The Anti-Christian conspiracy

Originally posted by gps777
Can you explain what harm it did you to say those words?,you said you remembered most of them here it is in full.

there's no harm...it didn't kill me. but to 'force' us to say them. we weren't allowed to stand there quietly, the same as we 'had' to sing the hyms.

If there were other cultures in the school if it were a problem to the parents would`nt they be the ones to be concerned?or even different schools for them?if other arrangement could`nt be made.

ah yes, so we can no longer be a society together. if you're not christian you can go elsewhere...is that correct?

It was`nt me who made you say them,why try the reverse Psychology statement on me and imply i made you?

because you said what harm is there in saying the lord's prayer. then obviously you wouldn't mind saying something that goes against your beliefs everyday? maybe you should be made to pray to satan on a daily basis... that was the hypothetical turn around i did for you, as you said me saying the lord's prayer should not be harmful. so i used your method of thinking and put a twist on it...then surely you would have no problem praying to satan... not that i prayer to satan, but that's pretty much the opposite of what you're doing at the moment.

What about the majority of parents back then that thought it a good practice do ones parents supersede the rest,did your parents tell them that they dont want you to have to say it or be involved when they do,if not would`nt you think you should be annoyed at your parents instead of me because you did.Not that i`m suggesting you should be annoyed at them because they might have seen it as a good practice as well?

i'm not even sure my parent knew. yeah parent, not parents. and no i'm not annoyed at you, don't flatter yourself. the only thing you said that got on my nerves was that the lord's prayer is not harmful, and merely i responded that you would therefore not worry about praying to satan on a daily basis...

Originally posted by shaunybaby
there's no harm...it didn't kill me. but to 'force' us to say them. we weren't allowed to stand there quietly, the same as we 'had' to sing the hyms.

At last thank you shauny,so its just the thought of the forced group think thing that irks you,but did`nt harm you in the slightest.Whats that saying "no harm no foul"I`ve seen harm though like many of us.Why complain about something thats harmless?

ah yes, so we can no longer be a society together. if you're not christian you can go elsewhere...is that correct?

No i wasn`t thinking that way at all,i find it strange that in your school there wasn`t provisions made for other peoples beliefs.But if there wasn`t i do believe the parents would either do something about it at the school or find a school which agrees with their beliefs.

because you said what harm is there in saying the lord's prayer. then obviously you wouldn't mind saying something that goes against your beliefs everyday?

What? come on shauny we were doing better than this.We have agreed there was no harm,now your stretching it into me having to recite something i dont believe everyday of my life?

If you want to post something here for me to make a judgment call on whether i would be harmed if forced to recite something as a child,post it and i`ll give it my best assessment on whether or not i think i would be harmed by those words.

maybe you should be made to pray to satan on a daily basis...

You can do better than slump to this cant you? Satan represents evil are you seriously suggesting school children pray to Satan to make some type of point?

I thought we were getting somewhere.

Your whole grievance as far as i can see and read between you and i is that as a 5-12 year old boy you were made to recite admitted harmless words and by 8 years of age you grew up and out of it and suggested that its time for me to do the same,and your not happy because i wont stop being a Christian and do what you want or believe.

i'm not even sure my parent knew.yeah parent, not parents.

Oh sorry to hear that shauny,i sincerely mean that,and hope by saying that doesn`t offend you any further.For both the first part and the second.

and no i'm not annoyed at you

Good. something positive to hear

don't flatter yourself.

We`re going backwards again

the only thing you said that got on my nerves was that the lord's prayer is not harmful

Ok did`nt mean to get on your nerves,but we are in agreement that saying the Lords prayer isn`t`harmful to anyone especially children,though i hear you and believe that it offends you for reasons now because you dont think God exists.

though if you took the offending word for you "God" out of it can you agree that those words are fantastically beautiful and true to live by?if yes........what is really the problem shauny

I`d like to take the opportunity to apologies to you shauny for anything harsh or insulting that i have done that may have/has caused more harm.The outburst months ago was of 2 parts i was angry with you for the first part,but not as much as may of appeared,the second part was because i know one day you`ll have to stand in front of Him you say doesn`t exist and i was worried that speaking as much as you have done with believers was counting against you.Not saying you have to believe this i`m saying i believe/ed it.

If you can see any change in me i hope you see what Christ can do in ones life and its positive its not negative and not something worthy of attack its belief its praise its prayer to and in God,not to forget friends and other Christians that have helped me, love you too saint4God.

Not saying that i`m not going to get annoyed at ya sometimes though


[edit on 30-4-2006 by gps777]

Originally posted by gps777
At last thank you shauny,so its just the thought of the forced group think thing that irks you,but did`nt harm you in the slightest.Whats that saying "no harm no foul"I`ve seen harm though like many of us.Why complain about something thats harmless?

because i'd feel the same if i were forced to follow muslim beliefs, or hindu beliefs. it's not about it being 'harmful' it didn't 'kill' me, but psychologicaly the affects can still be seen. hence, my anger towards christianity is fueled from my childhood and the fact that it was forced on me, is still being forced on to people and so on.

so why do christians complain about movies that show their beliefs in a certain light? surely the passion of christ didn't 'harm' any christian physically, as in jump out the screen and beat them up...the movie was 'harmless' in the same sense that the lord's prayer is harmless, yet christians still complained about the passion of christ.

No i wasn`t thinking that way at all,i find it strange that in your school there wasn`t provisions made for other peoples beliefs.But if there wasn`t i do believe the parents would either do something about it at the school or find a school which agrees with their beliefs.

like i said before, why should it be up to everyone else to move schools? why should christianity be the only religion there. it's pure ignorance. if no other religions are practiced there, then nor should christianity.

What? come on shauny we were doing better than this.We have agreed there was no harm,now your stretching it into me having to recite something i dont believe everyday of my life?

well why should it be ok for me to have to recite something i don't believe in everyday, and for you to say that's ok. yet, when the shoe's on the other foot you wouldn't do it... hmmmm. hypocrit?

You can do better than slump to this cant you? Satan represents evil are you seriously suggesting school children pray to Satan to make some type of point?

no, but it'd just be the oposite of what you believe. and when did i state that children 'should' recite that. it was a hypothetical.

Your whole grievance as far as i can see and read between you and i is that as a 5-12 year old boy you were made to recite admitted harmless words and by 8 years of age you grew up and out of it and suggested that its time for me to do the same,and your not happy because i wont stop being a Christian and do what you want or believe.

what's this about being 8 and growing out of it... 5-12 because that's the time when i didn't have a choice in the matter. after that i did. i'm not happy because you're still trying to make me a christian. the same as my first couple schools did. the same as those JW's did the other week when they came to my house. i mean why can't i 'just be'? why have i got to be made to say prayers, sing hyms, listen to people at my door talk to me about jesus and so on. sure i could throw a fit and tell them 'no', or slam the door in the JW's faces...

the reason why religion is forced in this mannor is because ideologies always have to be. it's the same reason why ID is trying to be forced in to American schools. christians just always have to have their own way, and if they don't they complain and complain about people being anti-christian just because we won't teach ID in school. well what's sunday school for and church!?

i mean, we don't learn about how muslim's percieve creation, or how hindus. we may a little in RE (religious education) but that's only there to teach us about the acceptance of all religions. why therefore should 'one' religion, i.e christianity, be allowed to have their ideologies in the classroom?

anyone would think they want to take over the world...

[edit on 30-4-2006 by shaunybaby]

Hey there shauny

Originally posted by shaunybaby
'harmful' it didn't 'kill' me, but psychologically the affects can still be seen. hence, my anger towards christianity is fueled from my childhood and the fact that it was forced on me, is still being forced on to people and so on.

I dont see it sorry,i dont believe that reciting the Lords prayer as a child is the root of your grievance.I`m trying however to understand.

so why do christians complain about movies that show their beliefs in a certain light? surely the passion of christ didn't 'harm' any christian physically

I will take your word that some people have complained about the movie,i bought the DVD over a year ago and cant bring myself to watch it,having heard that it was gory etc,i was flicking the channels about a month or so a go and i saw a gory movie i then realized the person was Christ being flogged it was the movie Passion....and i changed channel.Christ suffered badly not just that unjustly,i dont think it necessary to depict Him suffering in such a graphic way even if it was exactly like that,there are other ways of allowing the viewer to understand.Is about as much as i can comment.

But remember what we are discussing here please and as hard as it is keep it in context.

like i said before, why should it be up to everyone else to move schools? why should christianity be the only religion there. it's pure ignorance. if no other religions are practiced there, then nor should christianity.

I`m not sure if your hearing me,i can agree with the most part,though we are talking about children reciting something harmless.

well why should it be ok for me to have to recite something i don't believe in everyday, and for you to say that's ok. yet, when the shoe's on the other foot you wouldn't do it... hmmmm. hypocrit?

Call me or think what you like,i didn`t do it to you and i dont believe it harmed you even psychologically,no more so than a child thinking santa wont bring them presents if their naughty at best.

no, but it'd just be the oposite of what you believe. and when did i state that children 'should' recite that. it was a hypothetical.

hypothetical is ok to use in circumstances,but lets not have to get rediculous.

what's this about being 8 and growing out of it...

originally posted by shauny
i've read those same fables, except i don't believe in kiddy stories, i grew out of that when i was about 8. maybe it's time you did too.

I mentioned this 1 page back which made you very upset,i was hoping you would check for yourself what you have recently said,can you see how insulting and stuck up yourself this makes you sound.That at 8 you had better sense than all of us let alone now?you have forced me to bring this up.But you dont like force either what does that say to you?

5-12 because that's the time when i didn't have a choice in the matter.

Have you any idea how many people who have said those words on a regular basis and not realize the gravity and power of them.Thats a shame if one doesn`t,but we are talking about your childhood not adulthood here.

after that i did. i'm not happy because you're still trying to make me a Christian.

I cant change that,nor do i want to stop being a Christian ever.

This is what i believe Shaun about you,hope you dont get upset,i believe you want God so much and your annoyed and angry for many personal reasons some your own some that was out of your control and blame Him for them as an out let,added by the fact that you strongly believe things in the Bible do not measure up to Him,that you want to believe but those things stop you.Let me tell you friend those things have answers,answers you may only receive when you are face to face with Him,i`m living proof that you dont need all the answers to know God exists and be called His own,maybe this is the reason i or other Christians cant explain everything,I know this is the reason i dont study the Bible searching for things to debunk or what not,Though i dont want to speak for other Christians because some have shown me where i did`nt understand something in the Bible its better to know than not but not entirely necessary.You dont have to trust me though i understand that,just saying by putting faith in God and having Christ as Lord is what its about.

the same as those JW's did the other week when they came to my house. i mean why can't i 'just be'?

hope you see the humor,years and years ago a nice JW couple came to my door i invited them in,he started telling me his beliefs and showing me in his Bible why he has those beliefs,i corrected him and got out my bible and allowed them to hear otherwise this went on for about an hour,in the end he said to me "no"what your talking about is only for the Saints we JW`s are`nt Saints,not realizing this is what i was,i said no thats supposed to be for everyone and Christ is our Lord and the only Way to Jehovah,they were very puzzled they got up i saw them to the door,he said do you want me to come back?i said yes sure! if you want to learn (doesn`t that make me sound up myself)anyway he never came back,i think they have my house marked or something because they wont come here.I have thought about going knocking on doors to find JW`s because they seem to avoid me now(joking)but it does feel strange they dont come here.

So just a suggestion, if you become Christian they will leave you alone too?

anyone would think they want to take over the world...

one day after His second coming the world will be made new,but we only want to share the Gospel and let others decide,thats how i feel anyway concerning those things.Gods will be done on earth as it is in Heaven,is ones focus and has nothing to do with ruling the earth.Look at Christ what/how did he rule

[edit on 30-4-2006 by gps777]

Originally posted by gps777
I dont see it sorry,i dont believe that reciting the Lords prayer as a child is the root of your grievance.I`m trying however to understand.

it's not. it's the forcing it upon children part.

I will take your word that some people have complained about the movie,i bought the DVD over a year ago and cant bring myself to watch it,having heard that it was gory etc,i was flicking the channels about a month or so a go and i saw a gory movie i then realized the person was Christ being flogged it was the movie Passion....and i changed channel.Christ suffered badly not just that unjustly,i dont think it necessary to depict Him suffering in such a graphic way even if it was exactly like that,there are other ways of allowing the viewer to understand.Is about as much as i can comment.

exactly your personal view of the movie is that it shows christ's death in a bad light. however, saying that, the movie is harmless. sure it's gore-filled, but that's what his death was probably like.

so to question why i find something that you think is 'harmless' like the lord's prayer, is pure hypocritical if you're going to complain about things that i think are harmless, such as the passion of christ.

I`m not sure if your hearing me,i can agree with the most part,though we are talking about children reciting something harmless.

so it doesn't matter to you if atheists, muslims, hindus and so on recite the lord's prayer, as it's 'harmless'. tell me, were you 'forced' to read other religions prayers at any point in your christian life, daily?

Call me or think what you like,i didn`t do it to you and i dont believe it harmed you even psychologically,no more so than a child thinking santa wont bring them presents if their naughty at best.

what you've done in the last few posts by saying the lord's prayer is harmless, is to actually make that prayer meaningless if you say it.

you're a hypocrit because you say that i should have to say prayers to your god and live with it, as to you it's harmless. then when i made a hypothetical situation of you doing something similar, you said 'no'. even though it was satan, to me, praying to satan would be harmless as i don't believe in him. but saying the lord's prayer was not about believing in god, it was about being forced to do it...which you seem happy to do to children. however, like i said with the satan prayers, you wouldn't do those...even though i see those as harmless. do you catch my drift? you wouldn't like being forced to pray to satan... so why should i be forced to pray to your god?

originally posted by shauny
i've read those same fables, except i don't believe in kiddy stories, i grew out of that when i was about 8. maybe it's time you did too.

yeah about the bible stories, but at that time we were still being made to say the prayers and sing the hyms.

I mentioned this 1 page back which made you very upset,i was hoping you would check for yourself what you have recently said,can you see how insulting and stuck up yourself this makes you sound.That at 8 you had better sense than all of us let alone now?you have forced me to bring this up.But you dont like force either what does that say to you?

well obviously i did.

to take the biblical accounts of our history as 'fact', and you take those on faith, it's not sense, or even remotely logical.

it strikes me as quite a coincidence that most religions were created in a time where people were dumber, with such a minimal amount of people who could read and write, also in a time where technology is not what it is today. religions were created so people had a purpose, without religion it almost seems worthless, as you're born...and you die. religion made it so you live forever...i mean who wouldn't want that? well me for one.

Have you any idea how many people who have said those words on a regular basis and not realize the gravity and power of them.Thats a shame if one doesn`t,but we are talking about your childhood not adulthood here.

so at first you say it's 'harmless', now it's all powerfull?

This is what i believe Shaun about you,hope you dont get upset,i believe you want God so much and your annoyed and angry for many personal reasons some your own some that was out of your control and blame Him for them as an out let,added by the fact that you strongly believe things in the Bible do not measure up to Him,that you want to believe but those things stop you.

*sarcasm warning* - yeah i really want god - *end sarcasm*

i've already stated i don't need god in my life. stop trying to make me a christian!! my god how many times have i got to say those lines?

the bible doesn't measure up as a story book for a 5 year old, let alone a literal history of the human race, creation of earth and the universe.

Let me tell you friend those things have answers,answers you may only receive when you are face to face with Him,

errr what. you can't lay eyes upon god...you die otherwise. better go check your bible. or maybe you can these days, if you're wearing really dark sunglasses perhaps?

hope you see the humor,years and years ago a nice JW couple came to my door i invited them in,he started telling me his beliefs and showing me in his Bible why he has those beliefs,i corrected him and got out my bible and allowed them to hear otherwise this went on for about an hour,in the end he said to me "no"what your talking about is only for the Saints we JW`s are`nt Saints,not realizing this is what i was,i said no thats supposed to be for everyone and Christ is our Lord and the only Way to Jehovah,they were very puzzled they got up i saw them to the door,he said do you want me to come back?i said yes sure! if you want to learn (doesn`t that make me sound up myself)anyway he never came back,i think they have my house marked or something because they wont come here.I have thought about going knocking on doors to find JW`s because they seem to avoid me now(joking)but it does feel strange they dont come here.

so even you can't resist to try and turn a JW... they come there to convert you, and all you do is try and do the same to them and show them that your way is better.

So just a suggestion, if you become Christian they will leave you alone too?

no but if you become a JW...they probably will. but then if i knock on your door, you're likely to try and convert me to your beliefs.

[edit on 1-5-2006 by shaunybaby]

Originally posted by undo
saint4God,

that's such an incredible set of verses. essentially what he's saying is: this isn't about us, it's about Him.

FINALLY! I am amazed, that is one thing that i have been trying to say.. It isn't all about us. With all that has been written or said, It is all about Him. We need to respect and worship, mostly to just simply respect Him and the lives that He created.

Originally posted by shaunybaby

Originally posted by sisterwendy
judge not lest you be judge.

if that's the case then Jesus sinned, hence he would not be perfect.

he judged the money lenders in the temple, and after judging them and coming to the conclusion that they were doing wrong, he turned over their tables and went mental. i would say that is passing judgement on the money lenders in the temples. Jesus sinned...

i'm sure however, as always there will be some loop hole christians will use to get out of this inconsistancy.

Jesus wasn't perfect, He was a man. He was tempeted, Like man, He even cried out to his God, our God. And as far as the money issue---Jesus, went mental because they were using the temple to trade and other things, right there on the temple grounds, which were meant only for worship not for trade or a way to make money.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
Had some JWs come to my door todsay to do their little recruiting rounds.

'Hi, do you believe in the Good Book called the Bible'... 'ummm no not really'. 'Would you be interested in finding out more about the bible and our good lord in heaven'... 'ummmmm no not really'.

I mean do these people really turn anyone around. Does someone answer there door and go 'actually I was thinking about it, but now you've come round, I really want to read the bible and be JW too'.

There's a church in my village, but I wasn't aware we had JWs. Maybe they're from another town or village and they're recruiting outside the parish.

I'm not one to tell em to ****off and I also found it very hard not to laugh, sometimes covering it up as much as I could with a smile.

I would not want to believe in the bible and be at all associated with those sort of people. Sure, maybe they think what they are doing is good.

Finally asking 'If we left these leaflets here, would you read them'... 'ummm yeah cheers, I could do with a laugh'.

Ever notice how they always come in twos? That's known as the Noah's Ark effect.

There are a lot of churches that besides the JW that recruit members. And some of the information they leave is very helpful. I was raised JW, and I still get their little books, watch tower and awake. And like with many ohter churches, they have been mocked. They have misteahings as well as truth in what they preah.

sun matrix explains this whole thing perfectly in this thread www.abovetopsecret.com...

this is why we are in this thread. this is truth.

Satan chose the mark of the sun because he knew God's plan. He knew God was going to send his own Son to pay the price for the sins of men.

Therefore Satan became the sun (Baal), as the deceiver to keep men from seeing Gods Son. Satan has blinded the world to the story of the sun. It's everywhere, all over the world in different forms. An example would be false god Zeus having a human son, Hercules. Son of god, just a different form of the lie that blinds the world. Nimrod is Zeus, by the way.

In Babylon, Nimrod was killed by Shem because he killed his father and slept with his mother, Semiramis. Semiramis then created the false religion that blinds the world. Semiramis claimed that Nimrod became Baal, the sun, when he was killed. She further claimed that she became pregnant from the sun and was having a virgin birth of her son Tammuz. Tammuz was Nimrod rising from the dead. So you get the sun god, the virgin birth and the resurrection. The lie that blinds the world is born.

The truth is, Jesus the Christ, the prophesied Messiah rose from the dead after paying the price for the sins of men. Those that seek this truth will find the truth. That is a guarantee from God. Those that believe that the Messiah died for their sins will be saved. Obedience to Gods word is the proof that you have faith in the Messiah.

Or, you can choose the mark of the sun.

posted on 14-5-2006 at 05:38 PM Post Number: 2182182 (post id: 2207218) - printer friendly

A few more Matrix tidbits.

When Tammuz was 40 years old, he was killed by a wild boar while hunting. Nimrod, Tammuz and Semiramis were real people by the way. Osiris, Horus and Isis are the Egyptian version of the same story.

After Tammuz was killed his death was morned for 40 days prior to the spring festival. This 40 days of mourning is where Lent comes from. The fact that Tammuz was killed by a wild boar, is why it is tradition to eat a ham on Easter. A little revenge you see.

It is claimed that an evergreen tree sprung up overnight from blood on the ground from Tammuz. This evergreen tree is where the Christmas tree comes from. It is in Jeremiah 10 of the Bible. That is why on Dec 25th, the birthday of the "sun god" the Christmas tree is present. It is a symbol of resurrection. In Egypt, the Palm tree is used. Masons also use this evergreen tree in their ceremonies.

Don't let the lies of the deceiver keep you from seeing the truth of God's Son, the Messiah. Seek Him and you will find him. Seek the truth

Okay, since nobody wants to seriously discuss Satanism, let us go for a little more mild of a flavor. Consider the following products:



Comes in a mug, bumper-sticker, mug, t-shirt, etc.









logo.cafepress.com..." target='_blank' class='tabOff'/>

Of course all available in a wide array of products, and no I'm not going to share the name of the store. Still no groups propagating against Christianity eh? (By the way, ALL of these images were assembled and produced by one group)

[edit on 23-5-2006 by saint4God]

I think Christianity and all one God religeons that cause the world so much misery and harm should be destroyed.

Do you know how many Christians have told me I will burn for my sins and burn for not being Christian. After that is said and done they then have the balls to say we don't care what others do yet get offended by the idea of same sex marraige and pro choice.

Is there a conspiracy to destroy religeon? No people are just waking up to the fact it's all bull# and the sooner the better. In my opinion

People better start realizing the fact that no god will save them and that humanity has to face it's challenges by themselves. No god is in anyones corner nor will there ever be religeon hinders humanities progress and unless you can proove otherwise then my opinion will not change.

saint those tshirts are called 'satire', don't take it too seriously.

and a group selling some jokey tshirts about christianity online...wow what a conspiracy. where exactly is the 'conspiracy'? what are they conspiring to do, apart from make a little money from people who like to wear satirical tshirts.

well jesus was convicted of being a false prophet, hence the 'ifraud'...so in some ways that's pretty true. might have been a good souvenir at the crucifixing.

'godbusters'... just a little parody of 'ghostbusters', hence the satiral element there.

so yeah, lighten up. you always seem so easy going, then you bring up this tiny little cafepress online shop that's selling satirical christianity tshirts as your proof there's a conspiracy against christianity.

and no one ever said there were no anti-christian people or societies set up that don't like christianity, the point is, is that there is no action conspiracy to overthrow christianity in any way. the point of these tshirts, other products and societies are to express an opinion... and nothing more.

[edit on 24-5-2006 by shaunybaby]

Originally posted by The_Doctor
I think Christianity and all one God religeons that cause the world so much misery and harm should be destroyed.

I'd like to frame this please and label it Exhibit A. By the way, Christian causes neither harm nor misery. People do.

Originally posted by The_Doctor
Do you know how many Christians have told me I will burn for my sins and burn for not being Christian.

Are they right?

Originally posted by The_Doctor
After that is said and done they then have the balls to say we don't care what others do

Not caring is a big problem, yes. This is proof positive that Christians are sinners as well. It's a good thing people don't worship Christians because they sure are flawed. How about worshipping the One who isn't flawed?

Originally posted by The_Doctor
yet get offended by the idea of same sex marraige and pro choice.

Spin. Another topic for another thread. By the way, I don't get "offended" but yes, if someone asks my assessment of these situations I will give it.

Originally posted by The_Doctor
Is there a conspiracy to destroy religeon? No people are just waking up to the fact it's all bull# and the sooner the better. In my opinion

I've provided two organizations (specifically targeting Christianity, not JUST religion) that say otherwise. Care to address about either one of them?

Originally posted by The_Doctor
People better start realizing the fact that no god will save them and that humanity has to face it's challenges by themselves. No god is in anyones corner nor will there ever be religeon hinders humanities progress and unless you can proove otherwise then my opinion will not change.

I'm grateful that you've tagged the sentence as your opinion. Otherwise, I would be asking for your proof that there is "no god" "in anyones corner". I have proof that says otherwise, but here's the kicker - you wouldn't believe it. You'd have to get your own experience that proves it to you. I can help, but cannot have the experience for you. There's also an assumption here that Christians are irresponsible, relying on God to do everything. This is not the case as proofed by their leader "Christ", their God "God" and the Book that provides additional information about both of them.

[edit on 24-5-2006 by saint4God]

Originally posted by shaunybaby
saint those tshirts are called 'satire', don't take it too seriously.

I see. Anything that's found "anti" is suddenly satire. As Vicki Marsala says, "The truth comes out in jokes" and the truth here is there are so actual anti-Christian sentiment.

Do you find this funny too?

Originally posted by shaunybaby
and a group selling some jokey tshirts about christianity online...wow what a conspiracy. where exactly is the 'conspiracy'? what are they conspiring to do, apart from make a little money from people who like to wear satirical tshirts.

Propagating Anti-Christian sentiments, like this one:

Originally posted by shaunybaby
well jesus was convicted of being a false prophet, hence the 'ifraud'...so in some ways that's pretty true.

Spin.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
might have been a good souvenir at the crucifixing.

RDRR

Originally posted by shaunybaby
'godbusters'... just a little parody of 'ghostbusters', hence the satiral element there.

Who's laughing?

Originally posted by shaunybaby
so yeah, lighten up. you always seem so easy going, then you bring up this tiny little cafepress online shop that's selling satirical christianity tshirts as your proof there's a conspiracy against christianity.

Cafepress would print their naked grandmother if there was money in it. That's not the group who is funding the project. As with all conspiracies, dig deeper. Since when are we taking everything at face-value around here?

Originally posted by shaunybaby
and no one ever said there were no anti-christian people or societies set up that don't like christianity, the point is, is that there is no action conspiracy to overthrow christianity in any way. the point of these tshirts, other products and societies are to express an opinion... and nothing more.

Let's think about this for just a moment. If there are "societies set up that don't like Christianity" are you saying they don't do anything about it?

[edit on 24-5-2006 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God
I see. Anything that's found "anti" is suddenly satire. As Vicki Marsala says, "The truth comes out in jokes" and the truth here is there are so actual anti-Christian sentiment.

Do you find this funny too?

no but making 'light' of a religion, like monty python and the holy grail is not meant to be 'anti-christianity' for example. it's merely satire, and it's saying stop taking yourselves so seriously, have a joke, have a laugh.

i'm not disputing that there are anti-christian statements and people around the world, but i don't believe there's any conspiracy. conspiracies are supposed to be secret, yet you seem to hold the key to the whole thing supposedly.

Propagating Anti-Christian sentiments, like this one:

so people can walk around in tshirts openly in the street that say 'jesus loves you' 'jesus rocks' 'jesus is with you' 'i'm with jesus' and so on, but if it says something that's according to you 'anti-your-religion' you're not allowed to. surely those pro-jesus tshirts are anti-everything-else-apart-from-christianity? screams hypocrit tbh.

Who's laughing?

well i didn't find it funny, and i wouldn't buy the tshirt, mainly because the tshirt sucks. but it's satire nonetheless, just because you don't find something funny, doesn't mean that someone else won't.

Let's think about this for just a moment. If there are "societies set up that don't like Christianity" are you saying they don't do anything about it?

yeah there's societies. but there are societies that hate black people, the KKK, but there's no conspiracy to get rid of millions of black people, let alone a anti-christianity socieity trying to get rid of billions of christians. it's merely groups and societies expressing their opinions. sure you don't agree with their opinion and call them 'anti- so and so' but they don't agree with your opinion...so it's exactly the same.

if you look hard enough i'm sure you can find some satirical tshirts and products and groups that support anti-evolution, anti-atheism and so on. you just seem interested in ignoring that fact to further your own agenda.

for every "pro" group, there is a "con" group, and a whole bunch of people in the middle who just don't care one way or another.

I'm a mountain biker (hobby) and we have mountain biking advocacy groups that I support. There are a whole bunch of groups that are anti-mountain-biking. Most of the world doesn't care one way or another.

Now, religion gets really testy and tricky (like politics and only a few other things). There are people in the world (like the current residents of the White House) who think "you're either with us or against us". They refuse to allow people the right to say "we just don't care so please leave us alone" - they lump the "no opinion, no interest" folks into the "anti" groups.

I have been slandered and maligned by many of the advocates of Christianity on this board because I'm only interested in the history, archeology, sociology, and anthropology of religions. I don't care one way or another about the theology or the spritiuality parts of religion. For that, I have been told that I am "actively anti-Christian" and even (you can look this up for yourself on ATS) that I am a "tool of Satan"! So, there are some folks here who are "anti-Al Davison" ! Is that a conspiracy? Should I start my own thread about it?

Naw, I couldn't care less about what those people think. (I confess to caring that they were rude and should have received a warning, at least. One of them was made a "Mod" here for cracking ice!)

Are the Republicans the anti-Democrat conspiracy? vice-versa?

Anyway, the point is that this thread has gone on forever and it makes for some interesting reads but, nobody has demonstrated anything close to a conspiracy - just groups that don't agree with each other. I happen to like it that way! It's far more interesting. Some of my favorite people on ATS have opposite opinions to mine but I still like them and enjoy reading their posts.

But, for what it's worth, I don't read any posts that consist of more than 50% quotes from the bible. If I want to read the bible, I've got several copies and versions.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
no but making 'light' of a religion, like monty python and the holy grail is not meant to be 'anti-christianity' for example. it's merely satire, and it's saying stop taking yourselves so seriously, have a joke, have a laugh.

I've like a lot of Python, but they're not exempt from crossing the line and they're aware of it too as it was intended.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
i'm not disputing that there are anti-christian statements and people around the world, but i don't believe there's any conspiracy. conspiracies are supposed to be secret, yet you seem to hold the key to the whole thing supposedly.

What you're seeing here is a fruition of a group that did have a plans against Christianity. Here is their image only. You want me to forward their documents? Sorry, they're not going to give them to me. Hence conspiracy. Want me to forward my church's budget & plans? Yes, they will give that to me, and I have already posted it on another thread.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
so people can walk around in tshirts openly in the street that say 'jesus loves you' 'jesus rocks' 'jesus is with you' 'i'm with jesus' and so on, but if it says something that's according to you 'anti-your-religion' you're not allowed to. surely those pro-jesus tshirts are anti-everything-else-apart-from-christianity? screams hypocrit tbh.

If I wear a "Dallas Cowboys" jersey, does that mean I'm Anti-Kansas City Cheifs? C'mon, get real else we're not going to be able to get anywhere.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
well i didn't find it funny, and i wouldn't buy the tshirt, mainly because the tshirt sucks. but it's satire nonetheless, just because you don't find something funny, doesn't mean that someone else won't.

Again, I don't see how the "Islam is the bomb!" shirt is funny to anyone, nor the anti-Christ ones above. Somebody who does think it's funny needs to explain it to me.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
yeah there's societies. but there are societies that hate black people, the KKK, but there's no conspiracy to get rid of millions of black people,

Are you sure about that? Maybe some more research into the KKK would help out a bit. That's naive and borderline offensive to have that kind of denial.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
let alone a anti-christianity socieity trying to get rid of billions of christians.

See your example above & thanks for proving my point.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
it's merely groups and societies expressing their opinions.

Now that IS funny. If you put that on a shirt, I'd buy it.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
sure you don't agree with their opinion and call them 'anti- so and so' but they don't agree with your opinion...so it's exactly the same.

It has nothing to do with MY opinion.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
if you look hard enough i'm sure you can find some satirical tshirts and products and groups that support anti-evolution, anti-atheism and so on. you just seem interested in ignoring that fact to further your own agenda.

What's the title of this thread?

By the way, I do not support anti-atheists t-shirts nor have I seen them. A topic for another thread, one that I already posted on called: Why are people anti-athiest or some such. It was over a year ago. It was a very short thread because many posters including myself said that we were not anti-athiest.

[edit on 24-5-2006 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God
I've like a lot of Python, but they're not exempt from crossing the line and they're aware of it too as it was intended.

so even if it's intended to cross over the line, maybe for the shock value, why is anti-christianity. those tshirts exactly for that purpose... the shock value. just because their opinion is different to yours, doesn't mean they're wrong. you have your opinion of christianity, so why are they not allowed to have theirs.

What you're seeing here is a fruition of a group that did have a plans against Christianity. Here is their image only. You want me to forward their documents? Sorry, they're not going to give them to me. Hence conspiracy. Want me to forward my church's budget & plans? Yes, they will give that to me, and I have already posted it on another thread.

plans against christianity? what was it...to get everyone to wear 'godbuster' tshirts... watch out christianity!

not sure what your church's budget has to do with anything.

If I wear a "Dallas Cowboys" jersey, does that mean I'm Anti-Kansas City Cheifs? C'mon, get real else we're not going to be able to get anywhere.

no, but it means you're 'pro-dallas cowboys'. we don't get anywhere anyways, almost every point you or i have to make has a comeback from the other person and always totally disagrees with what is being said.

Again, I don't see how the "Islam is the bomb!" shirt is funny to anyone, nor the anti-Christ ones above. Somebody who does think it's funny needs to explain it to me.

so just because it's not funny to 'you' it should be banned? just because it's something you don't like it shouldn't be allowed to be liked by anyone else either. wake up to the 21st century, people have different opinions, best you get used to it.

Now that IS funny. If you put that on a shirt, I'd buy it.

again..so other people can't express their opinion on a subject unless it agrees with what you believe? otherwise it's deemed 'anti' or 'wrong' and so on...

By the way, I do not support anti-atheists t-shirts nor have I seen them. A topic for another thread, one that I already posted on called: Why are people anti-athiest or some such. It was over a year ago. It was a very short thread because many posters including myself said that we were not anti-athiest.

you seem to be anti-anyone-who-has-a-different-opinion.

the thought of such a scheme to rid the world of christianity is pathetic on it's own. there's a billion or so people, how many people belong to groups that decide to hate christianity... thousands... i'd very much doubt if it was millions. so you're scare or worried about a few thousand or so people who don't believe the same things as you... get a bit more worried cause there's a lot more people out there who don't believe in what you believe... get used to it. you seem to be hung up on that concept.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
so even if it's intended to cross over the line, maybe for the shock value, why is anti-christianity.

If it is against Christ/Christianity, it is anti-Christ/ian by definition.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
those tshirts exactly for that purpose... the shock value. just because their opinion is different to yours, doesn't mean they're wrong. you have your opinion of christianity, so why are they not allowed to have theirs.

I never said that people (at least in this country) do not have a right to express their opinions, that's not what the topic is about. There's not even a law against conspiracy unless it involves a crime. The topic may be legal, doesn't mean it is right or does not exist.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
plans against christianity? what was it...to get everyone to wear 'godbuster' tshirts... watch out christianity!

Christians are not the ones in danger.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
not sure what your church's budget has to do with anything.

Public vs. private record. In order to have a conspiracy, it is as you say, it must be done in secrecy.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
no, but it means you're 'pro-dallas cowboys'.

EXACTLY! And, that is all it means. If I'm pro-God, that does not make me anti-anything. But, if a person is anti-Christian, guess what.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
we don't get anywhere anyways, almost every point you or i have to make has a comeback from the other person and always totally disagrees with what is being said.

I think we've made some progress else I wouldn't bother...and doubt you would either. Granted we haven't build a rocket to the moon yet, but there's still time.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
so just because it's not funny to 'you' it should be banned?

Nope, nor is it what I'm saying. I said nothing about banning and if we never go there, nothing would be missed by me.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
just because it's something you don't like it shouldn't be allowed to be liked by anyone else either. wake up to the 21st century, people have different opinions, best you get used to it.

C'mon shauny, let's stay on task here.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
again..so other people can't express their opinion on a subject unless it agrees with what you believe? otherwise it's deemed 'anti' or 'wrong' and so on...

It's not that hard. If it is against, then it is anti. If I wear a shirt that says, "Down with pandas!" then I am anti-panda. That does not make me pro-bamboo, pro-chickens or pro-pond water...nor does anti-panda propaganda warrant banning. If I started a group to plan for a way to poach pandas, then I have a "Anti-panda conspiracy" and we could start a thread about it.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
you seem to be anti-anyone-who-has-a-different-opinion.

How so?

Originally posted by shaunybaby
the thought of such a scheme to rid the world of christianity is pathetic on it's own.

I'm showing pieces of the puzzle, not painting a broad picture in one stroke. More to come in the future no doubt. Thanks for your opinion, but am interested in the facts.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
there's a billion or so people, how many people belong to groups that decide to hate christianity... thousands... i'd very much doubt if it was millions.

If it is a conspiracy, then the numbers cannot be counted. At least, not very easily.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
so you're scare or worried

I am? I know that I'm interested in learning more about myself. Additional psycho-analysis is certainly welcomed.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
about a few thousand or so people who don't believe the same things as you... get a bit more worried cause there's a lot more people out there who don't believe in what you believe... get used to it. you seem to be hung up on that concept.

Where did you get the impression that I'm buffered by people who believe the same things I do? It wasn't until very recently that I met anyone who I could say does. Take ATS as one example. Would you say my beliefs are in the majority here?

Duplicate post, somehow double-clickied. This space for rent.

[edit on 24-5-2006 by saint4God]