Corona Virus Updates Part 2

originally posted by: SpartanStoic
Annnnnnndddddd Shanghai is on lockdown.

Taiwan News

Bonus confirmation that Chongqing is also.

My 1000th post!

How do you know it is your 1000 post?

a reply to: pasiphae

yeah... possibly longer when you think people can carry it without showing symptoms. People may be cleared only to get ill days later as has happened already.

a reply to: Power_Semi

I realize the number infected and original post mentioned the additions. I was just quoting the news on the quarantine expiration date

originally posted by: BowBells
a reply to: pasiphae

I believe they ARE removing all the sick passnegers that have tested positive and taking them to hospitals. At least I think that's what I read?!

I think I read that about ONE of the ships but it doesn't seem to be the same for all of them. I hope that's what they are doing but I have a bad feeling about how many of them are going to eventually get sick and if the incubation period is 3 weeks instead of 2..... and add in that the tests aren't 100% positive....

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

That's what China looks like all right. Except that scenario has yet to show itself in the other countries where the virus has jumped the borders. We even have some limited chains of transmission in other countries, and still not the China Syndrome.

Don't get me wrong everyone is freaking out because of what's happening in China. Clearly something there has allowed this thing to get massively out of control, so we all need to be on high alert because it can clearly happen ... but it hasn't.

So ... What did you do, China? What did you do?

originally posted by: Oppenheimer67
Interesting stats in a new paper. Seems more non-smokers are effected than smokers or ex-smokers. It's not peer reviewed yet, but looking at basic stats and demographic should be safe enough.

85% of patients were non-smokers. Both non-smokers and smokers seem to go on and and develop (or not) in similar ways. You might expect the opposite to be true, but this shows similarity to Spanish Flu. 'Cytokine Storm' has also been seen in some cases, as spoken about earlier (not this paper), again, similar to Spanish Flu.

www.medrxiv.org...

The paper is talking about lots of stuff, but the data I'm talking about can be found on page 21.

Funny enough I was going to menton about smoking. Maybe the smoke can help kil the virus off and stop it from spreading in the body?

A school in Southampton uk has been closed due to coronavirus fears, letter from headteachers reads :

"I am sorry to inform you that a family with children at the prep and senior departments who have recently travelled to the region affected by coronavirus have developed symptoms similar to those presenting with the coronavirus, and having been checked by medical professionals at Southampton General Hospital have been placed in isolation."

www.dailyecho.co.uk...

originally posted by: pasiphae
I'm concerned that the reason they are quarantining people on the ships is because they know something the public doesn't. It makes no sense to let them all infect each other and that's a pretty logical conclusion. I would think they'd take the sick ones off and put them in REAL quarantine. That would make more sense.... so since that's not being done I'

Comparing this to the seasonal flu is really downplaying it. 40K people don't get sick in one major city, like say Houston, in the span of 2 weeks. 800 people don't die in a major city in 2 weeks. I know the flu is bad but it's not THIS level bad.

As far as the numbers going down... there's just not a physical way for them to test more than a certain number of tests each day. They don't have the man power. The UK is planning on being able to do 1000 a day.... I can't imagine how Hubei could even test more than 4K in a day so we really don't have a clue what the real numbers are. We also know the tests aren't 100% accurate.

Lastly, the man who traveled to Shanghai.... he was there Jan 20-23 and at that time only 40 cases were reported so he probably thought there wasn't much risk. He wound up infecting multiple people. I think the incubation period can be 3 weeks for some and it's possible some could spread it even longer than a 3 week time frame.

You imagine how unlucky that Brit guy must have been to get infected in a place where so few had tested positive. The chances are astronomically small. He also had to travel to and from all of these places.

What aim saying is wherever he picked it up the virus be far more widespread than known or admitted AND if he has spread it so easily there is a more than even chance he infected many in the airports and on the planes etc. Again, my opinion only, but this monster is on the loose and gathering strength.

originally posted by: CrazeeWorld777

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: celltypespecific

This is why I have said on other threads, and continue to say here, I just cannot comprehend the logic of using a ship as a quarantine. Ships are a floating incubator for the transmission of viruses and disease! They always have been. This isn't a secret, how many times have we all seen MSM news stories about large segments of a cruise ship coming down with some ailment aboard a ship? All of the mechanical (HVAC) systems are connected, all of the water systems are connected and all of the sanitary systems are connected.

It's only a matter of time before every single person aboard that floating death trap becomes infected with this virus. They quarantined the ship based on a single handful of possible cases, and in the process they've sentenced 3,700 other people to their fate.

And, while this situation may be 'interesting' in some twisted clinical sort of way (i.e. calculating actual survival rates in a closed environment), at the same time it is disturbing beyond description! I understand the need to perhaps quarantine persons (in general), but I absolutely do NOT understand, nor do I accept, quarantining individuals in an environment where they will almost certainly contract the virus! Again, a ship is a floating incubator for the spread of viruses like this. If you need to quarantine someone, do it in an environment which is suitable for preventing the further spread of the virus...NOT onboard a ship where you have limited trained staff, limited medical facilities and an environment just ripe to spread disease!

A "Quarantine" must also meet stringent legal and ethical criteria. Based on the limited news reports we are receiving, I do not believe these criteria are being met. Specifically:

(note: underlines by me)

Guidance on when and how human rights can be restricted to prevent the spread of infectious disease is found in The Siracusa Principles, a non-binding document developed by the Siracusa International Institute for Criminal Justice and Human Rights and adopted by the United Nations Economic and Social Council in 1984.[32] The Siracusa Principles state that restrictions on human rights under the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights must meet standards of legality, evidence-based necessity, proportionality, and gradualism, noting that public health can be used as grounds for limiting certain rights if the state needs to take measures ‘aimed at preventing disease or injury or providing care for the sick and injured.’ Limitations on rights (such as quarantine) must be ‘strictly necessary,’ meaning that they must:

- respond to a pressing public or social need (health)
- proportionately pursue a legitimate aim (prevent the spread of infectious disease)
- be the least restrictive means required for achieving the purpose of the limitation
- be provided for and carried out in accordance with the law
- be neither arbitrary nor discriminatory
- only limit rights that are within the jurisdiction of the state seeking to impose the limitation.[33]

In addition, when quarantine is imposed, public health ethics specify that:

- all restrictive actions must be well-supported by data and scientific evidence
- all information must be made available to the public
- all actions must be explained clearly to those whose rights are restricted and to the public
- all actions must be subject to regular review and reconsideration.

Finally, the state is ethically obligated to offer certain guarantees:

- Infected people will not be threatened or abused.
- Basic needs such as food, water, medical care, and preventive care will be provided.
- Communication with loved ones and with caretakers will be permitted.
- Constraints on freedom will be applied equally, regardless of social considerations.
- Patients will be compensated fairly for economic and material losses, including salary.[34]

Wiki Source

Bottom line...I have a major problem with these forced quarantines (in general), and a super major issue with the shipboard quarantines!! For some, they are a death sentence whereas treated differently they may not be.

Well said.

I mentioned on a earlier post, that the original 6 who had the virus should have been taken off the ship and quarantined seperately to the other 3,700 odd. It's a bit ridiculous to keep all 3,700 on board when only 6 had it at that stage.

Well to be fair only 6 were known to have it, but that wasn't 6 after all 3700 were tested, it was 6 after maybe 15 people were tested.

If it spreads as per UK no.3 i.e. easily and to 10+ then they're doomed on that boat.

But those that weren't doomed now will be because they weren't move into proper isolation.

originally posted by: ARM1968

originally posted by: pasiphae
I'm concerned that the reason they are quarantining people on the ships is because they know something the public doesn't. It makes no sense to let them all infect each other and that's a pretty logical conclusion. I would think they'd take the sick ones off and put them in REAL quarantine. That would make more sense.... so since that's not being done I'

Comparing this to the seasonal flu is really downplaying it. 40K people don't get sick in one major city, like say Houston, in the span of 2 weeks. 800 people don't die in a major city in 2 weeks. I know the flu is bad but it's not THIS level bad.

As far as the numbers going down... there's just not a physical way for them to test more than a certain number of tests each day. They don't have the man power. The UK is planning on being able to do 1000 a day.... I can't imagine how Hubei could even test more than 4K in a day so we really don't have a clue what the real numbers are. We also know the tests aren't 100% accurate.

Lastly, the man who traveled to Shanghai.... he was there Jan 20-23 and at that time only 40 cases were reported so he probably thought there wasn't much risk. He wound up infecting multiple people. I think the incubation period can be 3 weeks for some and it's possible some could spread it even longer than a 3 week time frame.

You imagine how unlucky that Brit guy must have been to get infected in a place where so few had tested positive. The chances are astronomically small. He also had to travel to and from all of these places.

What aim saying is wherever he picked it up the virus be far more widespread than known or admitted AND if he has spread it so easily there is a more than even chance he infected many in the airports and on the planes etc. Again, my opinion only, but this monster is on the loose and gathering strength.

Yes I agree. What happened with him is a massive red flag that this is really bad.

originally posted by: checkmeout
Forgive me for being thick here but if the Singapore super spreader/normal spreader passed this on asymptomatic. He even went to the pub the day before presenting to A&E doesn't this have to be airborne? Ie he infected those people in France before a cough/sneeze?
I hope I'm being dumb .
Also any updates on those at Arrowe Park. Why did someone want to leave? Just frustration or something else?

No. It doesn't have to be airborne in quite the same way everyone is freaking out about. It isn't the measles. If it was, their would be major, ongoing outbreaks in Washington state, Illinois, Arizona, and California ... more places in the US. Germany would be on fire and so would France. The UK would have its massive outbreak. All of Asia would be a raging brushfire of disease.

You're forgetting fecal/oral and similar routes. Even if this thing can pass airborne under the right circumstance, it's limited by its size and other factors. It's bigger danger is that it can survive for several days on surfaces. Public restrooms are going to be the worst places because of fecal/oral transmission. Someone drops an infected load and the water droplets from flushing will kick up infected particles that will settle all over the place for people to get on their hands and then into their eyes, nose, mouth.

Go out and look at the contamination from fecal bacteria that happens in restrooms of any kind to give you some idea of how this works.

Understand I'm not saying this cannot pass airborne, but that I don't think it's the main source of transmission.

originally posted by: GoldGlobal
a reply to: musicismagic

sorry, cant get link to work!
www.cnn.com...

6 hr 29 min ago
The Japanese government is considering testing all Diamond Princess passengers
From CNN’s Yoko Wakatsuki and Mick Krever in Tokyo

A Japan Coast Guard' patrol boat, left, is brought alongside the cruise ship Diamond Princess to take passengers tested positive for coronavirus to hospitals off Yokohama on Wednesday, February 5.
A Japan Coast Guard' patrol boat, left, is brought alongside the cruise ship Diamond Princess to take passengers tested positive for coronavirus to hospitals off Yokohama on Wednesday, February 5. Hiroko Harima/Kyodo News via AP
The Japanese government is considering testing all passengers aboard the Diamond Princess cruise ship, which remains docked under quarantine off the coast of Yokohama, regardless of whether they are symptomatic.

“We are aware that there are voices (saying) that all the passengers and crew members must get the test on the coronavirus when they disembark,” said Katsunobu Kato, Japanese minister of health, labor, and welfare.
“We are taking a close look whether we can conduct all the tests.”
So far, authorities have been prioritizing testing passengers and crew members who feel unwell. The ship was placed under quarantine on February 4 after a former passenger tested positive for the Wuhan coronavirus. The quarantine is scheduled to end on February 19.

A total of 70 people have tested positive for the Wuhan coronavirus on board the ship, which is carrying more than 3,700 people, including crew and passengers.

Hey GG no problem. I was just wondering where the info came from. Tomorrow around 10 am Tokyo time we'll have an update on what procedures are being taken to remove more infected people from the boat.
For the last 2 removals, 10 passengers each. Probable reason. qualified hospital to take in that type of infectious disease.
My recent update that I just posted is current other then how many are actually got the virus.

a reply to: CrazeeWorld777

Except ... if this a bug that targets ACE2 receptors, smokers have more of those, and in China roughly half the male population smokes.

Everyone earlier in these threads was freaking out about how crazy deadly this thing seemed to be to Asian males, so much so they were speculating that it might have been targeted at them. How quickly we all forget in our fear.

originally posted by: pasiphae
I'm concerned that the reason they are quarantining people on the ships is because they know something the public doesn't. It makes no sense to let them all infect each other and that's a pretty logical conclusion. I would think they'd take the sick ones off and put them in REAL quarantine. That would make more sense.... so since that's not being done I'

Comparing this to the seasonal flu is really downplaying it. 40K people don't get sick in one major city, like say Houston, in the span of 2 weeks. 800 people don't die in a major city in 2 weeks. I know the flu is bad but it's not THIS level bad.

As far as the numbers going down... there's just not a physical way for them to test more than a certain number of tests each day. They don't have the man power. The UK is planning on being able to do 1000 a day.... I can't imagine how Hubei could even test more than 4K in a day so we really don't have a clue what the real numbers are. We also know the tests aren't 100% accurate.

Lastly, the man who traveled to Shanghai.... he was there Jan 20-23 and at that time only 40 cases were reported so he probably thought there wasn't much risk. He wound up infecting multiple people. I think the incubation period can be 3 weeks for some and it's possible some could spread it even longer than a 3 week time frame.

This should answer your question:

Read No. 1
www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: musicismagic

I'd have a lot less issue with how this whole cruise ship situation was being handled if there were a team of infectious disease experts on board to render aid and care, if there were means to make sure proper medicines and supplies were being brought in a distributed, and this whole thing were being studied while it developed.

This should be a team effort by all the countries who have passengers involved. The Japanese government as the country who is "hosting" the liner currently and the company that owns the liner should be facilitating.

Let's face it. Since China isn't likely to be easy to accommodate or easily accommodating, a secondary WHO/CDC team ought to be in on this one as a second sizable reservoir of patients that can be studied and that can provide data on this thing.

twitter.com...

Chinese National Health Commission has changed their definition of #WuhanCoronavirus "confirmed case" in their latest guidelines dated 7/2. Patients tested positive for the virus but have no symptoms will no longer be regarded as confirmed. This inevitably will lower the numbers.

They sure set a new standard of a new low.

a reply to: Gin

It also makes it easier for them to raise the rates of cure too.

Their previous standard was that someone had to test free of all virus in order to be listed as cured.

a reply to: SpartanStoic

Damn - Beijing and Shanghai have

On Monday morning, the Shanghai city government announced that "closed community management" (小區封閉管理) has been implemented in the metropolis' 13,000 residential complexes. It added that most of these communities have also implemented tight restrictions on entering and exiting their facilities.

If a person refuses to accept hospital quarantine, home quarantine, and other epidemic prevention measures, the public security organ shall severely punish those who commit acts against the administration of public security, according to the law.

Its really odd, this morning there were reports that people were told to return to work this morning.

Authorities in major centres like Beijing, Shanghai and Shenzhen have given the green light for businesses to resume operations, but advised them to remain flexible

www.scmp.com...

On the same day, strict rules are put in place for Beijing and Shanghai?

It's like their own news conflicts itself - depending who they believe the audience is.

a reply to: Foxtree

It's half term in England soon. I wonder whether it will mean the normal week gets extended by the time they are all due to go back. It's a developing situation.

A health centre in Brighton is closed and one of the infected is a dr. Nothing to worry about there.

These wealthy folks who can afford skiing holidays eh

Does anyone know how this virus is going to thrive once we reach the summer and higher temperatures in western part of the hemisphere?