How Does ATS Feel About This Sanders Medicare Plan

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Xcalibur254

For the same reason they rank countries like Cuba higher (or lower) in infant mortality. It's all in how those things are quantified and defined. That changes depending on who's doing the reporting and how a metric is counted. Some things individual countries report (the US counts any birth as "live" so long as the baby takes a single breath, but other countries don't count it as live until the baby has lived for a whole year; as you can see, that might make a difference in infant mortality) other things are defined in ways that make some countries look better than others ...

First rule of stats is that you can make a number say anything you want so long as you know how to design the question you're asking.

But he still can't explain why all the rich people in those countries come to the US to get life saving treatment...

I saw a study recently looking at cancer survival rates and the US was way ahead because we have the means and incentives to detect earlier and more effective treatment.

I suspect people with basic and routine healthcare are satisfied in those countries but getting a physical is a different ball of wax vs say being treated for cancer.

a reply to: Middleoftheroad

Exactly, that was what I loved about his spending plans last time around:

I WANT TO SPEND THIS MUCH MORE, BUT I DON'T CARE THAT WE'RE ALREADY THAT MUCH IN DEBT BECAUSE OF THE SPENDING WE ALREADY DO! HERE'S HOW MUCH IN NEW TAXES WE'LL NEED TO RAISE THAT MUCH MORE ...

I was thinking if you want to raise that much more why don't you use it to pay off what we're already in the hole for before doing a bunch of new spending that the government will inevitably run over-budget on?

a reply to: Middleoftheroad

So my taxes are gonna go through the roof to pay for healthcare for all and I still have to pay money for it? Nah I'm good.

yep
it is why none of the dem presidential candidates will release any of the information on how their grand scheme will be funded

nobody votes for that kind of tax increase/wealth transfer

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: BrianFlanders

"Right to die"

Oh, you didn't kill me! *I* killed myself. So there!

Good lord, that sounds like a bad breakup. What if you don't want to commit suicide for the good of the state, comrade?

I don't GAF about the good of the state. I care about people. I don't like to see people being extorted and tormented and suffering pointlessly at the end of life. It's not for the good of the state. The state will weasel out of it's responsibilities when the chips are down. I know that. The people who depend on the state will then be left to fend for themselves in a system that chooses not to give a # about them if it doesn't get paid. The doctor who can't pay his mortgage is the doctor who doesn't GAF about you if he isn't getting paid.

The insurance mafia is just as corrupt and rotten as any state. You're damn right I'd rather die when my time comes than let those monsters feed on me my whole life on the promise that they'll keep me barely alive for a few more years

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

What do I think?

I think that politicians will say anything to get elected, including pure lies.

My second question would be, where is the rest of the money coming from?
Of course it would be either more taxes, or employers would have to pay, so
in essence we would be paying the same amount, if not more for worse service.

a reply to: Edumakated

Thing is that those other countries could likely have the same survival rates as the US except government care makes getting most of the basic tests and treatments for things like cancer a lot like renewing your driver's license and standing in line at the DMV only instead of long, long minutes, you're talking about long, long months of wait time.

Cancer takes big advantage of long, long months. It's that advantage of timeliness that makes cancer survival such a big thing in the US.

a reply to: BrianFlanders

Such a system pretty becomes one that's used to the advantage of the state though.

I will just add some people that have spent a decade in Canada and the USA have told me if you have to pay for private insurance in America verses the higher taxes in Canada it's about a wash and balances out. BUT.....the difference is better health care in America, in Canada in some parts of the country people are really struggling to find a personal GP, yes they can get health care from the ER and walk in clinics 100% free, but the GP's are disappearing fast, pursuing more lucrative careers in the specialized fields of medicine or moving to America to make 10 times what they make in Canada.

From my perspective neither system as they sit is ideal.

originally posted by: jjkenobi
How that is made up for on the back end is a mystery Socialists can never solve.

Except for the entire rest of the world with socialized healthcare. It's already been solved.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

BUT.....the difference is better health care in America, in Canada in some parts of the country people are really struggling to find a personal GP

I've mentioned this before, as I have lived in many countries. People go crazy and tell you that you are wrong even though they have never used a different health care system.

Yes it is expensive in America. But I have one question for everyone................


If you had Coronavirus where in the world would you want to be treated.... I know my answer!!!

"medicare for all" may sound good, but Medicare as it is now leaves much to be desired.
Lasy July my husband was bitten by a tick, and almost died . It left him with a "rare disorder", Chronic ITP. So weekly bloodowork, bone marrow biopsy, massive steroid doses for months so far (and is now being treated for Diabetes from the damn steroids), and weekly visits to the hematologist /oncologist. The drugs he has injected are considered "chemo" (biologics to stimulate platelet production) , and Medicare pays some.... but $50 for the doc visit weekly and the shots are $1600 a week (after what medicare pays which is minimal). Now the shots don`t seem to be working, so she wants to start him on a pill at $330 a pill.

If we had regular insurance, we could get the pills for a $50 copay thru the manufacturer. But that program does not apply if you are on Medicare. Makes no sense at all.

So medicare for all could be an absolute disaster for folks like our family. I wpuldn`t want anyone to have to go thru what we are. Ever.

originally posted by: JAGStorm
If you had Coronavirus where in the world would you want to be treated.... I know my answer!!!

Certainly not America, and I'm an American with private health insurance. Even with my insurance, a week stay in a hospital with isolation conditions would likely lead to me filing bankruptcy. People without insurance will be turned away to possibly die at home or in the streets. Most people won't even go to the doctor for these symptoms, myself included, because even with insurance a doctors visit and prescriptions is not a cheap endeavor. People go to work sick here because getting fired for taking off sick is a very real possibility.

America's system is the perfect storm to brew a massive outbreak.

People without insurance will be turned away

one of the most uninformed, ridiculous things I have seen posted here today
You should read up on the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act it has only been a thing in the usa since 1986.

a reply to: LordAhriman

Certainly not America, and I'm an American with private health insurance. Even with my insurance, a week stay in a hospital with isolation conditions would likely lead to me filing bankruptcy

I'll take bankruptcy over being dead!

a reply to: LordAhriman

We'll make sure to send you to China then. Their health system seems to be right on top of things.

originally posted by: shooterbrody
one of the most uninformed, ridiculous things I have seen posted here today
You should read up on the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act it has only been a thing in the usa since 1986.

I know all about it. I am involved in, and will one day inherit, a healthcare facility. A cough and a fever isn't covered under that act, and those are the initial symptoms. By the time it's life threatening, it's too late.

a reply to: LordAhriman
Obviously you do not as any individual who goes to an er and requests must receive a medical screening examination to determine whether an emergency medical condition exists.
So yes, a cough and a fever is covered.
If an emergency medical condition exists, treatment must be provided until the emergency medical condition is resolved or stabilized.

no one gets turned away

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: LordAhriman

We'll make sure to send you to China then. Their health system seems to be right on top of things.

If I get it, I'll do what I do. I didn't miss an hour of work last January when I had H1N1. After 4 days of it I went to a walk in clinic after work and was diagnosed. Went back to work the next morning.

If I wake up one day with the early symptoms of coronavirus, I'll chug down some ibuprofen and orange juice and go to work. If it kills me, I'll die either at work or home. Most Americans will do the same.

originally posted by: shooterbrody

So yes, a cough and a fever is covered.
If an emergency medical condition exists, treatment must be provided until the emergency medical condition is resolved or stabilized.

no one gets turned away

This is true, but all that has to happen for them to send you home is to get rid of your fever. Two of those $15 tylenol, and you're good to go.

a reply to: LordAhriman

This is true

thanks

we have laws that are intended for everyone to get treated here no matter if you have insurance or not