How Does ATS Feel About This Sanders Medicare Plan

a reply to: Charliebrowndog

Exactly.

It'll be like Obamacare. They have no incentive to just get rid of it because it's now a voter issue. It's broken, so they can *fix* it. Nevermind they broke it to begin with.

Additionally, it'll be like education. Teachers are now government employees and massive vote constituency, and education is a massive vote issue just *because* government runs it. It also sucks and sucks hard. There is no incentive to fix it, and less incentive to allow kids to escape it which is why you see such resistance to things like voucher programs and homeschooling. Every child that is trapped into walking through the public school system door represents tax money for schools and salary for teachers.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

billions no longer need to be spent keeping an industry thriving that doesn't actually provide a service.

Wait! You say you want to take the free stuff they had for years, and actually provide a service with all that wasted money?

Folks!

Those evil Leftists don't want us to have free stuff on their tap! Who knew? Surprising, innit? Who could argue with that logic, any takers?

No?

Ok, back to the feelings then.

*waits for DBCowboy*

a reply to: shooterbrody

I said getting rid of the for-profit health insurance industry. By getting rid of the middle man that needs to take their own significant piece of the pie, healthcare providers can still be compensated the same as they are now, even if there's technically less money going in to the healthcare industry.

The truth is most healthcare providers would love to get rid of the for-profit insurance industry. It makes it harder for them to do their job properly and it cuts in to their own income. Hell, it's pretty much impossible for the traditional pharmacy to exist because in many cases the money they get from insurance companies is less than they pay for the drugs themselves. That's why most pharmacies are either in grocery stores or have diversified beyond simply dispensing.

This is just another fine example of a politician missing the entire point of a problem.

Why don't they focus on the root of the issue?
That is the cost of healthcare, not insurance coverage.
Do something to lower the expense.

Limit lawsuit payouts.
Regulate the pharmaceutical companies.
Fix the real issues.

The problem is (as we saw with Obamacare) politicians can lie. Remember how good Obamacare sounded before Obamacare happened? Obama was the guy who wasn't going to force you to buy insurance. Until he got elected. Then, suddenly, we all woke up one morning and found there was a new law called Obamacare that said you had to buy insurance or get punished.

How does that happen? I know I'm not the only one who remembers him (plain as day) saying "No individual mandate". Oh, I know how it happens. He lied. It's that simple. Bernie Sanders can lie too. They all can. They all do. There's no point in voting. These people lie for a living. They will look you right in the eye and lie to you and do the exact opposite of what they said they were going to do. And when you complain about it, everyone will turn on you because once an election is over, they don't need your vote anymore and they don't care what you think.

No matter what kind of "healthcare plan" (the words alone should be enough to convince you they plan to screw somebody) is put into place, you cannot get blood from a stone. Even if you could trust them to not be evil, they would still have to get money from somewhere. And guess what. It doesn't come out of nowhere. Sooner or later that devil is gonna come back around and bite you in the ass.

No. The problem is this -

1. People get sick. They just do.

2. The older you get, the more likely it is you're gonna get sick and the sicker you're gonna get when you do.

3. The sicker you are the more it's gonna cost. Not even the government wants to keep paying through the nose when someone is basically nearing the end of life. They don't care if you can live ten more years in a wheelchair with a tube going up your nose. Once they realize you're costing them more than they want to spend, they will cut corners on your care and send you packing.

What we need is the right to die. That is the only way to take ownership of your life away from the healthcare mafia.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

I said getting rid of the for-profit health insurance industry.

we have and have had government run health insurance for a long time now since 1965
were it a success the market would have dictated a shift TOWARDS that type of program
that has not happened
wonder why?

Any new healthcare plan will still have to pass congress and the senate, so even if Sanders WERE to be elected, he would not be able to fulfill his campaign promise.
Congress is too busy hating Trump to work on issues that desperately need to be addressed, and while their hatred of Bernie isn't even close to that of Trump, they still won't work with him.....unless there's plenty of graft in it for their pocket books.
The Republicans had two years to work on health care and border security but did nothing. We can vote for all the hope and change we want, but if neither party is willing to work with our duly elected POTUS we won't see much progress. Now the question is 'Why doesn't either party want a solution? What's in it for them to keep the status quo?'

a reply to: PublicOpinion

What free stuff?

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Im on Medicare, I have no other insurances except vision and dental the wife and I.

Paying the required my-share 20℅...is 1,000 times cheaper than 1st satisfying any huge deductibles or getting penalties....and
having monthly premiums! We dont...

Ex: I just cut a check on a $12,000 hospital surgery bill...it was in full-$212.38 total (TWO HUNDRED TWELVE DOLLARS, THIRTY EIGHT CENTS.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

This sounds like another health care plan. I remember obama saying something to the effect: " If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor." or this one " You copays won't go up."

a reply to: Xcalibur254

No, no, no single player still has the middle man -- government.

Getting rid of the middle man means *you* pay the provider directly like you do with any other good or service provider.

a reply to: shooterbrody

I'm sure it has nothing to do with the millions of dollars the health insurance industry pays to lobbyists every year.

Ask yourself this, if our current healthcare model is so much better than universal healthcare, why has no country with universal healthcare even considered switching back to the for-profit insurance model?

One issue I see is the tax code everybody will be trying to show how little they actually make, especially the most wealthy. Every bracket will be filled with households trying to show the lowest household income possible, even more so than they do now. Inevitably the wealthy can do this easier than the middle and lower classes and sooner or later that extra burden falls on them. Not to mention now all of a sudden somebody in the healthcare field doesn't make as much as they used to. It will obviously kill the insurance industry, where do those people go to work? Immediate unemployment significantly lower wages for all healthcare professionals, and the burden of paying to hit the middle-class cause that's the most people you can take monies from to pay for everything.

a reply to: BrianFlanders

"Right to die"

Oh, you didn't kill me! *I* killed myself. So there!

Good lord, that sounds like a bad breakup. What if you don't want to commit suicide for the good of the state, comrade?

a reply to: ketsuko

The middle man is no longer taking a significant cut of the profits though. They're taking enough to keep the above system funded but anything left is to pay the providers.

ETA: I've said in the past that I would have no problem with a healthcare system similar to the Netherlands. The ACA actually provides a pretty decent framework to build off. The biggest difference between what we have now is that insurance companies would no longer be able to operate as a for-profit industry. You would still have your pick of company but they would have to offer policies that provide basic care at cost.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: ketsuko

The middle man is no longer taking a significant cut of the profits though. They're taking enough to keep the above system funded but anything left is to pay the providers.

That is so naive.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

I'm sure it has nothing to do with the millions of dollars the health insurance industry pays to lobbyists every year.

lol
mkay
they are paying to make their own more expensive?
really?
their investors would love that kind of math......

Ask yourself this, if our current healthcare model is so much better than universal healthcare, why has no country with universal healthcare even considered switching back to the for-profit insurance model?

because their socialist over reaching governments won't allow them to?
you know once a government gets a hold of something they ALWAYS allow the people to do what they want.....
pffft
really?
also when have we ever let any other nation dictate what we do?
f them
time.com...

Chavez also fixed prices on basic foodstuffs, from coffee to cookies. When it became unprofitable for Venezuelan companies to make such things, Chavez simply used oil money to import them from abroad. Winning election after election, he went on to expropriate hundreds of private companies, from sugar plantations to dairy farms. And to stop people from dumping their bolivars, which were losing value, he restricted who could buy dollars and fixed the rate.

this model does not work
even when it stares you in the face you refuse to see the results

do we need to make changes to our healthcare system
yes
is government run healthcare the answer
no

a reply to: shooterbrody

If the universal healthcare model doesn't work, why are countries like France and Japan consistently ranked as the best healthcare in the world by the WHO and the US is down with countries like Iran?

One issue I see is the tax code everybody will be trying to show how little they actually make, especially the most wealthy. Every bracket will be filled with households trying to show the lowest household income possible, even more so than they do now. Inevitably the wealthy can do this easier than the middle and lower classes and sooner or later that extra burden falls on them. Not to mention now all of a sudden somebody in the healthcare field doesn't make as much as they used to. It will obviously kill the insurance industry, where do those people go to work? Immediate unemployment significantly lower wages for all healthcare professionals, and the burden of paying to hit the middle-class cause that's the most people you can take monies from to pay for everything.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

How Does ATS Feel About This Sanders Medicare Plan

Without reading the replies, something about communism, muh guns, muh taxes, and some ranting about how this could never work even though we’re the only country in the developed world that doesn’t have anything like this.

I like to call it Schrodingers America. The best and greatest country in the world and at the same time a place so screwed up that it couldn’t do what 70% of the rest of the world was able to pull off.