Corona Virus Updates Part 2

originally posted by: primalfractal
A few videos on masks and decontamination.

There were some other ones I watched that basically said to spray yourself all over with rubbing alcohol when you come home. Remove ppe, then wash hands.

An extra step would be to take off clothes, put them in bleach/antiviral water, then shower.

Coronavirus: what type of mask should you get
youtu.be...

Coronavirus mask fitting, pressure checks
youtu.be...

Four step removal of PPE
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Military mask decontamination
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Military decontamination protocol
youtu.be...

Great post! Please consider reposting it in the thread I started about Pandemic Prep.

We do a fit test yearly and its not the kid of thing you slap on and wade into sick people with. There are different sized and if you are Beardy McBeardface you are SOL

a reply to: musicismagic

Am glad you recognized it was just some friendly elbowing.


Have appreciated your posts, especially with the news from Japan in this thread.
Thanks.

( PS: Nestlé is E.V.I.L. Don't let them fool you with their seemingly delicious chocolate ! LoL ! )

Moreish on topicish:
CBC News: 'Walls closing in': Surviving quarantine on a luxury cruise ship.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Advantage

Not so sure about that. It hit the soldiers in their camps. So it traveled along the routes of WWI.

Look up the data about it. Second wave was after our military said we were safe. That it had only infected a few soldiers. Then it exploded in our population.

originally posted by: ItsOkToBeHappy
Most of us on some level definitely secretly want something really bad to happen, but that's not because we're bad people. It's because that is human nature. We all have these conflicting thoughts that we are not proud of, you included.


a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Speak for yourself. I'm a parent. I got over it. Now I prepare in case because the last thing I want is for something bad to happen to my precious small human.

a reply to: Advantage

Governments did that because they did not want to cause panic. Plus, they had no idea what they were really dealing with. They continued to ship troops out of heavily infected camps too because the front lines needed them even though about 2/3 would arrive at their destination needing to be carried off.

a reply to: ketsuko

Among a multitude of other things. I realized this weekend that more than a few materials I regularly use for fly tying are made in China. Dropped a couple founding fathers at the tying shop for the materials I know I'll burn through over the summer.

Priorities...

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Advantage

Governments did that because they did not want to cause panic. Plus, they had no idea what they were really dealing with. They continued to ship troops out of heavily infected camps too because the front lines needed them even though about 2/3 would arrive at their destination needing to be carried off.

Of course. Second wave isnt only about mutation.. its about how it hits populations due to those populations actions. It really doesnt matter if it was to dispel panic or if they didnt know what they were dealing with.

A longer incubation time mixed with a wider variety of response in those infected might be some of what we're missing.

From The Lancet:

In the ongoing outbreak, assuming an R of 2·2, as reported by Li and colleagues,1 then just over half of infections must be prevented to bring R below 1. This might be expected to be challenging if 2019-nCoV can be transmitted when infectors are not symptomatic.

However, there is little evidence to suggest presymptomatic transmission of 2019-nCoV.2 Even if 20% of infections are occurring because of presymptomatic infectors (a level roughly halfway between the respective values for severe acute respiratory syndrome and influenza viruses,3 which is likely to be an overestimate), then 80% of infections would be due to symptomatic infectors. Because only slightly more than half of infections need to be prevented to bring R below 1, effective isolation of symptomatic hosts alone should be sufficient to prevent sustained outbreaks of 2019-nCoV outside China.

Of course, detection and isolation of symptomatic hosts is not always carried out effectively, and detection is challenging when symptoms are mild. Therefore, efforts to counter presymptomatic transmission might sometimes be merited. However, when implementing such measures (eg, the UK's isolation of passengers returning from Hubei, infected or not), the substantial cost to individuals who might not be carrying the virus should be considered carefully. With fast isolation of symptomatic individuals alone, including self-isolation of those with mild symptoms, sustained outbreaks outside of China can be prevented.

We really need to know how transmissible this is in the presymptomatic phase.

I can't help but think that the cruise ship in Japan is a prime candidate for a scientific control.

a reply to: primalfractalDefinitely looks like a different disease.. thank god.

I hope they get whatever it is under control soon.

originally posted by: jadedANDcynical
A longer incubation time mixed with a wider variety of response in those infected might be some of what we're missing.

From The Lancet:

In the ongoing outbreak, assuming an R of 2·2, as reported by Li and colleagues,1 then just over half of infections must be prevented to bring R below 1. This might be expected to be challenging if 2019-nCoV can be transmitted when infectors are not symptomatic.

However, there is little evidence to suggest presymptomatic transmission of 2019-nCoV.2 Even if 20% of infections are occurring because of presymptomatic infectors (a level roughly halfway between the respective values for severe acute respiratory syndrome and influenza viruses,3 which is likely to be an overestimate), then 80% of infections would be due to symptomatic infectors. Because only slightly more than half of infections need to be prevented to bring R below 1, effective isolation of symptomatic hosts alone should be sufficient to prevent sustained outbreaks of 2019-nCoV outside China.

Of course, detection and isolation of symptomatic hosts is not always carried out effectively, and detection is challenging when symptoms are mild. Therefore, efforts to counter presymptomatic transmission might sometimes be merited. However, when implementing such measures (eg, the UK's isolation of passengers returning from Hubei, infected or not), the substantial cost to individuals who might not be carrying the virus should be considered carefully. With fast isolation of symptomatic individuals alone, including self-isolation of those with mild symptoms, sustained outbreaks outside of China can be prevented.

We really need to know how transmissible this is in the presymptomatic phase.

I can't help but think that the cruise ship in Japan is a prime candidate for a scientific control.

I think IT WAS a scientific control.
I guarantee that petri dish was used to monitor how the virus spreads and to develop protocols.

I am not saying it was deliberately spread, but that the timing was fortuitous for those fighting the outbreak.

originally posted by: ItsOkToBeHappy
Most of us on some level definitely secretly want something really bad to happen, but that's not because we're bad people. It's because that is human nature. We all have these conflicting thoughts that we are not proud of, you included.


a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Pretty absurd statement.

I cannot fathom, if the day arrives, that I have to teach my children to become the exact opposite of what they are being taught now, you know, humanity.

Just because someone tries to prepare, does not mean that they want disaster to happen.

Clinical characteristics of 2019 novel coronavirus infection in China, Pdf

Lymphopenia was observed in 82.1% of patients.

On admission, 82.1% and 36.2% of patients had lymphopenia and thrombocytopenia, respectively. Overall, leukopenia was observed in 33.7% of patients.

Severe cases had more prominent laboratory abnormalities (i.e., leukopenia, lymphopenia, thrombocytopenia, elevated C-reactive protein levels) as compared with non-severe cases.

Consistent with two recent reports [1,12], lymphopenia was common and, in some cases, severe.

Ongoing efforts are needed to explore for an effective therapy (i.e., protease inhibitors, remdesivir, β interferon) for this emerging acute respiratory infection.

It is common for viral infections to affect leukocytes and lymphocytes counts as the body does engage the disease. How these levels respond for those in the recovered stage in the longer term is what needs to be monitored for similarities to HIV. HIV does have a reputation as a long term disease, it takes a while for the infection to take hold and grow to a stage where immune suppression becomes a significant risk factor.

2019-nCoV is still an new disease with much unknown. We are still in the early stages of this disease and it will take time for the long term effects to surface. For some good news with these potential risks, a lot of work has gone on with HIV treatment over the years with good treatment plans available for those infected with compromised immune systems.

On a personal note I am preparing myself to be infected at some stage. I either get over it and get on with life or I don't. Some people do recover so it is not an absolute death sentence. Trying to limit exposure and using safe working practices is wise.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: ketsuko

Among a multitude of other things.

I realized this weekend that more than a few materials I regularly use for fly tying are made in China. Dropped a couple founding fathers at the tying shop for the materials I know I'll burn through over the summer.

Priorities...

Yeah we have not seen the ripple effect yet. Lots of basic goods like say N95 masks are made there. Right now with all of those factories down, middlemen are going through inventory they already have in stock. That being said the ChiCom government want to keep the fiction of business as usual so some factories like say at a prison are still up and running

a reply to: ItsOkToBeHappy
No,I don't think like that. There is something wrong in your head I think. Sorry.

originally posted by: FredT

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: ketsuko

Among a multitude of other things.

I realized this weekend that more than a few materials I regularly use for fly tying are made in China. Dropped a couple founding fathers at the tying shop for the materials I know I'll burn through over the summer.

Priorities...

Yeah we have not seen the ripple effect yet. Lots of basic goods like say N95 masks are made there. Right now with all of those factories down, middlemen are going through inventory they already have in stock. That being said the ChiCom government want to keep the fiction of business as usual so some factories like say at a prison are still up and running

Factory closures are playing havoc with international firms, even giants like Apple, which has temporarily shut offices and production; many other U.S. businesses reliant on Chinese suppliers are facing production and sourcing headaches of their own now, which may only accelerate the so-called decoupling between the U.S. and Chinese economies.

foreignpolicy.com...

I thought the "decoupling" between the US and Chinese economies part of the quote was interesting.

a reply to: Advantage

Nice find. The article was quite interesting especially the economic changes within China that will make it more difficult to rebound than it was after SARS.

It also highlights how little I know or understand the internal component of their economy especially the part of the migrant workers which here generally applies to agricultural types.

A message out of Wuhan. This guy is super pissed off:

originally posted by: EndtheMadnessNow
Stefan Molyneux's hypothesis scenario & news analysis on the virus implications that may lead to a major collapse (economic & social).

The Truth About the Coronavirus - COLLAPSE?!
It's 55 min video. Starting at ~40:00 he gives an important history lesson comparison.

Great post great video, bookmarked that

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Power_Semi

Either one works so long as you use it properly.

Have you ever had to use hand sanitizer consistently? It dries your skin out terribly badly. If it was just a layer of goo lying on your skin, the moisture wouldn't be leached away like it is.

Yeah, and dry skin often cracks and bleeds, leaving you with a direct pathway for a virus into your system.

When I used to work with animals, I was washing my hands constantly all day long, just with soap and water. My hands would dry up and bleed between the fingers. Maybe I need to buy a few more packs of rubber gloves before they are all gone too.

originally posted by: FredT
a reply to: Advantage

Nice find. The article was quite interesting especially the economic changes within China that will make it more difficult to rebound than it was after SARS.

It also highlights how little I know or understand the internal component of their economy especially the part of the migrant workers which here generally applies to agricultural types.

Waaaay back somewhere I linked an article frm India.. whos crops rely on a lot of chinese migrant workers to harvest. Harvest is in a few months for several crops like Coffee and etc. They now told all from China.. dont bother coming here, you wont be employed. Now they dont have the huge work force needed to deal with the harvests. Its these things and more... like the devastation to the healthcare system that people dont typically consider.