The Anti-Christian conspiracy

Originally posted by sisterwendy
judge not lest you be judge.

if that's the case then Jesus sinned, hence he would not be perfect.

he judged the money lenders in the temple, and after judging them and coming to the conclusion that they were doing wrong, he turned over their tables and went mental. i would say that is passing judgement on the money lenders in the temples. Jesus sinned...

i'm sure however, as always there will be some loop hole christians will use to get out of this inconsistancy.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
i'm sure however, as always there will be some loop hole christians will use to get out of this inconsistancy.

Think of it like this shauny,judge but judge wisely because you will be held accountable for how you judged.

You think Jesus sinned because he got mad at people disrespecting a place which is suppossed to be for worship

Yeah right shauny its a loop hole,if anyone else who rightly gets annoyed is going
to be judged for doing what God expects or would approve of.

Ephesians 6
11Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

The above instuction for us would be pretty hard to do without judging,the emphisis is get it right or be judged likewise as God would approve,if in doubt dont judge,because everything will be taken into account of your life.

Though i dont see this being any help to you either shaunybaby,you think you know better even when your not a christian? your a christian troll,and yes thats a judgement.

ohright so it's o.k if jesus judges people, and also if that judgement is wise?

o.k yeah i've got it now.

and yes jesus showed a classic sign of a deadly sin... anger (wraith) or whatever you want to call it, by turning over those tables in the temple. so yes he did sin. he's supposed to be sinless, yet there he is sinning... hmmmm.

you think you know better even when your not a christian?

hah, that's a good one. this coming from the religion that thinks it's above everyone else.

your a christian troll,and yes thats a judgement.

it's called free thought. you should try it sometime, as your brain seems to be turned to mush as you've been reading too many bible fables. i've read those same fables, except i don't believe in kiddy stories, i grew out of that when i was about 8. maybe it's time you did too.

Originally posted by gps777
Though i dont see this being any help to you either shaunybaby,you think you know better even when your not a christian? your a christian troll,and yes thats a judgement.

I think you've brought a lot of good things to say here gps777, and hope you continue to do so, but I'm gonna have to side with Shauny on this one. I agree with you that this statement is a judgement. I also agree that this is exactly the same kind of judgement Christ warns us about. By attaching such a label on someone, you're stating the purpose of their whole existance is to be/do only that. Or, more specifically, that this is all that they are. There is a problem, at least in my mind. In talking to Shauny, I believe he is more than that. Yes, the topic that always comes up around here is Christianity and he presents many challenges towards it. Yet, I don't think this makes him a troll. It also suggests that he is incapable of understanding or comprehension of anything other than asserting his opinion. Again, something I'd disagree with per his posts. Though he may not be able to see things from a Christian perspective I'd have to ask, when you were not a Christian, could you see things from a Christian perspective? I know I could not.

I believe the verse Shauny is referring to is when Jesus said:

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?"

One of the reasons I believe we are not to judge is because we do so harshly, with the lack of love and understanding necessary to help another person. By judging, we've now separated ourselves from the other person, built a wall, and otherwise collapsed any bridge of exchange. How then are we to reach anyone if we cannot relate? All of us here on earth are human. All of us sin. All of us had at least one period in our lives when we did not believe. How then are we that different than each other? How can we reach out to anyone when we're standing on our own pillar?

Originally posted by shaunybaby
ohright so it's o.k if jesus judges people, and also if that judgement is wise?

To compliment that, in Revelation, all stand before the judgement seat...and guess who is doing the judging? He is able to do so because he lived a life without sin.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
o.k yeah i've got it now.

and yes jesus showed a classic sign of a deadly sin... anger (wraith) or whatever you want to call it, by turning over those tables in the temple. so yes he did sin. he's supposed to be sinless, yet there he is sinning... hmmmm.

Where is it written that anger, or even wrath (as His father enacted) is a sin?

Originally posted by shaunybaby
hah, that's a good one. this coming from the religion that thinks it's above everyone else.

I agree this would be a problem. But, not all Christians think this, as we are directed to in the Bible not to. So if you're saying Christians sin, then I yes this is true.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
it's called free thought. you should try it sometime, as your brain seems to be turned to mush as you've been reading too many bible fables. i've read those same fables, except i don't believe in kiddy stories, i grew out of that when i was about 8. maybe it's time you did too.

I'm curious as to how you "grew out of that" if you don't mind expanding on this point. You'd mentioned it before, I just wasn't alert enough to ask.

Originally posted by saint4God
I'm curious as to how you "grew out of that" if you don't mind expanding on this point. You'd mentioned it before, I just wasn't alert enough to ask.

I was never a regular church goer, such as going every sunday. But we'd always have prayer in my first primary school, and even in middle school, hence ranging from about age 5 to 12.

Back then I wasn't as aware of what was going on, we'd say grace before lunch, a prayer at the end of the day, and if we had a school assembly, we'd either sing Godly hyms or say the Lord's prayer. I can still recite some lines from the Lord's prayer today, as it was so embedded in to my mind, that I didn't even need to think about the words, they came out without thought.

This sort of forcefullness to place Christianity in the minds of such young children is wrong. Children are like sponges, they absorb everything around them, words, pictures, and religion. If we're told one thing, we believe it. Children very rarely question their existence, and why would they need to when they have the bible, prayer, and teachers (people in some sort of authority to children) are telling them 'God made you, the earth and so on'.

This is what my fight is against. Not religion on it's own. I have no fear or worry about a person being religious if it's his own free will. What I have a problem with are the people who are today religious, ONLY because they were brought up with it. Sure there are many who don't grow up to carry on their religious past, like me, but there are many who after learning all of that when they were children, cannot break out of that mindset. It's simply wrong.

There was no motive in primary school to teach us about religion, as in the respect of all religions, it was pure Christianity shoved down our throats 5 days a week. It was not until middle school when we started to learn about other religions, and even then the school would still carry on this purely Christian motive behind everything.

Christianity has been de-religionised. The fact that easter and christmas are no longer celebrations of the birth, death, and rise of Christ, they are mere commercial ways for corporations to bleed consumers dry. I don't believe Jesus died for my sins, but I still celebrate his birth by having a turkey on christmas day. I also don't believe he died and rose again, yet I still have my easter egg around easter. The two most important holidays in the Christian calendar, and they have almost nothing to do with Christianity anymore. And schools, with this forcefullness of Christianity on young impressionable minds is outright wrong. This is what I mean by 'de-religionised'.

And to answer your question saintforgod, this is why I am not a Christian. And the way that I see Christianity has effected the way I see all organized religion. I am a member of the human race, I live life, I love life, and no God, group, cult, or consumer trend will sink their teeth in to me. I'm a free-thinker, I grew up...maybe it's time the rest of the world followed.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
ohright so it's o.k if jesus judges people, and also if that judgement is wise?

It may seem strange or contradictory to you but yes.

Jesus did judge though taught and showed compassion mercy and forgiveness,if say for instance when Jesus spoke to the masses a man followed Him around just to heckle Him only for the sake of heckling,i cannot imagine Jesus putting up with it for long without putting him in his place.The words Christ spoke would not draw disrespect though, accept from those who hate for the sake of hate or ones position was threatened by them or they were possessed etc,which is frustrating with you shauny which one are you?i could take a guess.

4and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" 6They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." 8Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

9At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"

11"No one, sir," she said.
"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

Notice again shauny Jesus judging the whole lot of them?though did He condemn them?Jesus did`nt say "no thats not a sin,do what ever you like".The individuals have a choice however.As we all do.

o.k yeah i've got it now.

I`ll have to take that as more sarcasm?i`ll like to know if there is anything anyone has said to you concerning God that you could truly say has helped your life.If so it would help me in not being frustrated seeing nothing but attacks to something that does deserve it.

and yes jesus showed a classic sign of a deadly sin... anger
this coming from the religion that thinks it's above everyone else.

Saint4God covered this very well.I hope it helped

it's called free thought.

Or will,your will is wrongly directed as of your first comment i saw on a Christian debate thread being "i`m going to prove God doesn`t exist any way possible"for myself i don't hold much fear in being judged for calling you a Christian troll.Though i admit i may get a smack for it,but not condemned.

you should try it sometime

Free will,i have as much as you have.Embarassingly to admit there was a time in my life when i prayed to God to just make me like everyone else.What an insult that was to Him after what He had done for me.

as your brain seems to be turned to mush as you've been reading too many bible fables.

Thats not a personal attack?But thats all right even the mods only see Christians as the attackers here don't they.The anti-Christian conspiracy rolls on.

i've read those same fables, except i don't believe in kiddy stories

Another attack,as all Christians in the world are immature and we all should take shaunys view and become mature.

i grew out of that when i was about 8. maybe it's time you did too.

You didn`t grow out of anything,you didn`t grow into it to begin with.How can a child of 8 make that decision?.

1 Corinthians
10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror;

Its also easier sometimes for others to see yourself.
Above that quote in the bible was...

4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Which is beautiful,i get the protect and anger intermingled,something i will endeavor to do better, more than what you may of witnessed shauny,not as an excuse my anger stems from a history of abuse which i rebelled against any form of it which is something you and i shauny have in common yet your rebellion is an attack on something that is my cure and hopefully one day you see it as your own,God saved me from it,i react mostly when i see abuse something which is not easy for myself to rid completely or overcome more so in real life let alone cyber space.
Though it should be Christs way of fighting not my own i agree Saint4God.

Originally posted by gps777
Or will,your will is wrongly directed as of your first comment i saw on a Christian debate thread being "i`m going to prove God doesn`t exist any way possible"for myself i don't hold much fear in being judged for calling you a Christian troll.Though i admit i may get a smack for it,but not condemned.

Well you judge me on something I wrote, I can't remember how long ago, but i'm guessing over a year. The past is history, lets live the present shall we.

Free will,i have as much as you have.Embarassingly to admit there was a time in my life when i prayed to God to just make me like everyone else.What an insult that was to Him after what He had done for me.

You don't have as much free will as me. Your free will goes about as far as what you think God wants or what the bible tells you to want. Hardly free will.

Thats not a personal attack?But thats all right even the mods only see Christians as the attackers here don't they.The anti-Christian conspiracy rolls on.

Well there have been numerous occasions when i've writen something i probably shouldn't have, but then again there's been the same amount if not more directed at me from christians. It's give and take, i can take, but christians can't. they sure can dish it out though, judge (but not condemn) yet when it comes to taking judgement, they scream 'anti christian hate conspiracy'.

Another attack,as all Christians in the world are immature and we all should take shaunys view and become mature.

actually i learnt about all those stories when i was a kid, hence why i see them as 'kiddie stories'. we learnt about them in the same respect as we'd listen to fables like jack and jill. all about morals, trying to push them on to children in story form, including biblical form.

i really think the bible should open with something like 'all characters in this book are based on real people, however stories and events may be minipulated to enforce the power of God'.

You didn`t grow out of anything,you didn`t grow into it to begin with.How can a child of 8 make that decision?.

i did, i grew up and realised what rubbish was being shoved down my throat 5 days a week. to the point where i hated christianity because of my upbringing in a school with it. it's just simply wrong to do that to young impressionable minds. today i have no need for religion or god.

however, you do seem to have a need for god and religion. almost in the same respect as modern consumerism, where someone always needs to have the latest haircut, clothes, style and so on. they need that fashion life, and celebrity-esque wannabe lifestyle, just like you need your god and religion lifestyle. no difference. you're both buying in to something; in consumerism with money, and in god with your life.

[edit on 28-4-2006 by shaunybaby]

Jesus overthrew the moneychangers...Jesus DID feel anger ...God said Be ye angry and sin not...Anger is not a sin. The mere understanding of this scripture is, that by SELLING in the temple was a statement that God could be bought out...HE cannot be bought or sold. Jesus KNEW this truth would be rejected..HE didn't act out of context...HE was in His devine rightful authority.
* As far as the christian persecution? When I look at what the apostles anddeciples went thru we are not persecuted...I think it would matter more to GOD on HOW we approach it with the truth:-) If they hear not our request, leave our gift at the altar and go in peace...blessed are you when you are persecuted for the gospels sake..

Originally posted by saint4God
but I'm gonna have to side with Shauny on this one.

no problem

you're stating the purpose of their whole existance is to be/do only that. Or, more specifically, that this is all that they are. There is a problem, at least in my mind. In talking to Shauny, I believe he is more than that.

It may appear thats all i`m saying but i have always........

I believe he is more than that.

As per anyone else.

Yes, the topic that always comes up around here is Christianity and he presents many challenges towards it. Yet, I don't think this makes him a troll. It also suggests that he is incapable of understanding or comprehension of anything other than asserting his opinion.

Could probably debate that,but pointless.

Though he may not be able to see things from a Christian perspective I'd have to ask, when you were not a Christian, could you see things from a Christian perspective? I know I could not.

Ahh great question,when i look back and remember Christians i used to work with sure i could`nt see things from their perspective,though never joined in with mocking insulting or abusing them.

On one occasion however an extremely nice Christian guy i worked with came out to a pub with the rest of us meat heads,we were all getting drunk and carrying on listening to a heavy rock band(zeppelin ac/dc etc type)the Christian guy went to the toilet,when he left i poured beer into his glass of lemonade and the rest of the guys were laughing along,he came back and was about to take a drink and i had a sudden panic attack and stopped him and apologized very sincerely,i began to wonder why that was seeing i would not have any reservations in pulling pranks on the rest of my mates.This and many similar events were deciding factors of my questioning right/wrong good/evil and where i was supposed to be in it all until it eventually sent me to a head on collision to and with God.
So i can nearly safely say" no" even when i did`nt understand would`nt attack something or someone i didn`t think deserved it especially decent harmless people what ever their belief.

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?"

Quite true and in pointing this out run the risk of committing the same.Though i do understand,hence my response of whether you do it correctly.

One of the reasons I believe we are not to judge is because we do so harshly, with the lack of love and understanding necessary to help another person.

True,though i do believe also in saying something that would be beneficial for that particular person to get the cogs turning.My methods or words need refining i agree.

By judging, we've now separated ourselves from the other person, built a wall, and otherwise collapsed any bridge of exchange. How then are we to reach anyone if we cannot relate?

I can only hope that this has`nt happened,because i don`t feel i can`t relate to anyone,i also hope they can relate to my life or experiences,and question there own.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
Well you judge me on something I wrote, I can't remember how long ago, but i'm guessing over a year. The past is history, lets live the present shall we.

And if i told you i was a reptilian a year ago,you would have an impression of my character,unless your saying this is`nt your goal in life now i`ll think otherwise?

You don't have as much free will as me. Your free will goes about as far as what you think God wants or what the bible tells you to want. Hardly free will.

We all have the same amount of free will,we can choose to obey Gods word or not,going in circles here.

Well there have been numerous occasions when i've writen something i probably shouldn't have.

Good to see you do`nt think your infallible either.

but then again there's been the same amount if not more directed at me from christians.

Debatable from both perspectives but pointless.

It's give and take, i can take, but christians can't.

And this is`nt a superior mentality?

they sure can dish it out though, judge (but not condemn) yet when it comes to taking judgment, they scream 'anti christian hate conspiracy'.

Maybe from your perspective,but do you ask yourself what you contributed to the screaming.

actually i learnt about all those stories when i was a kid, hence why i see them as 'kiddie stories'.

Actually this isn`t the question i asked,have anything from all the banter you have been involved with here about God helped you in your life?

i really think the bible should open with something like 'all characters in this book are based on real people, however stories and events may be minipulated to enforce the power of God'.

Ok thats your opinion from your perspective.How do you think others may view your comments when they believe otherwise,or does`nt that matter to you?

i did, i grew up and realised what rubbish was being shoved down my throat 5 days a week.

By 8 you grew up and realized it was rubbish?did you still believe in santa and the easter bunny?

however, you do seem to have a need for god and religion.

Need yes but its more than need,I thought a bit on that one and its hard to put into words.Choice comes to mind,if you had an experience shauny with God and you gave your life to Him and He came into it so there can be no doubt,how would that be put into a word if one exists?

almost in the same respect as modern consumerism, where someone always needs to have the latest haircut, clothes, style and so on.

Normally i`d say that is insulting,which it is,but can only assume you dont know any better than that.

you're both buying in to something; in consumerism with money, and in god with your life.

A life i wanted to give up,a life i was sick of,He reached in and ripped the guts out of me put me back together all better in a blink of an eye,and said now what are you going to do for me.
Funny how He only accepts and makes Himself real to people willing to do that or when their heart is in the right place for Him.Until then people will run around all over the place trying to get proof or try and disprove He does`nt exist.

[edit on 28-4-2006 by gps777]

Originally posted by gps777
And if i told you i was a reptilian a year ago,you would have an impression of my character,unless your saying this is`nt your goal in life now i`ll think otherwise?

that wasn't my point. my point was, don't judge people on what they said over a year or more ago.

some people say you can neither prove nor disprove god. however, saint4god has said on many occasions there is 'personal proof'. so i'm here finding personal proof that god doesn't exist, although i shouldn't really need anymore, my thoughts on this subject are obviously clear.

We all have the same amount of free will,we can choose to obey Gods word or not,going in circles here.

yeah to a certain extent you can 'choose' to obey god's word. however, how much 'choice' do you really have in life. how many times to you think you've been minipulated in to believing something, or maybe buying something, and you did so thinking you had a 'choice'.

for example if you're at the check out, you pay for a loaf of bread and that's all you bought, then you end up picking up a pack of sweets, two chocolate bars and a pack of gum, and the only reason you did was because they were right at the checkout. did you 'choose' those extra products, or were you impulsively buying them because they were right at the check out. how much of that was free will and choice? i'd say not a lot. that's just pure marketing on the shop side of things. they put things that because they know people will pick up items like gum, chocolate bars and buy them without 'thinking' and without making a concious decision.

in life we have a certain amount of choice. but that choice is always being affected in someway or another. i can choose not to obey god because i don't believe in him. you would have a much harder time, as would saint4god, because you might think you're going to hell...

Debatable from both perspectives but pointless.

it's really not. there have been people on here who in the heat of the moment ended getting a warning because of one too many personal attacks on me, and yes they were christian. i've also done the same. not really sure where the 'debate' on this is, as it's fact, not opinion.

And this is`nt a superior mentality?

well you've shown that you can't take. you can't accept that there were christians on this board that actually personally attacked me on here. you also can't accept that christians can't take, as you're showing that right now.

Maybe from your perspective,but do you ask yourself what you contributed to the screaming.

i didn't contribute anything to that. it's the christians doing the 'anti christianity conspiracy' whining. i'm here trying to show there is no conspiracy. but saint4god has already made up his mind on this matter, he believes the conspiracy to be fact, just like he believes god is fact.

Actually this isn`t the question i asked,have anything from all the banter you have been involved with here about God helped you in your life?

you complained about me saying biblie stories were 'kiddie stories'. i was explaining why i call them kiddie storie...because i learnt about them on the same level as other kiddie stories.

i'm not here to help my life. i could leave this discussion tomorrow, heck i didn't post for about a month on this topic. i don't 'need' to, but i 'choose' to. i choose to, because i feel there's something to defend here, and that is because i believe there is no actualy conspiracy, it's just whining christians. and is that a personal attack? 'whining christians'? no. because you are whining...

Ok thats your opinion from your perspective.How do you think others may view your comments when they believe otherwise,or does`nt that matter to you?

i wrote that as a humerous joke. obviously you didn't like it. and no i'm not worried about what others think of my opinion. that's what it is 'my opinion'. just because there's christians on here with their philosophies created from the bible, i'm not going to ease up, or avoid saying something just because they choose to believe in some collection of books. and i wouldn't expect anything else from christians. when a christian says something like 'god is real, jesus performed miracles' that shows no respect for my beliefs... so why should i show respect for theirs? that's their opinion, and i have my opinion.

By 8 you grew up and realized it was rubbish?did you still believe in santa and the easter bunny?

who said anything about being 8?

i can't remember when i stopped believing in santa, and i don't think i ever believed in the easter bunny. then again did i really 'believe' in santa, or did i just 'think' he was real because i got some present saying 'from santa' each year... i'd hardly call that a belief in santa.

Need yes but its more than need,I thought a bit on that one and its hard to put into words.Choice comes to mind,if you had an experience shauny with God and you gave your life to Him and He came into it so there can be no doubt,how would that be put into a word if one exists?

i don't see why for 19 years i wouldn't have an experience for god, and then all of a sudden have one. hypothetically, i'll deal with that if that 'ever' happens though.

Normally i`d say that is insulting,which it is,but can only assume you dont know any better than that.

i'm the one who said an addict needs heroin like a christian needs god. so me comparing comsumerism with religion, is just another little thing i see. you can't see it because you're caught up with it. the same as someone can't see their a mere consumer. to a certain extent i'm a consumer, but not to the extent that i'm a mere puppet for companies. christians are god's puppets, you do what you're told. it's like having some sort of parent to keep you inline.

A life i wanted to give up,a life i was sick of,He reached in and ripped the guts out of me put me back together all better in a blink of an eye,and said now what are you going to do for me.
Funny how He only accepts and makes Himself real to people willing to do that or when their heart is in the right place for Him.Until then people will run around all over the place trying to get proof or try and disprove He does`nt exist.

well like i said i didn't always think this way. there was plenty of time for him to 'come in to my life'. he never did. my life is fine without any god or any religion, i wouldn't want it any other way.

Round in circles we go

that wasn't my point. my point was, don't judge people on what they said over a year or more ago.

Just a side question do you believe you are winning points?

I knew exactly why you asked the question as to try and prove i`m committing a sin.Impressions of peoples characters or beliefs are in everyone,which is why i asked is it still your goal to prove God doesn`t exist any way possible.

some people say you can neither prove nor disprove god. however, saint4god has said on many occasions there is 'personal proof'. so i'm here finding personal proof that god doesn't exist,

Saint4God is 100% correct with that statement.but because He told you that your here getting personal proof God does`nt exist???

although i shouldn't really need anymore, my thoughts on this subject are obviously clear.

And what was it i told you when you stated what your goal in life was?you were already convinced He did`nt then, so you were never going to get your personal proof,dude just trying to save you and everyone else that are going to repeat the same things to you the effort of typing so much.When your heart is right for God you`ll get your proof end of story.

If you ever find shauny you want to chat seriously about finding God and getting your personal proof because you feel your heart is more open to Him,i sincerely hope you could see myself as a friend who would help you anyway i could.

That said i really dont want to go around in circles with who said what even when words are on this very page with you or anyone else its nothing more than a waste of time and space.Nothing i`m going to say to you or have said will help you it seems anyway,maybe one day it won`t be like this? who knows.

Just a side question do you believe you are winning points?

winning points? no.

Saint4God is 100% correct with that statement.but because He told you that your here getting personal proof God does`nt exist???

no. i didn't say that. why do always 'assume' everything or have to ask such dimwitted questions.

If you ever find shauny you want to chat seriously about finding God and getting your personal proof because you feel your heart is more open to Him,i sincerely hope you could see myself as a friend who would help you anyway i could.

are you being this way on purpose. can you not read? ''my life is fine without god''. sorry for being so forward there with the personal attack but you'd have to be ignoring what I've written to have missed that statement i've made.

Nothing i`m going to say to you or have said will help you it seems anyway,maybe one day it won`t be like this? who knows.

ohright so it's me who is wrong? yeah i have to open my heart to god. and only then can i be able to have a 'serious' chat with you.

how ignorant and washed up in your own beliefs do you have to be to keep saying that drival!! gps i'm not a christian, stop trying to make me in to one.

ADMIN EDIT: Removed childish name calling...
Admin suggestion: Everybody stay POLITE or the thread will be closed.

[edit on 28-4-2006 by shaunybaby]


[edit on 4-29-2006 by Springer]

Originally posted by LadyPropag8r
Jesus overthrew the moneychangers...Jesus DID feel anger ...God said Be ye angry and sin not...Anger is not a sin. The mere understanding of this scripture is, that by SELLING in the temple was a statement that God could be bought out...HE cannot be bought or sold. Jesus KNEW this truth would be rejected..HE didn't act out of context...HE was in His devine rightful authority.

It's been quite some time since I used this:

You have voted LadyPropag8r for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

You had put it both simply and accurately. I've learned something today. Looking forward to hearing more from you as I still have much to learn.

Other saints, gps777, JungleJake, and crew, same goes for y'all, I just tend to take you for granted these days. Still love ya's though. Non-believers, love ya's too. Glad to be accepted as a part of the ATS family.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
This sort of forcefullness to place Christianity in the minds of such young children is wrong. Children are like sponges, they absorb everything around them, words, pictures, and religion. If we're told one thing, we believe it.

Apparently not Shauny. Oh, same goes for me. As a kid I went to church, but rejected it all anyway.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
Children very rarely question their existence, and why would they need to when they have the bible, prayer, and teachers (people in some sort of authority to children) are telling them 'God made you, the earth and so on'.

Where in the Bible, prayer, etc. are people not to question our existance? On the contrary, ask God "Did you make me?" "What is my purpose?" "What am I supposed to do?" Life is a lot better when you have these answers coming.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
This is what my fight is against. Not religion on it's own. I have no fear or worry about a person being religious if it's his own free will.

Oh good! We're on the same side on this one.

What I have a problem with are the people who are today religious, ONLY because they were brought up with it. Sure there are many who don't grow up to carry on their religious past, like me, but there are many who after learning all of that when they were children, cannot break out of that mindset. It's simply wrong.

I agree they need to ask important questions and get those answers.

Christianity has been de-religionised. The fact that easter and christmas are no longer celebrations of the birth, death, and rise of Christ, they are mere commercial ways for corporations to bleed consumers dry.

I'm on your side here too.

I don't believe Jesus died for my sins, but I still celebrate his birth by having a turkey on christmas day. I also don't believe he died and rose again, yet I still have my easter egg around easter. The two most important holidays in the Christian calendar, and they have almost nothing to do with Christianity anymore. And schools, with this forcefullness of Christianity on young impressionable minds is outright wrong. This is what I mean by 'de-religionised'.

I too am fighting easter eggs and trees in public schools during these times. The only difference between you and I then is that I believe he was born, died and rose again. I'm starting to think we're not as different as we thought.

And to answer your question saintforgod, this is why I am not a Christian. And the way that I see Christianity has effected the way I see all organized religion. I am a member of the human race, I live life, I love life, and no God, group, cult, or consumer trend will sink their teeth in to me. I'm a free-thinker, I grew up...maybe it's time the rest of the world followed.

Thank you for sharing your life account. I know it can be tough to do that around here because of the vulnerability to all kinds of criticisms, judgements and simplications of our experiences. I hope I've done none of these things, as I tend not to share in great deal my history because of these things. I'd like to add though, knowing there's a God does not make anyone less of a "free-thinker" as there are many many questions we'll not be given the answer to here. I would be wary of believers who think they have all the answers...rather I'm a believer who has one answer and it is the one thing that I know.

Originally posted by saint4God
Apparently not Shauny. Oh, same goes for me. As a kid I went to church, but rejected it all anyway.

That wasn't my point. It was more the fact that teachers are in authority from a child's view. Almost like a policeman. When you're young you do look to adults for guidence, and you learn most from what you see. For example the reason why children lie...is because adults lie. Young children learn to lie, for example ''did you draw on the wall''... the child not being great at lying, laughs and says ''no''.

The idea wasn't that children believe everything they're told. It's that people in authority to children should be careful what they teach as children will absorb most of it. And no this isn't going to be universal for every single child, but the vast majority of young children if you tell them something...they are likely to believe it.

I'd like to add though, knowing there's a God does not make anyone less of a "free-thinker" as there are many many questions we'll not be given the answer to here. I would be wary of believers who think they have all the answers...rather I'm a believer who has one answer and it is the one thing that I know.

So a person who picks up a bible and believes is the inspired word of God, and the whole thing is a literal account of our history, is supposed to be a 'free-thinker'. A person who does that, is very much so not a free thinker, In the same respect as if you picked up a copy of the Da Vinci Code and believed it word for word 100% truth.

Originally posted by shaunybaby

So a person who picks up a bible and believes is the inspired word of God, and the whole thing is a literal account of our history, is supposed to be a 'free-thinker'. A person who does that, is very much so not a free thinker, In the same respect as if you picked up a copy of the Da Vinci Code and believed it word for word 100% truth.

Personally there are many parts of the Bible i dont understand,no different to say quotes you`ve quoted where you dont and people have shown you otherwise, i know the answers are either there or i have`nt found it yet the problem is`nt the book its me.The parts i do understand is much more than enough to apply to my life and challenge me to go deeper,luckily there are those better studied who help those less.Though the focus is on Christ and people in high positions can and do get it wrong and make a world of hurt and distrust the higher or deeper they are because they are relied upon.

I dont believe that any harm is done to children who recite the Lords Prayer actually i think it positive as it puts in the mind of children that even their teachers have something to look up to and are accountable to, rather than being a law unto themselves.

I agree with you wholly however and question authorities that have the power to enforce anything.Which i learned very young and still do today.I have strongly questioned Pastors and left Church's where i believe they were`nt teaching Gods word and interpret to suit themselves thats a judgment call i made,though meek type or simple people who dont need to question are probably still there today will still have God in there hearts that i have no doubt and unharmed and unaffected,others can be harmed if they follow a persons interpretation blindly without questioning it and compareing it to the Word,which is not simple.

If Dan Browns book is 99.9% bogus look for the 0.01% truth or find whats positive you can use.The Bible however is much more than knowledge and history,the difference is the parts i dont understand i dont consider bogus.

believers in God are refereed as sheep and Christ the Good Shepperd,and if one can recognize His word as exactly that,that to is free thought also,its recognizing that which is worthy of authority and respect.

[edit on 29-4-2006 by gps777]

Originally posted by gps777
I dont believe that any harm is done to children who recite the Lords Prayer actually i think it positive as it puts in the mind of children that even their teachers have something to look up to and are accountable to, rather than being a law unto themselves.

there is harm... especially when you're nothing 'christian'. there were people of other religions at my school, there were also people who weren't neccesarily christian... i.e me. you don't see any harm in it because it's what you believe.

maybe i should get you to recite some quotes, speeches, pro-evolution, or perhaps anti-god stuff daily. then maybe all school children should be made to say that too. it's not the problem that we said prayers, it was that we were practising one ideology, and to no one's surprise...it's christianity.

If Dan Browns book is 99.9% bogus look for the 0.01% truth or find whats positive you can use.

well i don't see dan brown's book as a mere 100% false account of what happened. i like to think that maybe somehow it's right, sure would be a twist on the biblical account. i was just making the point that you should read something and just believe it 100%... it's just 'stupid'. and there are people who have done that with dan brown's da vinci code.

i very much doubt dan brown wrote the book for his own piece of mind. afterall there were a few books prior to his that said pretty much the same thing. what dan brown's book did was make the concept popular again. popular with a generation with no religion. almost created some cult following, as there are people who visit places in the book, try and retrace steps. and because dan brown has described a window in a building, people see it, and think 'yep all true, he even got the description of the window correct'. these people are latching on to the da vinci code like christians latch on to the bible.

The Bible however is much more than knowledge and history,the difference is the parts i dont understand i dont consider bogus.

it's barely knowledge, and it's barely history. sure some accounts may be on point. but to think there was some 40 day world flood, noah built a boat, carried two of ever animal...i do not see that as a literal account of our planet's history. and the same goes for many other stories too.

believers in God are refereed as sheep and Christ the Good Shepperd,and if one can recognize His word as exactly that,that to is free thought also,its recognizing that which is worthy of authority and respect.

at the end of the day it's still blind faith, following without actually 'knowing', as you said yourself there's some of the bible you don't understand. you're following something that you don't fully understand... wierd.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
there is harm... especially when you're nothing 'christian'. there were people of other religions at my school, there were also people who weren't neccesarily christiannecessarily... i.e me. you don't see any harm in it because it's what you believe.

Can you explain what harm it did you to say those words?,you said you remembered most of them here it is in full.

www.robinsweb.com...

If there were other cultures in the school and if it were a problem to the parents would`nt they be the ones to be concerned?or even find different schools for them?or if other arrangements could be made for those?.

maybe i should get you to recite some quotes, speeches, pro-evolution, or perhaps anti-god stuff daily. then maybe all school children should be made to say that too. it's not the problem that we said prayers, it was that we were practising one ideology, and to no one's surprise...it's christianity.

It was`nt me who made you say them,why try the reverse Psychology statement on me and imply i made you?

I believe what i said to you it caused no harm and if anything it was positive for the reasons i stated what more can i say?

What about the majority of parents back then that thought it a good practice do ones parents supersede the rest,did your parents tell them that they dont want you to have to say it or be involved when they do say the prayer,if not would`nt you think you should be annoyed at your parents instead of me because you did.Not that i`m suggesting you should be annoyed at them because they might have seen it as a good practice as well?

at the end of the day it's still blind faith, following without actually 'knowing',
as you said yourself there's some of the bible you don't understand. you're following something that you don't fully understand... wierd.

No now your trying to twist what i said,i`ll say it this way as well it was out of blind faith that i gave my life then i knew God was real so the parts i dont understand does not alter my faith in knowing that God exists, i do however understand Christs words and try and live by them and grow into them though at times i need reminders of them.

If thats what you consider weird its because you dont understand not because your opinion is correct.

[edit on 30-4-2006 by gps777]