Corinthians when Paul says to confront anyone who has not only embraced sin but began teaching it to remove them from the Church.

The Western world today is trying to say that everyone's right, and one person's truth has just as much validity as another person's truth, even if they're in direct contradiction. Christianity, on the other hand, should be saying the exact opposite, and a message that should ring true to the motto of this website: there is a truth, and you can discover it if you seek it.

Originally posted by junglejake
There are certain doctrines that are necessary for one to be considered a true Christian.

Again this is your interpretation of what a 'true' Christian is. My interpretation of a Christian would be anyone who accepts the Christian God and accepts Jesus as their Saviour and Lord.

To go around saying, 'You,re not Christian, you're not Christian, you're okay, you're not Christian' is far more Anti-Christian than anything I've seen on this thread.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
Again this is your interpretation of what a 'true' Christian is. My interpretation of a Christian would be anyone who accepts the Christian God and accepts Jesus as their Saviour and Lord.

Interestingly enough, we agree here. I think it may just be an issue in the communication of that. I tend to add for more detail in my writing than is necessary, such as defining what it means to accept someone as both savior and Lord. And this

To go around saying, 'You,re not Christian, you're not Christian, you're okay, you're not Christian' is far more Anti-Christian than anything I've seen on this thread.

Again, we pretty much agree. I wouldn't say it's anti-Christian, as anti-Christian, in my understanding, would be working against Christ and denying who He is in an evangelical manner. My understanding is often flawed, though I do agree, though, that it is not our place to judge individuals and their relationship to God. At the same time, some are called not to idly sit by as a false Christ is preached. Someone who says they follow Christ, but haven't accepted Him as Lord, and preach that He needn't be, is wrong. Yet, people can falsely embrace this. It is written in 1 Timothy 1:3-4:

As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work—which is by faith.

And in 1 Timothy 4:1-6:

The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.

If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.

So we are called to speak out against these things. I know I have said things I know to be false now. That doesn't mean my heart wasn't for Christ at the time, but that I was speaking out of ignorance and needed correction.

So I agree, we shouldn't say you're a Christian, you're not (you made me think of that quitting scene from Half Baked ), but we should correct false understanding -- that is a Christian thing to do.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
So you judge who is a true Christian and who isn't?

God is the judge, His Word decides. That word is written for us to read, I merely read it. Thanks for expanding and giving details on that JJ. I'd trust him to be brother enough to tell me when I'm wrong as well.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
I'd say that's the most Anti-Christian thing on this forum.

Don't merely listen to me , go to Him and ask. Read the book written about God. Answers are there, I'm not needed.

[edit on 7-9-2007 by saint4God]

[Dup Post, this space for rent]

[edit on 7-9-2007 by saint4God]

Originally posted by shaunybaby
My interpretation of a Christian would be anyone who accepts the Christian God and accepts Jesus as their Saviour and Lord.

Your interpretation is correct. I'd argue that you're not interpreting scripture here, rather repeating a fact of what a Christian is according to God (proof in John 3:16 and several others).

Excepting Jesus as Lord means doing as he tells you to: love you neighbor, love your enemy, etc.

"Now Jesus' mother and brothers came to see him, but they were not able to get near him because of the crowd. Someone told him, "Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to see you."

He replied, "My mother and brothers are those who hear God's word and put it into practice." - Luke 8:19-21

Unfortunately that means no matter how many Sunday services you've sat through, they'll not merit being a follower of Christ (Christian).

[edit on 7-9-2007 by saint4God]

I admit, it's HARD to believe there is a God. I used to be an atheist, and nearly everyday I pity those that prays and later on, that pity turns to envy, like a jaded old man envy an oblivious child with blind faith.

How can you believe in God when so much of what we go through and see is pain and sufferings? What kind of sick mind would thank God for anyhthing? Especially seeing how AIDS, cancer, poverty and inequality, gross injustice have afflicted us.

Yet, I believe now, just sitting here and taking a break from work while typing this reply, I stopped and looked at my own hands, and looking the picture of my wife here. Love, hate, life, death...no, it's no coincidence...

Originally posted by junglejake
We are not called, as Christians, to just accept anyone who says they're a Christian at face value. That is foolishness that is actually addressed in First Corinthians when Paul says to confront anyone who has not only embraced sin but began teaching it to remove them from the Church.

The Western world today is trying to say that everyone's right, and one person's truth has just as much validity as another person's truth, even if they're in direct contradiction. Christianity, on the other hand, should be saying the exact opposite, and a message that should ring true to the motto of this website: there is a truth, and you can discover it if you seek it.

Well said.

Start with a Simpler Truth: " Love one Another"

In an extent where the world becomes a Utopia. No War, No Hate, No Anger, No starvation. One world working in Unison

Christianity will not achieve this through debate..but by Love.

Jake is correct. Christians are not Christians merely because they say that Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior, for one cannot do one thing while they practice another.

One cannot drop bombs and be following Christs command.
One cannot drop bombs and love the enemey as thyself.

Shower the world with acts of Kindness and selflessness...this is the start.

Christs love of all without discrimination is what will and can make the world work. Not Christians bantering non believers or Non believers blaming Christians for the worlds woes.

Mankind and his selfish and heartless practices are to blame. Profit, gluttony and greed. Self Gratification and elevation of ones self over another.

Only when we all see the world as even, One World, under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all....will we achieve unity.
United we Stand, Divided we fall. Not just for a country, but for a planet

Let us show how the world can be by being the mustard seed where we are planted.

Peace


[edit on 8-9-2007 by HIFIGUY]

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


We (Americans (and the WASPs who were controlling the government)) have almost completly exterminated the native populants of North american and have forced them onto reservations.

[edit on 8-9-2007 by KezigluBey]

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


Can you back up your statements with proof that the Jews ethnically cleansed their land for a period of time ?

Originally posted by KezigluBey
reply to post by madnessinmysoul

 

Can you back up your statements with proof that the Jews ethnically cleansed their land for a period of time ?

well... that's what they claim in their own holy book. the slaughter of middianites, canaanites, and philistines.

Originally posted by KezigluBey
reply to post by madnessinmysoul

 

We (Americans (and the WASPs who were controlling the government)) have almost completly exterminated the native populants of North american and have forced them onto reservations.

well... i wouldn't happen to be an american (i'm maltese, though i do hold an american citizenship alongside my maltese one) nor would i happen to be an anglo saxon protestant.

and the initial cause of the extermination of the native americans?
survey says: RELIGION!

Saint and JJ you've not really understood what I've said. For example, Saint specifically judges Christians from the 11th to 13th century, who participated in the Crusades, hence murdering etc, by saying that they're not true Christians, as they're not following Christ's words of 'Love thy neighbour'. This is Saint's judgement, when I point this out, I get the response: 'God is the judge, His Word decides'. However, I don't see in Saint's sentence where God was doing the judging.

I've met Christians who don't see The Pope as an authority figure, most likely because they're not Catholics. I've also met Christians who see Catholics as false/non-Christians. I just find it funny that you can come on this thread and shout about Anti-Christian things in the world, yet you can't even be accepting of other Christians who interpret The Bible differently to you.

So if Christians can't even be accepting of groups that believe in Jesus, then how do they ever expect non-Christian groups to be accepting.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
by saying that they're not true Christians, as they're not following Christ's words of 'Love thy neighbour'.

Sounds like the 'no true scotsman' fallacy

en.wikipedia.org...

Unless the definition of christian is someone who loves their neighbour. It essentially suggests that christians move in and out of christianity according to their actions. Thus, I think Jesus says something about anger being bad, thus when a christian is angry, he suddenly becomes a non-christian.

In fact, considering all christians consider themselves sinners, wouldn't that say that none of them are actually Xians unless they are equivalent in character to Jesus?

Not sure, leave that to people who care to figure out.

Uhhh well if we are going with techinicallities the Pope is going to go to hell under his own preaching... Greed = one of the 7 cardinal sins. Jesus didnt have a pillow to constantly sleep on but the Pope has a City.