The Anti-Christian conspiracy

"So let me try too put us back on course so we do not hit the rocks of ignorance."

Hmmm......judge not lest ye be judged.

Back on subject also. Most of the "attacking" of the Christian religion is done from within. The various viewpoints and interpretations are open to all in the good Book. It is when certain Christians attack others for their interpretations no matter what that problems begin. Thus the many different denominations and the splitting of the religion into so many subsets.

Namaste'

Originally posted by Balaams donkey

I believe the Christ is God, the Bible is the Word of God, and if you do not like it, then I ask you why do you care?

I don't care.

We Christians are commanded to keep the Law of the Land, to be kind, not to kill, rape, steal, fornicate, and all other good laws, and you hate us and attack us for this.

Ahh you have a good example there, fornicate. It's great you have your ideals and stick to them. Now while you may not, you have to admit that there is a great many Christians who want to tell other people how to handle their sex lives by pushing laws that tell you how you can act. Up to a few years ago oral sex between married people was outlawed in a few states. Now If I told you you had to have homosexual sex and made it a law.. you have to say you would not be happy with my actions. If fact I'll bet you would be downright angry.

I submit, because there is One God, Jesus Christ, and one source of hate, Satan.

I submit a site of christian love www.godhatesfags.com...

or how about a quote from this christian site. www.godhatessweden.com...

"THANK GOD FOR ALL DEAD SWEDES!!!"

I'm basking in the love. Here is another quote

"Unconfirmed numbers of Swedes are dead as a result of the tsunamis which ravaged Thailand and the other lush resorts of that region, and thousands more are unaccounted for, either still rotting in the tropical conditions or buried, as they deserve, as asses in mass graves (see Jeremiah 22:19). Scarcely a family in Sweden has been untouched by the devastation. Bible preachers say, THANK GOD for it all!"

The topic here as per original post is quite narrow.

Originally posted by jake1997
3.) Doesnt the sheer weight of the trend in this forum show you that there is clearly some larger movement , possibly lead by a conspiracy, ...whos goal is anti-christian?

It should be THAT obvious. How can you miss it?

Please consider speaking to the proposed "conspiracy theory" when responding.

There's quite a bit of effort to either prove or debunk this theory in the first 3 pages of this thread. While alot has been repeated, I've seen nothing in the past half dozen pages furthering the theory that an organized anti-Christian conspiracy exists either in the micro or macro examples of this forum or a "larger movement."

I think the thread poster even went AWOL several pages back saying he had what he needed.

My request is simple then:

Could posters convinced there is an anti-Christian conspiracy post something (theories, evidence, authors and links) that has something to do with advancing this topic please?

And if you don't think there's an anti-Christian conspiracy, I'd say your position has been well covered already.

So we're looking for something new to be said. Any takers?

[edit on 13-4-2005 by RANT]

Originally posted by Cug
I submit a site of christian love www.godhatesfags.com...

or how about a quote from this christian site. www.godhatessweden.com...

"THANK GOD FOR ALL DEAD SWEDES!!!"

I'm basking in the love. Here is another quote

"Unconfirmed numbers of Swedes are dead as a result of the tsunamis which ravaged Thailand and the other lush resorts of that region, and thousands more are unaccounted for, either still rotting in the tropical conditions or buried, as they deserve, as asses in mass graves (see Jeremiah 22:19). Scarcely a family in Sweden has been untouched by the devastation. Bible preachers say, THANK GOD for it all!"

Are these two sites according to scripture? No. Scripture may have been quoted to conform to their agenda, but anyone who reads the Book should know better. So if we have a group who is not following scripture, then they're not Christians. Rather, they're "Christians", that is to say those who like to say they are but do not read nor follow what's written. If I call myself a medical doctor, it doesn't make me one.

[edit on 13-4-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by Cug
I submit a site of christian love www.godhatesfags.com...
or how about a quote from this christian site. www.godhatessweden.com...

"THANK GOD FOR ALL DEAD SWEDES!!!"
I'm basking in the love. Here is another quote

"Unconfirmed numbers of Swedes are dead as a result of the tsunamis which ravaged Thailand and the other lush resorts of that region, and thousands more are unaccounted for, either still rotting in the tropical conditions or buried, as they deserve, as asses in mass graves (see Jeremiah 22:19). Scarcely a family in Sweden has been untouched by the devastation. Bible preachers say, THANK GOD for it all!"

Are these two sites according to scripture? No. Scripture may have been quoted to conform to their agenda, but anyone who reads the Book should know better. So if we have a group who is not following scripture, then they're not Christians. Rather, they're "Christians", that is to say those who like to say they are but do not read nor follow what's written. If I call myself a medical doctor, it doesn't make me one.

Strangely enough, yes, Fred Phelps does believe that he's absolutly Biblical and there are many Christians who agree with some parts of his theology.

I was once, amusingly, the target of some of his ...literature... since he had my address confused with another person's who had spoken out in favor of issues that Phelps felt were undoctrinal. I can say that he finds these things in the Bible and feels absolutly justified.

There are many literalist Christians who feel that other Christians are too "easy" on sinners and too quick to forgive.

I hang out on several fundamentalist boards, and am surprised to find that quite often these attacks on Christians are by other Christians. Usually it's the extreme literalists calling other denominations non-Christian and then yelling that they're attacked and oppressed.

A good example that persecution is NOT going on from outside the community in any significant way is to look at our pool of moderators. We've got it all -- from very strong Christians to strong athiests to strong Pagans. What we don't have are religious "wars" in the group. The reason that we don't is that nobody insists on anyone's following a mandated theology. So we all pretty much respect each other and work together well in spite of our VERY diverse backgrounds (we also go from flaming liberal feminist to staunch conservatist.)

[edit on 13-4-2005 by Byrd]

Originally posted by Byrd
Strangely enough, yes, Fred Phelps does believe that he's absolutly Biblical and there are many Christians who agree with some parts of his theology.

But anyone who reads what Jesus has to say in all four gospels could tell you he says to love God, love your neighbor, and love your enemies. Is there anyone he doesn't want us to love? I can back it up with gobs of scripture but I doubt anyone would wanna hear it. Yes, I believe there's a Hell, but it also says I'm not going to know who's going there (nor anyone else on this earth). Again, gobs of scripture for back-up if you like.

Originally posted by Byrd
There are many literalist Christians who feel that other Christians are too "easy" on sinners and too quick to forgive.

I like to think I'm a literalist, but you're not supposed to go around slapping sinners or else we'd be spending all our time slapping ourselves. Being quick to forgive was all about Jesus' message. Gobs of scripture.

Originally posted by Byrd
I hang out on several fundamentalist boards, and am surprised to find that quite often these attacks on Christians are by other Christians. Usually it's the extreme literalists calling other denominations non-Christian and then yelling that they're attacked and oppressed.

I'm glad you brought this out. I think there are a lot of 'Christians', those who pretend they've read the scripture and understand a lick of it, vs. Christians who actually do. If there's anyone whining about being attacked and oppressed, clearly they've missed what Jesus said about what to expect and the book of James as well.

Originally posted by Byrd
A good example that persecution is NOT going on from outside the community in any significant way is to look at our pool of moderators. We've got it all -- from very strong Christians to strong athiests to strong Pagans. What we don't have are religious "wars" in the group. The reason that we don't is that nobody insists on anyone's following a mandated theology. So we all pretty much respect each other and work together well in spite of our VERY diverse backgrounds (we also go from flaming liberal feminist to staunch conservatist.)

Who's heart has ever been changed by war?


[edit on 13-4-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by Cug
I submit a site of christian love www.godhatesfags.com...

or how about a quote from this christian site. www.godhatessweden.com...

"THANK GOD FOR ALL DEAD SWEDES!!!"

I'm basking in the love. Here is another quote

"Unconfirmed numbers of Swedes are dead as a result of the tsunamis which ravaged Thailand and the other lush resorts of that region, and thousands more are unaccounted for, either still rotting in the tropical conditions or buried, as they deserve, as asses in mass graves (see Jeremiah 22:19). Scarcely a family in Sweden has been untouched by the devastation. Bible preachers say, THANK GOD for it all!"

Are these two sites according to scripture? No. Scripture may have been quoted to conform to their agenda, but anyone who reads the Book should know better. So if we have a group who is not following scripture, then they're not Christians. Rather, they're "Christians", that is to say those who like to say they are but do not read nor follow what's written. If I call myself a medical doctor, it doesn't make me one.

[edit on 13-4-2005 by saint4God]

Here, here to you my friend saint. This is what people who truly seek God's love and want to pass it on rail against thus perhaps promoting the "conspiracy" theory.

I find it very interesting when so called "Christians" say there is a conspiracy against the religion. Most of these "Christians" do not even follow the words of Jesus.

Of what am I speaking? The one's pushing their agenda of "Prayer in School", gov't functions, before ball games, etc. These "Christians" say those who won't allow such are "anti-christian". Hmmm...Perhaps it is the true Christians that are working Jesus's words and not allowing such? Easy to find in Matthew where he speaks on prayer, and even I can interpret his words easily.

So in actuality it is true Christians who are not allowing the hypocrites to not get their way, and thus then are being called "anti". My how they turn things around. I think Jesus states about these pushing such agenda. His words are, "They have their reward."

That is the true anti-christian conspiracy.

I think in a sence it was meant to be , the Bible basically says Christians will be scorn and hunted down and persicuted and killed in the latter days , I never worried though because I know my rewards are not of this earth.

People can say what ever they want to me Im not there maker nor their judge and the end that is the person they will have to answer to .

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by Byrd
Strangely enough, yes, Fred Phelps does believe that he's absolutly Biblical and there are many Christians who agree with some parts of his theology.

But anyone who reads what Jesus has to say in all four gospels could tell you he says to love God, love your neighbor, and love your enemies.

Well, there's at least four towns where Jesus himself condemns everyone in them to the flames of hell because they wouldn't receive his apostles. And there's the fig tree he blasts because it didn't have figs... in the middle of winter, when fig trees NEVER have figs.

He also talks back to his mom.

Originally posted by Byrd
There are many literalist Christians who feel that other Christians are too "easy" on sinners and too quick to forgive.

I like to think I'm a literalist, but you're not supposed to go around slapping sinners or else we'd be spending all our time slapping ourselves. Being quick to forgive was all about Jesus' message. Gobs of scripture.

But -- you'd be surprised how many literalists come up with different interpretations than other literalists (the OSAS is a good example, as is the preterist versus "posty-toasties" (as they are known.)) And I've seen boards where only one choice is offered and opposing views (preterists, say) are preached at and told in no uncertain terms that they are going to hell because their doctrine is false.

The OSAS (once saved always saved) topic is always good for some flameage.

Originally posted by Byrd
I hang out on several fundamentalist boards, and am surprised to find that quite often these attacks on Christians are by other Christians. Usually it's the extreme literalists calling other denominations non-Christian and then yelling that they're attacked and oppressed.

I'm glad you brought this out. I think there are a lot of 'Christians', those who pretend they've read the scripture and understand a lick of it, vs. Christians who actually do. If there's anyone whining about being attacked and oppressed, clearly they've missed what Jesus said about what to expect and the book of James as well.

Their complaints are the same we hear all the time -- that we must be living in the end times and then they cite the Bible verses about love growing cold and the Revelations verses about the mistreatment of the faithful. I think this qualifies as whining.

They also get upset when they march themselves off to other boards, uninvited, to witness. Many of them go to Catholic or Mormon or Jehovahs Witness boards to tell those Christian sects how they are wrong -- and these same missionaries come back with tales of persecution.

They get the same treatment on atheist boards, science boards, skeptics boards, astronomy boards, agnostic boards, scifi boards, soap opera boards, racing car boards, parenting boards, etc, etc.

I have *no* sympathy for them.

I dont believe that the love going cold issue is something I agree with I look at it in the way of fostering peace and mutual benefit in the greater scope of things Byrd you will find alot of the mainstream non demoninational belivers , speak more of peace being an issue than the loss of brotherly love ...way to many things have come accross the table in the last 10 years , you had the trials of the OKC bombing which tested the love a nation can show for a small group of people and the same goes for 9/11 however in that incident it grew to foster worldly love, then you have the tsunamies and a world came to the rescue again.

I dont think love is dwendeling but it has not yet progressed to the next better level which is the moment of sesation where in men decide to not war....we are coming closer in some areas I mean my goodness when is the last time you heard of Israel and Palestine actually making real progress, the pull back has begun and yes there still looms the violence but after a while I believe the change will be accepted and the cross border relations will foster an intolerance to terrorism and hate crimes of a magnitude such as has never been seen before in their history and many countries are right there helping them both along , heck the Vatican was witness to a Pope who held audience with both parties and the Pope spoke of the need of peace and the advancement in building up both goverments to better and become a larger contributor to the world economy and peace.










[edit on 13/4/2005 by drbryankkruta]

Originally posted by Byrd
Well, there's at least four towns where Jesus himself condemns everyone in them to the flames of hell because they wouldn't receive his apostles. And there's the fig tree he blasts because it didn't have figs... in the middle of winter, when fig trees NEVER have figs.

He also talks back to his mom.

Would you be kind enough to reference the verses being discussed here?

Originally posted by Byrd
But -- you'd be surprised how many literalists come up with different interpretations than other literalists (the OSAS is a good example, as is the preterist versus "posty-toasties" (as they are known.)) And I've seen boards where only one choice is offered and opposing views (preterists, say) are preached at and told in no uncertain terms that they are going to hell because their doctrine is false.

The OSAS (once saved always saved) topic is always good for some flameage.

I'd be interested in hearing more. The Bible gives warning about falling away (just before the book of Revelation) but I don't see where it says "once saved always saved". Why would it give a warning about falling away if you cannot fall away? I could be wrong and would welcome any contrary verses. Perhaps a new thread on it? I don't think I have the background to take a solid position on it as of yet.

Originally posted by Byrd
I hang out on several fundamentalist boards, and am surprised to find that quite often these attacks on Christians are by other Christians. Usually it's the extreme literalists calling other denominations non-Christian and then yelling that they're attacked and oppressed.

They also get upset when they march themselves off to other boards, uninvited, to witness. Many of them go to Catholic or Mormon or Jehovahs Witness boards to tell those Christian sects how they are wrong -- and these same missionaries come back with tales of persecution.

They get the same treatment on atheist boards, science boards, skeptics boards, astronomy boards, agnostic boards, scifi boards, soap opera boards, racing car boards, parenting boards, etc, etc.

I have *no* sympathy for them.

I'm not sure what the goal is by doing that. Seems like a counter-productive waste of time to me. Just my opinion. I mean, I'm all for witnessing, but why would you do it just to be an antagonist?

I'm fairly new to this board (as the only one I visit) so your experience is bringing and intriguing perspective. There was one Christian board I was on for 5 minutes. It kicked me because I copy/pasted the ATS link on the post . Apparently no links allowed. Must make research mind-blowingly slow and tedious. *hugs the internet*

[edit on 13-4-2005 by saint4God]

Well, Well,

At least some of the anti-Christian bigotry has gone away. But I hear them gnashing their teeth.

Cug, you seemed to have confused two things together, Christians and a Christian nation. Christians do not make laws in all countries, many laws are against Christians. If a bunch a Christians want to start a country and make laws that they like to live by, it is a free world, and they did. The U.S. is just such a country, so is England, and many others, laws come from a peoples belief system, they have to. If you think human sacrifice is great like the Incas, then you will not make laws against it, but here in the U.S. being a Christian nation we believe it is a bad thing. So we have laws against it. This is normal, the problem is the we have some Atheists running around who love this country and it ethics, and want to make the law of the land based on human secularism, rather than Christianity. What stinks about the whole thing is these human utopianists, will not move to a godless country, they wish to destroy this one. Communist China, Cuba, and other countries are humanist, but they will not move there? They wish to attack my country with their own form of law? Why?

Byrd,

Well, what you have said it true many people of different faiths can live together peacefully, however, you must admit, that in looking in the world this is the exception, Israel comes to mind.

When laws are made, that is when, the dirt hits the fan. The Holy Bible is banned in public school libraries, pray is banned, sex education is taught including masturbation, and homosexuality, evolution is taught as a fact, causing millions to lose their faith. Atheism was a treatable mental illness until 15 years ago. You say, there is no conspiracy against Christians? What would it take for you to say that someone somewhere is plotting to destroy Christian ethics in the U.S.? Do you really think Christians did all of this. How is it that Holy Russia, was a Christian nation, and overnight it become the godless killers of 60 million people? 150,000 Russian Orthodox priests were killed. Do you think, there could have a godless communist plot to take over Russia? We now have the same preconditioning happening here, but I am supposed to turn a blind eye. This is ATS for heavens sake! Of course, maybe only certain kinds of conspiracies are allowed here? Eh, comrade Bryd?

Bryd, please do not take this to harshly as I am only trying to make a point.

Originally posted by Balaams donkey
Of course, maybe only certain kinds of conspiracies are allowed here?

Yeah! I posted two of them...

Dark Secret Conspiracy -
www.belowtopsecret.com...

and

Conspiracy: God has an attitude problem. -
www.belowtopsecret.com...

But they got bumped to Faith, Spirituality & Theology on Below Top Secret because they were preachy? What the? I cited who was holding the conpiracy, motive, and how it functions. Somebody explain this please?

This, my friends, is the Anti-Christian Conpiracy right here!



[edit on 13-4-2005 by saint4God]

Donkey,

I read your tirade to byrd. Sorry, I have to disagree with many of the tenets of your thought. Many words that I read are from the thinking and teachings of man, and not Christ himself.

That is the big sticking point of today. So many want Christ to have said something that he did not. Christ was not an "anti" person. Christ was and is love. Love of ALL. To deny this is denying the Lord.

The way you prattled off your list of supposed Godless subsets like so many others do in the name of "God" has a chilling effect on the true followers of Christ and God's love.

That is the true conspiracy.

I found the anti-Christian conspiracy, and it were me.

The good folks at godhatesfags.com came and picketed outside city hall while I went in to get my marriage license. They said such nice things. Like, "Matthew Shepherd burns in Hell" and "Fags Die." Their warm, loving, Christian attitude was instrumental in helping me solidify some of my religious thinking.

Of course, I have to give credit to Jerry "God allowed the attack on the World Trade Center because America has embraced homosexuality" Fallwell and Pat "Women are skipping church to become lesbian witches" Robertson. Without them, I would have never understood what Jesus meant when he said, "The greatest commandment is that you should love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your mind. And the second is like it, love your neigbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

There are good Christians. People who live a faith of radical love that humbles me and reminds me that angels do, indeed, travel among us in disguise. There are also, however, such Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, etc.

I think what you term an anti-Christian conspiracy comes from the combination of the arrogance of many Christian institutions in the West and the pure, vile, cruelty of some of the most visible Christian apologists who insist on imposing their faith and its morality on people who have no desire to share it. It isn't so much a conspiracy as it is a natural reaction of people who wish to be free to practice their own faith (or lack thereof) in peace.

Didn't Gandhi say, "I am a great admirer of your Jesus. It is His followers who give me cause for concern."?

"So we're looking for something new to be said. Any takers?"

Who's we?

Originally posted by Balaams donkey

When laws are made, that is when, the dirt hits the fan. The Holy Bible is banned in public school libraries, pray is banned, sex education is taught including masturbation, and homosexuality, evolution is taught as a fact, causing millions to lose their faith.

Might as well jump back in.

Balaams donkey, Those laws protect you also! Lets say prayer was allowed in public schools Do you want me leading your children in Resh at noon?

Here's the noon Resh.

Greet the Sun, facing South, giving the sign of his grade. And let him say in a loud voice:
Hail unto Thee who art Ahathoor in Thy triumphing, even unto Thee who art Ahathoor in Thy beauty, who travellest over the heavens in thy bark at the Mid-course of the Sun.
Tahuti standeth in His splendour at the prow, and Ra-Hoor abideth at the helm.

Or what if your kids came back from school greeting people with

Do what thou wilt is the whole of the Law.

You see laws like that are not a conspiracy against Christians, they are meant to protect your beliefs as well as mine. Frankly if the teaching of sex ed makes your kids lose their faith, YOU did not do your job as a parent right!

Originally posted by Balaams donkey
Byrd,

Well, what you have said it true many people of different faiths can live together peacefully, however, you must admit, that in looking in the world this is the exception, Israel comes to mind.

When laws are made, that is when, the dirt hits the fan. The Holy Bible is banned in public school libraries, pray is banned, sex education is taught including masturbation, and homosexuality, evolution is taught as a fact, causing millions to lose their faith. Atheism was a treatable mental illness until 15 years ago. You say, there is no conspiracy against Christians? What would it take for you to say that someone somewhere is plotting to destroy Christian ethics in the U.S.? Do you really think Christians did all of this. How is it that Holy Russia, was a Christian nation, and overnight it become the godless killers of 60 million people? 150,000 Russian Orthodox priests were killed. Do you think, there could have a godless communist plot to take over Russia? We now have the same preconditioning happening here, but I am supposed to turn a blind eye. This is ATS for heavens sake! Of course, maybe only certain kinds of conspiracies are allowed here? Eh, comrade Bryd?

Bryd, please do not take this to harshly as I am only trying to make a point.

I think there are some good points here but , as for the school thing perversion of our childrens minds with things we ourselves dont want them to learn through school but by talking to parents.

The fact faith was taken out of the public forums such as school, libraries and some other places just allows the perversion to go on without the kids knowing that their is another choice ,,,,,what happened to teaching abstinence and only having sexual contact for the purposes of procreation, all of these important moral guide lines are gone and now the free condom and the free veiwing of something that amounts to nothing less than soft porn sometimes is raining supreme...no wonder why teen pregnancy is the number one problem after suicide and drugs....these kids are being taught things that they shouldnt even be concentrating on till after they get out of school and have jobs.

Originally posted by curiousity


"So we're looking for something new to be said. Any takers?"

Who's we?

I suppose the trinity of me, the mods and the TAC. Believe it or not Moderators occasionally moderate discussions. If we didn't we'd be called Warners or Thread Movers, but since we aren't I'm moderating a bit when I see fit.

Moderators are posters too, so it get's confusing, but I usually try to make it obvious when doing one or other even with subtle differences like Off Topic headers, blue lights and not including my sig.

It's possible I didn't make that obvious before, for which I apologize. It's also possible you know all this and are just being a jerk with the "who's we" bit. But I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt as just being curious, Curiousity.